Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Isolationists were screaming loudly in the 30's too...Imagine if they got their way?
Like it or not, its a global economy and that dictates an awful lot from now on.
I would have sided with an isolationist dogma in the 60's and in regards to Vietnam - unfortunately they got neutered by Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon.
![[Image: eyJpdSI6ImE1YzQ5ZGQ1NDg1YzdhYzU2ODlhZDU3...iOjR9.webp]](https://images.outbrainimg.com/transform/v3/eyJpdSI6ImE1YzQ5ZGQ1NDg1YzdhYzU2ODlhZDU3YjIxZDIzNTBkZDhjNjdmNWU1Yjc5MmRjYzMyNTM5Yjc1YzQ3Y2U4MmIiLCJ3IjozMDAsImgiOjIwMCwiZCI6MS41LCJjaCI6LTk0OTYzNTYwOCwiY3MiOjAsImYiOjR9.webp)
If you listen to RFK Jr, the Kennedy bros wanted nothing to do with Vietnam, and nobody is saying isolationism, but its high fucking time other countries start donating blood and money to this fucking global police force that it takes to defend this global economy, and when its time to kick some ass, lets cut this bull shit feel good crap out. The Hamas terrorists need to be eradicated like the vermin they are, I dont need to hear about their rights or any such shit. They raped and killed women and children, they have no rights IMO. If Isreal want to go it alone then I say let them take the gloves off and stay out of their way. Its sad that Palestinian civilians will suffer, but thats the cost of war sometimes.
You and I are actually in violent agreement about NATO and others shouldering more of the load.
Hamas is hiding behind the civilians they govern and that is an atrocity in and of itself. It will absolutely cause more civilian casualties.
At some point, the talk has to get serious about a Palestinian homeland in the West Bank/Gaza. But that time looks even further out on the horizon,
Lots of people in the IDF/Intelligence and Netanyahu govt will have their days in spotlight and have some spraining to do.
This was a massive failure on all their part.
The Israelis pulled out of gaza almost 20 years ago, immediately hamas moves in and somehow its Isreal that is the bad guy? I'm sure there's been some shit along the way, but hamas exists for 1 thing and that is to kill jews. Maybe the rest of the Muslim countries in that area need to step up and clean up the terrorist shit that seems to rule most of those counties. I dont understand how Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, but its core countries seem to be dominated by pieces of shit.
I also don't understand how progressives keep trying to defend the terrorists yet try to be pro gay, trans, and all sorts of other things that would get somebody tortured or killed by those they supposedly support.
There is no defending what Hamas did. But...
Israel is at fault for expansion of settlements and more recently Netanyahu has done even more to throw fire on the situation.
Even the Israelis themselves are deeply divided over his extreme policies.
I come from a split Jewish/Lutheran household. And trust me, its been drilled at me since I was a toddler that Israel has every right to exist in safety and peace.
But the Palestinians deserve a homeland of their own, it should not be governed by terroritsts and they need to acknowledge that Israel needs to be left alone and in peace as well.
Personally I support the eradication of Hamas at this point in time - Hezbollah as well. The collateral damage and human suffering of whats happening today (and in the following weeks) is incredibly sad to witness.
Gaza is now a huge humanitarian crisis.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Isolationists were screaming loudly in the 30's too...Imagine if they got their way?
Like it or not, its a global economy and that dictates an awful lot from now on.
I would have sided with an isolationist dogma in the 60's and in regards to Vietnam - unfortunately they got neutered by Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon.
If you listen to RFK Jr, the Kennedy bros wanted nothing to do with Vietnam, and nobody is saying isolationism, but its high fucking time other countries start donating blood and money to this fucking global police force that it takes to defend this global economy, and when its time to kick some ass, lets cut this bull shit feel good crap out. The Hamas terrorists need to be eradicated like the vermin they are, I dont need to hear about their rights or any such shit. They raped and killed women and children, they have no rights IMO. If Isreal want to go it alone then I say let them take the gloves off and stay out of their way. Its sad that Palestinian civilians will suffer, but thats the cost of war sometimes.
You and I are actually in violent agreement about NATO and others shouldering more of the load.
Hamas is hiding behind the civilians they govern and that is an atrocity in and of itself. It will absolutely cause more civilian casualties.
At some point, the talk has to get serious about a Palestinian homeland in the West Bank/Gaza. But that time looks even further out on the horizon,
Lots of people in the IDF/Intelligence and Netanyahu govt will have their days in spotlight and have some spraining to do.
This was a massive failure on all their part.
The Israelis pulled out of gaza almost 20 years ago, immediately hamas moves in and somehow its Isreal that is the bad guy? I'm sure there's been some shit along the way, but hamas exists for 1 thing and that is to kill jews. Maybe the rest of the Muslim countries in that area need to step up and clean up the terrorist shit that seems to rule most of those counties. I dont understand how Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, but its core countries seem to be dominated by pieces of shit.
I also don't understand how progressives keep trying to defend the terrorists yet try to be pro gay, trans, and all sorts of other things that would get somebody tortured or killed by those they supposedly support.
The way that I understand it, which is half-baked at best,
is that Israel funded Hamas for years as a method to prevent legitimate Palestinian
groups from coming to power and challenging Israel. Similar to the way the US has funded dictators
and terrorist groups around the world to harass our “enemies” and then having
to fight them later on. I think the
theory is that if you fund a bunch of groups that are causing enough chaos and
division that it prevents the people of that region from being able to create a
nation state that can actually challenge you.
Like you could ask yourself, would it be beneficial for the CIA to fund
the cartels in the Americas as a means of preventing those countries from becoming
stable and rising in power? It’s
probably not beneficial for most of the people in our country and their
countries, but does it benefit a small group trying to maintain power over the
region? The people that run a lot of
these countries aren’t really that concerned if some number of people die, as
long as they themselves maintain power and wealth.
Regarding progressives, much of progressive ideology, is
purely related to supporting the victim and stopping the oppressor. I don’t think it gets much beyond that. You just narrow the scope until you get a clearly
defined victim and a clearly defined oppressor and rally around that. I imagine that if Israel stopped oppressing
Palestine, then their narrative would shift to how to get Palestinians from
oppressing their own people.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Isolationists were screaming loudly in the 30's too...Imagine if they got their way?
Like it or not, its a global economy and that dictates an awful lot from now on.
I would have sided with an isolationist dogma in the 60's and in regards to Vietnam - unfortunately they got neutered by Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon.
If you listen to RFK Jr, the Kennedy bros wanted nothing to do with Vietnam, and nobody is saying isolationism, but its high fucking time other countries start donating blood and money to this fucking global police force that it takes to defend this global economy, and when its time to kick some ass, lets cut this bull shit feel good crap out. The Hamas terrorists need to be eradicated like the vermin they are, I dont need to hear about their rights or any such shit. They raped and killed women and children, they have no rights IMO. If Isreal want to go it alone then I say let them take the gloves off and stay out of their way. Its sad that Palestinian civilians will suffer, but thats the cost of war sometimes.
You and I are actually in violent agreement about NATO and others shouldering more of the load.
Hamas is hiding behind the civilians they govern and that is an atrocity in and of itself. It will absolutely cause more civilian casualties.
At some point, the talk has to get serious about a Palestinian homeland in the West Bank/Gaza. But that time looks even further out on the horizon,
Lots of people in the IDF/Intelligence and Netanyahu govt will have their days in spotlight and have some spraining to do.
This was a massive failure on all their part.
The Israelis pulled out of gaza almost 20 years ago, immediately hamas moves in and somehow its Isreal that is the bad guy? I'm sure there's been some shit along the way, but hamas exists for 1 thing and that is to kill jews. Maybe the rest of the Muslim countries in that area need to step up and clean up the terrorist shit that seems to rule most of those counties. I dont understand how Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, but its core countries seem to be dominated by pieces of shit.
I also don't understand how progressives keep trying to defend the terrorists yet try to be pro gay, trans, and all sorts of other things that would get somebody tortured or killed by those they supposedly support.
There is no defending what Hamas did. But...
Israel is at fault for expansion of settlements and more recently Netanyahu has done even more to throw fire on the situation.
Even the Israelis themselves are deeply divided over his extreme policies.
I come from a split Jewish/Lutheran household. And trust me, its been drilled at me since I was a toddler that Israel has every right to exist in safety and peace.
But the Palestinians deserve a homeland of their own, it should not be governed by terroritsts and they need to acknowledge that Israel needs to be left alone and in peace as well.
Personally I support the eradication of Hamas at this point in time - Hezbollah as well. The collateral damage and human suffering of whats happening today (and in the following weeks) is incredibly sad to witness.
Gaza is now a huge humanitarian crisis.
wasnt Israel leaving Gaza and a couple parts of the West Bank sufficient for a homeland for the Palestinians? My understanding is that all of Gaza was left to the Palestinians, and the West Bank was broken into 3 parts, 1 stayed Israeli as it was theirs long ago and they had legal documents to show ownership ( mostly private house units ) another part was largely palestinian and was given to them, and the 3rd part is jointly managed by both gov'ts. The west bank doesnt sound like it has near the issues, so the problem the way I see it isnt Israelis vs Palestinians, its radical muslim terrorists against Israelis. ( Hamas in the south and Hezbollah in the north ) Again, I am quite sure that Netanyahu has pulled some shit, but how much is in response to terrorism, vs just trying to be a dick?
I actually find the history of that part of the world fascinating, much more so than that of Europe and Asia, and lets be honest, we dont really have history in North America, compared to the middle east, we have last week.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Isolationists were screaming loudly in the 30's too...Imagine if they got their way?
Like it or not, its a global economy and that dictates an awful lot from now on.
I would have sided with an isolationist dogma in the 60's and in regards to Vietnam - unfortunately they got neutered by Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon.
If you listen to RFK Jr, the Kennedy bros wanted nothing to do with Vietnam, and nobody is saying isolationism, but its high fucking time other countries start donating blood and money to this fucking global police force that it takes to defend this global economy, and when its time to kick some ass, lets cut this bull shit feel good crap out. The Hamas terrorists need to be eradicated like the vermin they are, I dont need to hear about their rights or any such shit. They raped and killed women and children, they have no rights IMO. If Isreal want to go it alone then I say let them take the gloves off and stay out of their way. Its sad that Palestinian civilians will suffer, but thats the cost of war sometimes.
You and I are actually in violent agreement about NATO and others shouldering more of the load.
Hamas is hiding behind the civilians they govern and that is an atrocity in and of itself. It will absolutely cause more civilian casualties.
At some point, the talk has to get serious about a Palestinian homeland in the West Bank/Gaza. But that time looks even further out on the horizon,
Lots of people in the IDF/Intelligence and Netanyahu govt will have their days in spotlight and have some spraining to do.
This was a massive failure on all their part.
The Israelis pulled out of gaza almost 20 years ago, immediately hamas moves in and somehow its Isreal that is the bad guy? I'm sure there's been some shit along the way, but hamas exists for 1 thing and that is to kill jews. Maybe the rest of the Muslim countries in that area need to step up and clean up the terrorist shit that seems to rule most of those counties. I dont understand how Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, but its core countries seem to be dominated by pieces of shit.
I also don't understand how progressives keep trying to defend the terrorists yet try to be pro gay, trans, and all sorts of other things that would get somebody tortured or killed by those they supposedly support.
The way that I understand it, which is half-baked at best,
is that Israel funded Hamas for years as a method to prevent legitimate Palestinian
groups from coming to power and challenging Israel. Similar to the way the US has funded dictators
and terrorist groups around the world to harass our “enemies” and then having
to fight them later on. I think the
theory is that if you fund a bunch of groups that are causing enough chaos and
division that it prevents the people of that region from being able to create a
nation state that can actually challenge you.
Like you could ask yourself, would it be beneficial for the CIA to fund
the cartels in the Americas as a means of preventing those countries from becoming
stable and rising in power? It’s
probably not beneficial for most of the people in our country and their
countries, but does it benefit a small group trying to maintain power over the
region? The people that run a lot of
these countries aren’t really that concerned if some number of people die, as
long as they themselves maintain power and wealth.
Regarding progressives, much of progressive ideology, is
purely related to supporting the victim and stopping the oppressor. I don’t think it gets much beyond that. You just narrow the scope until you get a clearly
defined victim and a clearly defined oppressor and rally around that. I imagine that if Israel stopped oppressing
Palestine, then their narrative would shift to how to get Palestinians from
oppressing their own people.
my understand on Israel funding Hamas is that it wasnt direct funding for the terrorist, it was allowing humanitarian money to be funneled through Hamas ( the defacto govt of gaza) for food and medical, the money was actually coming from Qatar as well as the UN and other humanitarian entities. I havent seen credible evidence of Israel funding them for military purposes. Considering its in Hamas's Charter that they exist to destroy Isreal. I understand the concept of the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but this seems a bit far fetched since Hamas has been attacking Israel since the mid/late 80s, maybe ahead of that time Israel helped them, but until that point Hamas wasnt a violent organization. Since Israel is about 20% muslim, is co-habitating the West Bank pretty nicely ( which isnt under control of Hamas ) I dont see the narrative that Israel is oppressing Palestinians, they are not allowing open ports, but that is to try and keep Hamas from getting more rockets and shit, which is also being done by Egypt to the south. I dont see a lot of support for the narrative that Israel is the prison guard since they have openly allowed humanitarian effort in the strip, they are working with the Palestinians in the West Bank, and they allow Palestinians to come from the strip into Israel for work. I concede that I dont fully understand the dynamic, but I think Hamas is the real monster here, both for Jews and Palestinian muslims alike, and the more that the narrative is allowed to focus on Israel, the more that feeds Hamas and their ability to terrorize Jews and imprison their own people to be used as human shields. all those Islamic terror cells seem to do the same thing, embed themselves into civilian shields so they are the victims when somebody retaliates.
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