Misc. Thoughts: Chiefs

I don't disagree with the first 2 items.
But the zimmer guys?  How have we seen Rhodes deteriorate with no accountability?  He has not been as good since the rule changes last year took away a big part of his game.  But I don't recall him being targeted much against KC.  Elflein has been a good part of the resurgence of the offense.  He has a few bad plays in pass blocking, the defender got him jacked up and on his heels on one noticeable play.  But how many good plays did he have?

13-29 against teams with a winning record.  And yet folks get touchy when the Realists in this group call for change.

Minnesota will lose to a meh Cowboy team but will be in it most of the way and have a chance to win at the end. That seems to be good enough for a very surprising number of people here.

@"greediron" said:

I don't disagree with the first 2 items. But the zimmer guys?  How have we seen Rhodes deteriorate with no accountability?  He has not been as good since the rule changes last year took away a big part of his game.  

If he has not been as good since the rule changes and yet he still gets the majority of the playing time, does that mean he is not being held accountable or that Hughes is playing worse than Rhodes?

Also, seriously, I wanted to find the rules changes you are talking about.  Here are two articles on the rules changes the past three years:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27544137/everything-need-know-nfl-rule-changes-expect-2019

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/272769/guide-to-nfls-new-rules-what-to-know-about-approved-tabled-and-rejected-proposals

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/3/28/15097066/nfl-passes-new-rules-for-2017

I legitimate would like to know which rule you are referring to.

Rule Changes aren't what's hurting Xavier. He's slow. The slowest and most tentative at the LOS I've ever seen him. The Chiefs weren't targeting him because he wasn't covering their only 2 weapons, Kelce and Hill.

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"greediron" said:

I don't disagree with the first 2 items. But the zimmer guys?  How have we seen Rhodes deteriorate with no accountability?  He has not been as good since the rule changes last year took away a big part of his game.  

If he has not been as good since the rule changes and yet he still gets the majority of the playing time, does that mean he is not being held accountable or that Hughes is playing worse than Rhodes?

Also, seriously, I wanted to find the rules changes you are talking about.  Here are two articles on the rules changes the past three years:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27544137/everything-need-know-nfl-rule-changes-expect-2019

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/272769/guide-to-nfls-new-rules-what-to-know-about-approved-tabled-and-rejected-proposals

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/3/28/15097066/nfl-passes-new-rules-for-2017

I legitimate would like to know which rule you are referring to.

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"greediron" said:

I don't disagree with the first 2 items. But the zimmer guys?  How have we seen Rhodes deteriorate with no accountability?  He has not been as good since the rule changes last year took away a big part of his game.  

If he has not been as good since the rule changes and yet he still gets the majority of the playing time, does that mean he is not being held accountable or that Hughes is playing worse than Rhodes?

Also, seriously, I wanted to find the rules changes you are talking about.  Here are two articles on the rules changes the past three years:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27544137/everything-need-know-nfl-rule-changes-expect-2019

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/272769/guide-to-nfls-new-rules-what-to-know-about-approved-tabled-and-rejected-proposals

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/3/28/15097066/nfl-passes-new-rules-for-2017

I legitimate would like to know which rule you are referring to.

The rule changes for 2018 that severely limited the amount of contact allowed by the DBs. 

@"FSUVike" said: Rule Changes aren't what's hurting Xavier. He's slow. The slowest and most tentative at the LOS I've ever seen him. The Chiefs weren't targeting him because he wasn't covering their only 2 weapons, Kelce and Hill.

Seems to me that he's just too big to be fluid.  And I have no idea how fast he is because I can't remember the last time I saw him sprint in a straight line.

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"greediron" said:

I don't disagree with the first 2 items. But the zimmer guys?  How have we seen Rhodes deteriorate with no accountability?  He has not been as good since the rule changes last year took away a big part of his game.  

If he has not been as good since the rule changes and yet he still gets the majority of the playing time, does that mean he is not being held accountable or that Hughes is playing worse than Rhodes?

Also, seriously, I wanted to find the rules changes you are talking about.  Here are two articles on the rules changes the past three years:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27544137/everything-need-know-nfl-rule-changes-expect-2019

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/272769/guide-to-nfls-new-rules-what-to-know-about-approved-tabled-and-rejected-proposals

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/3/28/15097066/nfl-passes-new-rules-for-2017

I legitimate would like to know which rule you are referring to.

The rule changes for 2018 that severely limited the amount of contact allowed by the DBs. 

I don't specifically recall a rule change regarding illegal contact in 2018.  I think the rule went back to 2004. https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1840261  Maybe a point of emphasis for 2018?

Here is a 2014 article about Zimmer teaching Rhodes to avoid illegal contact: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2286311-xavier-rhodes-emerging-as-shutdown-cb-vikings-desperately-needed

@"greediron" said:

It was widely talked about, everywhere.  It is why Zimmer had to switch up his D after the Rams game. here is one blurb from a year ago.

Rules against defenders has changed everything. Receivers are getting open more consistently and the NFL has shifted towards passing offenses instead of steady ball control. Even running backs are now expected to be more complete and able to catch passes.

I think it wasn't a rule change but rather a new point of emphasis to more strongly enforce the earlier rules.  Not disagreeing with you just was trying to line up Griffen's decline with changes in the rules (or strengthening the enforcement).  Regardless of whether it is a decline in ability or ability no longer aligned with the rules, I think we can all agree that Rhodes is not nearly as effective as he was a few years ago.  That being said, at what point do you replace him with Hughes?  Can probably say the same thing with Waynes.  It just seems to me that Zimm gives his players too many chances to bounce back.  I really hope that I am wrong and that Zimm does his magic and helps Rhodes play at a high level for the next few seasons  -- maybe I am not as patient as Zimmer.

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"greediron" said:

It was widely talked about, everywhere.  It is why Zimmer had to switch up his D after the Rams game. here is one blurb from a year ago.

Rules against defenders has changed everything. Receivers are getting open more consistently and the NFL has shifted towards passing offenses instead of steady ball control. Even running backs are now expected to be more complete and able to catch passes.

I think it wasn't a rule change but rather a new point of emphasis to more strongly enforce the earlier rules.  Not disagreeing with you just was trying to line up Griffen's decline with changes in the rules (or strengthening the enforcement).  Regardless of whether it is a decline in ability or ability no longer aligned with the rules, I think we can all agree that Rhodes is not nearly as effective as he was a few years ago.  That being said, at what point do you replace him with Hughes?  Can probably say the same thing with Waynes.  It just seems to me that Zimm gives his players too many chances to bounce back.  I really hope that I am wrong and that Zimm does his magic and helps Rhodes play at a high level for the next few seasons  -- maybe I am not as patient as Zimmer.

It isn't just about the emphasis on contact. Xavier was clocked with the fastest time in 2017 returning an INT of any player that year. 

And he wasn't mugging or holding downfield because he was getting burnt. Xavier Rhodes had great speed to stick with WRs AND used his physicality past the 5 yards to bump them off their routes. He didn't need the physical stuff, he used it as an added benefit.

Now he looks as tentative at the LOS as Waynes did his first few seasons.  It's clear he no longer trusts his natural speed to keep up with even the slowest bruisers like Alshon Jeffery. So he's getting burnt and more and more grabby. 

Did he 'cultivate mass' ala Mac on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia but take it too far? Did all the injuries over the years finally sap his speed? Rhodes has always been more about throwing his body at a runner than actually wrapping up like Wayne's does.  Might be a combo of both. Or losing confidence as Zimmer asked him to play more Zone instead of his bread & butter press man.

Corners are like Kickers, Golfers and Ckosers. A huge chunk of their performance is between the ears. You have to shrug off giving up a big completion or a score and move on. Just like kickers who miss chip shots, golfers who miss short putts and closers who blow 9th Inning leads 

I see zero ability to shake off the previous play from XR right now. He showed more moxie in his first start at FSU than he does now. And the numbers reflect it.

It's probably everything I've mentioned plus the rules emphasis plus stuff we don't even know about.  Whatever the reasons he looks like he's toast. 

FSU:  I do wonder whether the drafting of Hughes has also caused Rhodes to look over his shoulder more -- that knowing there is a capable replacement on the bench has caused him to not be as fearless on the field -- worried that any little mistake could send him to the bench.  I do think Zimmer's public defense of him is to make him feel more secure in his starting role.  {Doesn't seem to be working, though.}

@"greediron" said:  Saw somewhere, i think it was the Redskins game, he played his lowest percentage of snaps in many years.  Not sure, but I remember something about that.

That was the game where he got his bell rung and had to be assessed for a concussion.  I don't know how many plays he was off while being assessed or whether Zim used that as a pretext to keep him off the field without benching him.

@"VikingOracle" said:

• Cowboys:  I will start with a simple statement, this weeks game against the Cowboys is the most significant Viking game ever for Cousins and Zimmer. Not just for this season, but for their respective careers.   Since 2014, the Vikings are now 0-13-1 against teams with winning records in an outdoor stadium on the road.  Kirk Cousins is now 6-27 against teams with a winning record.  Since Zimmer became coach, including playoffs, the Vikings are 13-29 against teams that had a winning record coming into the game.This is the game to break the narrative for both Zimmer and Cousins.

Plus the game is primetime.  We need to shine not shrivel :)  We have a stretch of this game in Dallas, home Broncos, then away Seahawks again primetime game.  We "have" to win two of those 3 for me to still believe in Zimmer in particular.  I still think Cousins is good enough to get us there with a solid team around him.  Don't think he can carry a team.  

• Hurry Up Offense:  I would start every game on the road in a hurry up offense.  I think Cousin overthinks his mistakes instead of just moving on to the next play.  A hurry-up offense would prevent him from lingering on the prior pass/play and make him act more instinctively.  When employed in the past, it seemed to help him find a groove.

I like that idea, play fast which should be very possible it's not like our offense is loaded with rookies.

• Cornerback Whisperer?: I think Zimmer's reputation as a CB whisperer is taking a big hit.  Think of the draft capital spent on CB on this team: 3 first round cornerbacks and a second round cornerback.  Compare that with what Patterson has done with defensive line picks.  This team should have the best defensive backfield in the league.

The decline of Rhodes this year is dramatic and Hughes is really a first year pro.  I like what I see from him considering.  I think to send Rhodes a message or ego shot you start phasing in Hughes more.  

• Zimmer's Guys:  Zimmer is too loyal to certain players.  We have seen Rhodes deteriorate with no real accountability.  I don't think you can even say Elfien has deteriorated, he has simply never improved.  Compare that to the Patriot way where they kick players to the curb even before the player starts to deteriorate.  It is frustrating to see players hold their jobs when it looks like there are better options on the bench.

Already talked about Rhodes but remember the beginning of the year when Zimmer told Rhodes and the media that he needs to play better.  That has not happened.

Elflein is getting the crap beat out of him but some of the holding calls from last week were BS.  That said, both national announcers (I only get national) both said how much Elflein has struggled _ I think it was Aikman the one game and then Collingsworth the next.  We might not want to see it but the rest of the country does and so do the refs :)  Again, can we phase in someone else because Elflein is trending well.

• The Defense:  It is weird knowing that these players have been in this system for many years, yet in the Chiefs' game there seemed to be a lot of blown assignments.  In fact, I think I have seen more blown assignments this year than the entirety of the last 2 years combined.  It really is strange and you have to wonder if players are beginning to freelance a little bit out of frustration.

• Play Calling:  I thought the play calling was fairly poor on both sides of the ball.  I do think the Vikes expected more blitzing and they adjusted to what the Chiefs were doing.  As for the defense, it seems Zimmer always gets more conservative when playing a back-up quarterback than a starter.  I guess he is playing the odds but I find ti odd.

I think these are tied together.  A big part of Zimmers defense is to keep everything in front of you at corner and LB to give up some YAC but not too much...the bend but don't break mentality. I think that is not just at corner.  In a sense it is the LB as well.  That laid back and react extends to our lack of blitzing etc, which makes the Line 4 against 5 or 6 and again give the QB enough time to get the pass 8 yards when they need 10 but then we expect 0 yac and that doesn;t happen as much. Oh F this I am 3 vodka/clubs in and rambling.  Good post!