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Musk cut all 500 people in this group, including the senior director. So I worked in this EV charging space for just under two years, here's my two cents:

• The hype over EVs and EV charging was completely and utterly overblown. The consumer is not ready nor interested en masse for a more expensive car that gives them range anxiety (worry about charging their cars over longer trips). Now that worry is usually overblown as the vast majority of people that own EVs drive about 40 miles per day. But its the perception.
  
• 5 states in the U.S. account for almost 80% of all EV sales. Washington, California, Texas, Florida and New York. 
  
• Most of the EV fast-charging stations (Level 3) around the U.S. on highway rest stops do NOT get used. Yep, you keep hearing about how we need more to be where the country needs to be by 2030, but the dirty little secret is many are going unused.
  
• Local charging stations at Walmart, your local library, hotels, apartment complexes are broken easily and it takes forever to get them fixed. Customer frustration with broken public EV chargers is off the chart.
  
• The areas where public EV charging stations are popular have long lines with people waiting to charge. It can take 20-30 minutes to charger your car....what do you do while waiting? And when there are 5 chargers at a location, but 20 cars waiting, you can feel the frustration.
  
• Where do most people charge their EVs? At home, 80% of the time. A Level 1 EV charger cord (a regular 110v you can plug into a normal outlet) can take from 11 to 40 hours to charge your car, depending on battery level. A Level 2 (much faster, probably 2-5 hours to charge depending) which can either be hardwired into your garage or you need a NEMA plug needs a 240v, 50 to 80 amp configuration. That's expensive and it depends where your electrical box is located. Cost can be anywhere from $1200 to $4000 to have done. 
  
• Cold weather impacts battery charge retention. Its incredibly hard to charge a battery in extreme cold efficiently and quickly. 
  

I'm talking full EVs, not hybrids. The EV evangelists created this whole bubble of hype that was never accurate nor sustainable. I do like EVs, don't get me wrong. But when I hear the evangelists crow about 'Look at Norway! Their adoption is off the charts!' Norway has 5.5 million fucking people in the whole country. Europe has done a better job with EV charging but they've been doing it a lot longer and gas prices there have been nuts forever.

Yeah I think we settled into a niche where the appropriate usage for an EV is for someone to use as an around the home vehicle, where all the charging is done at home and any non-home charging is emergency only. I’ve never had an EV, but public charging sounds like a nightmare to me. I’m more of a late-adopter person, but at some point I could imagine getting an EV as a commuter vehicle to and from work, but only if there was a different gas vehicle for longer trips. I imagine that people using public supercharging are doing it the bare minimum as possible which probably cuts in on the profitability of that as a business model.

(05-01-2024, 09:49 AM)medaille Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I think we settled into a niche where the appropriate usage for an EV is for someone to use as an around the home vehicle, where all the charging is done at home and any non-home charging is emergency only.  I’ve never had an EV, but public charging sounds like a nightmare to me.  I’m more of a late-adopter person, but at some point I could imagine getting an EV as a commuter vehicle to and from work, but only if there was a different gas vehicle for longer trips.  I imagine that people using public supercharging are doing it the bare minimum as possible which probably cuts in on the profitability of that as a business model.

True EVs are great for 2nd cars that stay in a metro area most of the time. They are very reliable, less moving parts than gas powered vehicles. My son and his wife are going to be buying a 2024 Volkswagen ID4 this Friday, so they'll get the full federal incentive ($4000) and then Colorado's incentive ($7500) which the dealer takes right off the cost. They plan to use it around Denver metro, to Boulder and for his wife's commuting a few days into work (works remotely otherwise).

It's like...they truly won't learn that legislating behaviors is a bad approach.

The backfires from the vaxx debacle(s) will be continuing for decades, at least, and the discrediting of the FDA and the fed in general is likely unfixable.

Similarly, the spastic push with the EVs: "we've kinda got 'em dialed in and almost affordable-ish now, so...EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE ILLEGAL IN A FEW YEARS!!".

Meanwhile, charging stations are inconsistent, EV issues are growing (as any young product's issues will), the profit margins are still slim to nonexistent, the pollution required for the components and what-not combined with the added strain on the grids are all worrying...and so many of them are fugly by design...!

It has to meet a need. My brother has the Mercedes SUV electric and they love it. They live in Massachusetts and spend a ton of time traveling for hockey. Being in the upper east where everything is super close, it works well. It has far less value out here in South Dakota where winters are much colder and things are much further apart. My brother also has the Tesla power walls with solar and that is freaking awesome. Too bad it’s so expensive.

There are a fair number of EV’s where I live in Sioux Falls, but they are owned by people who have them as a second or third vehicle for around town. In my opinion, EV’s have much more value in the large cities where the distances are all within range as long as you plug in at night. It could certainly help the smog in these cities and would be good for everyone. They simply don’t have the same kind of value nationwide though. The United States is not Europe, it’s a massive country where individual states are larger than entire countries. Out west you have counties the size of eastern states. It just isn’t realistic to expect mass adoption when the technology is still limited.

Unfortunately, many of our politicians live in tiny little siloed worlds devoid of even a limited understanding of reality. Sadly, we all continue to pay for their ignorance.

I know many people with EV’s. Way over 30 people. And not one of them have a complaint or have ever had a problem traveling both locally or longer distances. They do say it is a bit different in how your travel long distance but also that it isn’t much different timewise either. There are a lot of people that parrot a lot of talking points because…reasons. 

I was plan ing on getting an EV truck when I replace my last vehicle, but an untimely head on collision last year (almost to the date) made my need to purchase a new truck sooner than what I would have liked. The EV trucks can’t do what I want them to do yet so I ended up with a Ram 1500 laramie 5.7 V8. Not exactly electric…. But it does have e-torque.

(05-01-2024, 05:07 PM)Mike Olson Wrote: [ -> ]I know many people with EV’s. Way over 30 people. And not one of them have a complaint or have ever had a problem traveling both locally or longer distances. They do say it is a bit different in how your travel long distance but also that it isn’t much different timewise either. There are a lot of people that parrot a lot of talking points because…reasons. 

I was plan ing on getting an EV truck when I replace my last vehicle, but an untimely head on collision last year (almost to the date) made my need to purchase a new truck sooner than what I would have liked. The EV trucks can’t do what I want them to do yet so I ended up with a Ram 1500 laramie 5.7 V8. Not exactly electric…. But it does have e-torque.

I picked up the same truck last year on a crazy good lease deal - Ram Laramie etorque (night edition) and I love it for towing our camper! Best towing “1/2 ton” I’ve ever owned. 

I’d love a Rivian, but it couldn’t quite handle the towing I need and again the original post discussion of issues with charging comes up. There are a few around town and I love the looks of them. If I didn’t tow heavy, it’s likely what I’d have.

It’s almost like people are coming to their senses. The geography and logistics of US make electric for all far far off.

Almost as a hobby, I used to sell BMW's after I retired from CPG.

So I have a car sales perspective on it - plus I'm a car nerd @ heart..Cars are a passion of mine.

For the US, BEV uptake will continue, but it will not be what the forecasts were even from 30 mos ago. There is actually decent growth in the segment - when you remove Tesla from the year on year math. Hyundai, Kia, VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB all gaining market share. It's inevitable when you used to own 75% of the mkt.

Most EV's are still too expensive for too many people who are just trying to make ends meet right now.

My prediction is PHEV mkt share will increase quite a bit in the US. Electric for shorter trips/Gas for the longer ones.

For our household? We absolutely will have a BEV in the near future. One car (suv) will remain ICE, but for the around town drives? BEV will be perfect and fun for us.