OT: Tesla cuts Supercharger team

[StickierBuns]

They are...

My outlook for them is clouded by my personal affinity for their vehicles. I still contend they will survive, whether that is as an independent or not?

That is certainly debatable.

Many beautiful EVs out there: Rivian, Lucid, Polestar, etc. I had the opportunity to be on a Teams call with Polestar's Swedish executive team last year. Smart people.

[minny65]

2019 numbers: The United States provides a number of tax subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry. Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually.

I live in area where everyone drives a $60,000 + F150 etc, most don't need a truck that powerful but hey it's only 60 grand

I bought my 2014 Tesla used in 2018 at 40,000 miles for a total (delivered from Texas) $32,000. I did not buy it for "green" aspect that most are focused on. I bought it for the speed, looks - Model S P85 (still like this model style the best), and also the tech. I now have 138,000 miles on it and have not had to replace the brakes once - regenerative braking is a game changer in and of itself. Meanwhile my 3 ice vehicles go through brakes constantly. The overall maintenance on my Tesla has been minimal - total of $900 to replace the pop out car handles which is a common issue with the older models. No other maintenance other than tires which are the standard sport tires I use on my Infiniti. Meanwhile my Ford Explorer is in the shop right now needing a new exhaust system (2016) to pass inspection. No idea how much that is going to cost?

If my 2014 remains in very good condition which it is right now I would consider just replacing the battery once this one goes. They estimate around $15 grand right now but will come down from that. So, say my battery goes in a couple years and I basically have a brand-new car for $15 grand, don't think you can get an ICE for that.

I originally bought my Tesla for business/sales. I was getting a $375 car stipend plus monthly mileage which added another $300 plus. My car payment was $335 so I was making money driving my speedster Sure my 5-hour trips to Buffalo required some planning/stops to charge which is where I got all my paperwork and phone calls done. I was actually more productive

Right now, EV are a niche and a growing niche, but I also have ICE vehicles on hand.

Everyone gets in a bunch when they say one party is pushing something on us through green subsidies and that is why I posted the above quote. We subsidize the wealthiest industry in the world and no one blinks an eye.

[StickierBuns]

  

Everyone gets in a bunch when they say one party is pushing something on us through green subsidies and that is why I posted the above quote.  We subsidize the wealthiest industry in the world and no one blinks an eye.

Its a really good point. Nice add to the discussion.

I would say EVs are probably more precariously hanging in there because of the subsidies than most other companies (other than farming) that get them, but still a very solid point.

[Mike Olson]

My hope is more funding goes into Hydrogen. I was pretty excited about that at one time, but I dont see it anytime soon.

Bydrogen ain’t going to happen on a large scale and in order for it to work in the US it needs large adoption. Too easy dir most people (homeowners anyway) to just charge their car as we charge all of our other devices. 

Hydrogen DOES make sense for a lot of things. But fir the most part people that are amped for it is because they insist that their vehicle burn something. Even of they don’t really even understand the tech.

[Mike Olson]

China is helping with lower EV costs...Whether anyone is a fan of that (or not) I'm sure is all over the map.

I really like Rivian, I think they will be one of the "boutique brands" that will survive in the long-run. Fisker and a few others most likely wont.

I know BMW Neue Klasse BEV's (25/26 release) have been reported to have 1/3 more range and 30% quicker charging. Thats just one example of how the tech continues to advance.  I am sure its not long until the next gen Chevy Bolt is released.

Most Americans over-estimate the range they need imo. If you can charge at home you have most likely 80% of your needs being met.

Yeah china is making a $5000 ev that they will or have begun selling in Europe

[StickierBuns]

Yeah china is making a $5000 ev that they will or have begun selling in Europe

The thing that gets missed with many here in the U.S. is that Chinese companies don't need to make money, they just need volume. So if a Chinese EV manufacturer only makes a 2% gross margin, the government will subsidize them so they make 17% gross margin. Volume and output is what they are looking for.

[minny65]

Back to OP:

Where do most people charge their EVs? At home, 80% of the time. A Level 1 EV charger cord (a regular 110v you can plug into a normal outlet) can take from 11 to 40 hours to charge your car, depending on battery level. A Level 2 (much faster, probably 2-5 hours to charge depending) which can either be hardwired into your garage or you need a NEMA plug needs a 240v, 50 to 80 amp configuration. That's expensive and it depends where your electrical box is located. Cost can be anywhere from $1200 to $4000 to have done.
Cold weather impacts battery charge retention. Its incredibly hard to charge a battery in extreme cold efficiently and quickly.


Just sharing my 6+ years experience with my Tesla. I bought the home charger generation 2 from Tesla back in 2018 for $500. The electrical box charges 240v, 60amp was $500 so the home charging cost about a grand for me. Just last week I had to replace the generation 2 with a generation 3 that I got off Ebay for $350. Someone who is semi-handy and not afraid of electrical could have easily just converted the box from 2 to gen 3 but I hired an electrician and that cost me $250.

I charge at home 95% of the time now - no longer travelling for sales. The recommendation in cold/winter is to keep the car plugged in. Also you set the timer on the charge to run at the lowest rate which is probably 2-5am? I get a full charge to 80% recommended as well before I wake up and go.

I think many people without an EV like to hear about the problems and not the solutions. Maybe they just want to hear the worst stories about EV's to validate their thought process.

Like I said, I can't tell you how many people in my area have $60-70 grand Trucks, but a Tesla's price is too much or outrageous. I would say about 80% of the guys with the gas guzzling trucks don't need it in my area but they love their truck. They get about 15 per gallon. Then they will complain about subsidized gas prices when they made the decision to go with a 15mpg unnecessary truck.

Like I have said, Tesla's and EV's are a growing niche that I fully expect to continue to chip away at ICE as they improve. Right now, I think it is best to have an EV and Ice but I know many can't afford two vehicles. I absolutely love my Tesla, it has saved me a fortune compared to my ICE vehicles and currently at 138,000 and going strong. Just want some to see some positives from someone who has owned one for a while.

[medaille]

I think most of the pushback against EVs is just coming in rebellion to the implication that EVs are some sort of savior for the Earth with clueless politicians telling you that you and your evil automobile need to be replaced by 2030 with some sort of fancy newly manufactured model.

EV’s just haven’t been around long enough for regular people to have used them long enough. The Model 3 being “the affordable EV for the everyman” only came out in 2017. I go on autotrader and there’s only one Tesla available for less than $20k within 200 miles of me(metro MN) and it’s the only one with over 100,000 miles. The positive stories are mostly coming from people that are unrelatable to a lot of the population. In the same way that an 80,000 luxury truck is unrelatable to some people, an EV that’s only been purchased by well-to-do garage owning, new car buying suburbanites is probably just as unrelatable to a lot of people. I see a lot of EV’s on the road. I don’t know a single person who owns one. I’ve never seen a person plug one in in real life. I think for a long time now, we’ve known which ICE vehicles make sense for us and which ones don’t make sense for us, but EVs have different constraints, and we’re just learning about them in the last couple years.

I think we’re in a little bit of a lull now where all the early adopters have already bought them but aren’t ready to sell them and buy a new one, and the price conscious people can’t afford them.

[purplefaithful]

Whatever you do, if you're going to go BEV, I would strongly consider leasing. Regardless of the brand you are considering.

Tech is advancing too quickly not to. Then you have mfgrs like Tesla who have really hurt the re-sale of their cars with their pricing actions in the mkt.

We get Model 3 and Model Y owners walking in everyday wanting to go European. Their cars are so far underwater, its not funny. Now this is not everybody, but enough instances to make me not want to own a BEV of any brand instead of leasing it.

[JimmyinSD]