Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"ArizonaViking" said:
Last summer, my 20 yr. old grandson and I were repairing my daughter's deck (his mother) replacing some boards and railings. I handed my grandson a tape measure and asked him to measure out some lengths. He told me he didn't know how to read a tape measure. I said, "Seriously, I have a 20 yr. old high school graduate grandson attending college on an academic scholarship and you can't read a goddamn tape measure?".
Things like this when I grew up learning such as construction, wiring, plumbing and auto repairs. Todays' kids are lost in my opinion. Now ask them something they can figure out on their cellphone or computer and you have a genius.
Who's fault is that? Yep, parents. Get your kid off the video games and cell phone. Demand eye to eye contact and teach them these things and they will learn just as fast as we did. But that rarely happens because most parents are also busy on the cell phone and video games.
Don't blame the kids, blame the generation that raised them and allowed our school systems to become the shit they are.
That's the point I am trying to make to all those that point fingers to the external. Look internal and you will find this generation is a result of "you reap what you sow"!
Between video games, cell phones/social media, and drugs among the generation before the result is what you see. Many of these kids we are talking about live with one parent or a grand parent because of drugs. Many have problems at birth and far more than the generations before have learning disabilities. The rate of autism and ADD is out of control. I guess it is up to our educational system and teachers to also do social work and family therapy.
Well I'll tell you right now, many 'nuclear' families (both parents) are doing a great job of fucking up their kids by making them entitled, spoiled fucking rotten and completely dependent on them. They take care of everything for their 'babies'. Don't want a second of sadness, boredom or not giving them their every whim. This is what is causing the high rates of depression and anxiety, along with social media. These brats don't handle anything for themselves, so even the most mundane situations they cannot cope with.
Yes, it is the parents creating brats no doubt.
Back to education system which has implemented inclusion in our public school system. Remember all these kids with problems are in the same classes as the average/upper intelligence kids and the teachers have to instruct all of them equally. Not really possible but we can continue to pretend. Guess which parent(s) call and complain about the teachers? The ones whose kids on a learning plan that the teacher has to follow to the T or get the school sued, which happens every year.
Teachers are fleeing the profession because of all the pressure to fix every kids problems. We might have to revert back to home schooling or charter with all the shortages which may have some impact, I don't know for sure?
I wouldn’t try to blame society for some kid not being able
to read an analog clock or a tape measure or using a caliper that was made in
the 80s or 90s. These are all things you
learn when they come up in your life for the first time, and it’s not really
their fault it hasn’t come up in their life yet or hasn’t been important enough
to bother learning. I think the real question
would be how long does it take them to learn these new to them tools. You should be able to teach a kid how to use
a tape measure in under 10 minutes, and then they’ll have it understood from
then on. If that kids too dumb to learn
how to use a tape measure because they never learned fractions, but they still show
adequate intelligence in other areas, then I think you can blame the school
systems.
Quote: @"medaille" said:
I wouldn’t try to blame society for some kid not being able
to read an analog clock or a tape measure or using a caliper that was made in
the 80s or 90s. These are all things you
learn when they come up in your life for the first time, and it’s not really
their fault it hasn’t come up in their life yet or hasn’t been important enough
to bother learning. I think the real question
would be how long does it take them to learn these new to them tools. You should be able to teach a kid how to use
a tape measure in under 10 minutes, and then they’ll have it understood from
then on. If that kids too dumb to learn
how to use a tape measure because they never learned fractions, but they still show
adequate intelligence in other areas, then I think you can blame the school
systems.
Yep. If they've never used one, how would they know? Like a rotary phone. Or a level. Or how to change a tire.
I think some parents have expectations that at certain ages, kids should 'know' things intrinsically. If you haven't taught them, how would they?
I don't care if it's Yale or Gogebic Community College. I've long been an opponent to grading on a curve. If the academic standards are set, expectations are met, people learn what is being taught, then they should all be rewarded with an appropriate result. I totally agree with the Yale approach, with caveats, of course.
Quote: @"medaille" said:
I wouldn’t try to blame society for some kid not being able
to read an analog clock or a tape measure or using a caliper that was made in
the 80s or 90s. These are all things you
learn when they come up in your life for the first time, and it’s not really
their fault it hasn’t come up in their life yet or hasn’t been important enough
to bother learning. I think the real question
would be how long does it take them to learn these new to them tools. You should be able to teach a kid how to use
a tape measure in under 10 minutes, and then they’ll have it understood from
then on. If that kids too dumb to learn
how to use a tape measure because they never learned fractions, but they still show
adequate intelligence in other areas, then I think you can blame the school
systems.
Agree, except fractional measurements, the imperial system is only used in three countries, US, Liberia and Myanmar. FWIW
This may not go over real well, but Ive taught for 35 years at a public high school, I can honestly say....
Kids are great.
They care about the same thing we did in high school....friends, music, sports, driving, and the weekend. Most dont give a damn about the content - what they do care about is trying to find positive relationships. Kids dont care how much you know....until they know you care.
For many kids school is the most stable part of their day. dysfunctional relationships with a parent, guardian, sibling, girl/boyfriend, unrealistic expectations (Grades, sports aspirations) getting into the “best” college, parental facebook boasting.....forget about that crap. Ive seen too many Vals and Sals burned out / drop out of college stressed beyond measure...... let them be kids and not grow up too fast. They will have the rest of their lives to work hard.
Parents? Frankly Id rather have a parent that cares about their kid, than one that doesnt.
Another problem is teachers themselves - Too many teachers take themselves / content too seriously. Theyre kids, have fun with them, smile, joke, be interested in what they are interested in - is there a personal experience that relates to their interest....If not, have THEM teach YOU about their interests. Teachers need ro do more LISTENING, than talking.
Sure you read about a “bad teacher” or those with conduct violations, but most teachers care about your kids as much, or more than the parents. Ive had wonderful experiences in my career. Genuinely blessed to have made a difference for many kids, who still keep in touch with me. Frankly, I’d rather work with a teenager than most adults.
Kids are awesome, and teachers need to be grateful for the parents who do indeed care about their kids progress.
Quote: @"ArizonaViking" said:
Last summer, my 20 yr. old grandson and I were repairing my daughter's deck (his mother) replacing some boards and railings. I handed my grandson a tape measure and asked him to measure out some lengths. He told me he didn't know how to read a tape measure. I said, "Seriously, I have a 20 yr. old high school graduate grandson attending college on an academic scholarship and you can't read a goddamn tape measure?".
Things like this when I grew up learning such as construction, wiring, plumbing and auto repairs. Todays' kids are lost in my opinion. Now ask them something they can figure out on their cellphone or computer and you have a genius.
Well that's just it, isn't it? Times change, and so do the tools we use. I grew up knowing how to set the clock on a VCR, balance a checkbook, and install rabbit ears with just the right amount of tin foil attached to effectively tune in certain TV stations...but I sure as hell couldn't tell you how to tack up a horse, like my father and his father before him.
I laughed at this because just recently my son showed me just how clueless he was with a tape measure. But both he and his sister do things with their phones that I can only marvel at. And when they're my age they will be laughing at their kids who are clueless with their phones because something will come along to render them obsolete.
The kids are alright. Granted, screen time is addictive, and so focus and distraction are, and will continue to be, big problems. But honestly, in terms of survivability in the modern world, I'd put Gen Z up against my generation any day of the week, many of whom can't find a batshit conspiracy theory they won't fall for.
Quote: @"BigAl99" said:
@"medaille" said:
I wouldn’t try to blame society for some kid not being able
to read an analog clock or a tape measure or using a caliper that was made in
the 80s or 90s. These are all things you
learn when they come up in your life for the first time, and it’s not really
their fault it hasn’t come up in their life yet or hasn’t been important enough
to bother learning. I think the real question
would be how long does it take them to learn these new to them tools. You should be able to teach a kid how to use
a tape measure in under 10 minutes, and then they’ll have it understood from
then on. If that kids too dumb to learn
how to use a tape measure because they never learned fractions, but they still show
adequate intelligence in other areas, then I think you can blame the school
systems.
Agree, except fractional measurements, the imperial system is only used in three countries, US, Liberia and Myanmar. FWIW
Personally I think it's completely absurd that the US is using the Imperial system.
As a non-educator who hasn’t really had much experience with
this, I do tend to believe the reports I have heard that Covid restrictions
were pretty severely stunting how much progress those kids made, and there’s going
to be that segment of young adults that have some catching up to do. Outside
of that, I’m not really convinced that people are getting dumber. Historically, people on average have been
getting smarter over time since we been measuring IQ. I don’t think I necessarily believe too much
that it’s going the other way. I think
that we as a society, have been using automation and outsourcing, and this has removed
from the market a lot of the mid-tier of jobs and I think this has changed a
lot of how we perceive things. I think a
lot of our jobs are now either super low skill jobs (the 80%) or very high skill
jobs (the 20%). So a mid intelligence
person is now either doing the same low skill job as low intelligence people and
blending in with them or are struggling at their high skill jobs. Also, we’ve shifted as a society to where we
no longer value skilled employees and try to retain them, so we’re constantly in
a cycle of bringing in a new person, living with their mistakes as they learn the
ropes and then we either let them go or underpay them and they leave. So we’re getting people for the dumbest
portion of their careers since we aren’t reaping the benefits of their experience. Employers seem to want to have people that
are already skilled, but everything is so specialized that it’s really hard to
find the person that can hit the ground running. I think in the past, people seemed smarter
because over time they could gain experience and were better workers, and now
the only people that seem smart are the really high intelligence people that
can come in and learn a new system really quickly.
I do think that GenZ and later are going to have struggles
with confidence and social interactions.
We’ve out so much of our life to machines and software, that people end
up doing much less face to face interactions and I think soft skills don’t
really get much practice. I’ve also
heard reports that GenZ is just less secure that whatever they’re doing is correct
and spends more time asking for confirmation on what they are doing, and I
think that makes sense to me.
Quote: @"Vikergirl" said:
The issues with diversity have stemmed from systemic racism. Why access to education is denied to certain groups (this is still happening) and there are biases in the education system that impact the students and outcomes, there is going to be a difference. There are still many barriers for diverse students through the educational process and into their careers
What groups are being denied education based on race? Asians?
I know this is coming from a good place VG so I'll be a lot gentler than the race hustlers who use systemic racism to divide people. As many on this board know, I spent 40 years volunteering at shelters in the inner city...first in Chicago and than in Madison. I've worked with, befriended and helped a whole lot of POC in my lifetime. I've attended their funerals, weddings, high school graduation, etc. You can talk about these things or go out and do something about it. I've helped with homelessness, substance abuse, mental health issues and abuse. I've been fortunate in life and it's only right to help others achieve their dreams in whatever form that takes. Race relations were steadily improving almost continuously throughout the years...until one thing happened. President Obama was elected by a broad swath of the electorate. It should have been transformative for race relations but the community organizer and Alinsky disciple Obama couldn't help pitting blacks and whites against each other for political gain. If people disagreed with Obama he would often invoke race as the reason. Obama would jump into racially charged local events often on the wrong side of the actual facts (Harvard Law Professor, Trayvon, Ferguson). And now we've evolved to the narrative that police are the biggest reason for fear in the inner city....or you know everything you need to know about a person simply by the color of their skin......or reparations. People think its progressive to have Black only facilities or to judge people by the color of their skin. If you view everything through a racial prism...all you'll see is racism. How very 1950's of them.
So...what's the net effect with all of this? The Blacks in the inner city are taught that the police are their biggest threat. They're also taught that White people can't be trusted. It has become increasingly difficult to assist Black families unless you are Black. And the pretense of reparations? It's like Santa Claus.
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