What is Zimmer up to?

The one new wrinkle lately has been Grif in the A gap on third downs...

@"BarrNone55" said: The one new wrinkle lately has been Grif in the A gap on third downs...

I wish he would be more aggressive like this.  We did a lot of faking A gap blitzes in the past.  Sometimes you have to bring the heat.  

He needs to do something to manufacture more pressure on the QB.  Give Stafford time to throw and you give up 3 TDs in one half. If Stafford can do that, so can Rodgers, Mahomes, Rivers, Wilson, Dak, ...

 

Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Hughes 

And now Hill?  

 Add Harris, Kearse and Smith 

 8 players that could conceivably be on  the field at the same time, and none of them are scrubs. Add Matafa, Hunter and Griffen 

If Zim is "cookin something up"  seems like he has the personnel to draw up some pretty weird exotic  stuff. 

 

His defenses were more aggressive in 2017. He seems to play a lot less man press coverage, and that was one of the defenses strengths. I don't think they are anything special in zone coverage.
Is he compensating for a deterioration in man press coverage skills? 
He seems to bring the heat on third and long only. Has he become predictable?
I don't know. I did hear it mentioned today that New England plays more man coverage than any other team. I think it allows their defense to be very creative.
If Zim can get it back together this team would be very difficult to beat.

I was puzzled Sunday. No stunts no disguised blitzes. Line up and rush 4 against a very accurate QB who only thrives on not being pressured. 2 sacks?? One of them was all Griff not giving up.  Not by any exotic design. I thought going into this one he would have to be aggressive. Well they were aggressive, on offense. Right down till the final 2:00. Defense stayed vanilla the whole game. Come to think of was is not the right word. I'm STILL puzzled.

I think Zimmer is closer than ever about realizing if you aren't aggressive on BOTH sides of the ball, you can't win it all in this league. He's so close.....

Zimmer tried some exotic things early in the season last year and it didn't work well...  he ended up dialing things back to get the defense playing well again and then mixed it up later in the season.

Maybe he decided this season that he wants to start basic, establish some consistency, and then when teams think he's doing this...  he'll start mixing in the exotic looks in the 2nd half of the season to throw teams off?  I mean we just saw the Everson Double A gap look...  that's certainly different and we didn't use it at the beginning of the year.

Just something to think about...

I think there are QBs you blitz and QBs you don't. Seems like the Vikings always did best against Rodgers, for example, when they rushed their front four and dropped everyone in coverage. It was so satisfying watching that douchebag sit back there and find not a single person to throw to...as the front four closes in. 

For a lot of games, I actually found myself rooting for them not to blitz. I'm not sure if that's changed now that Rhodes is seemingly in decline. 

So after the worst defensive performance of the year the theory is that it's a secret genius plan in disguise by Zimmer? Looks more to me like the old ball coach is losing his chops.

Here's what I'll add: why are we focusing on the Lion's having some success instead of HOW the Vikings won a game with their offense for once? So what that it was a shootout, even the best defenses have some lapses. These are professional players the team is going against every single week. 

Fans today want it all. They not only want to win, they want to dominate every second of the action. Its not realistic. 

@"StickyBun" said: Here's what I'll add: why are we focusing on the Lion's having some success instead of HOW the Vikings won a game with their offense for once? So what that it was a shootout, even the best defenses have some lapses. These are professional players the team is going against every single week. 

Fans today want it all. They not only want to win, they want to dominate every second of the action. Its not realistic. 

I agree. But it doesn't seem realistic, the offense can carry the defense week in and week out. While I rejoice in the offenses success, I envision a championship caliber team, if the defense lives up to it's potential as well.

History has shown the Vikings to be great on one side of the ball at a time. This team has the opportunity to be great on both sides, offense and defense. I didn't have that vision earlier in the season. I do now.
Yes we fans want it all! At least just once.

@"comet52" said: So after the worst defensive performance of the year the theory is that it's a secret genius plan in disguise by Zimmer? Looks more to me like the old ball coach is losing his chops.

After having our team on a 3 game win streak, winning a division game on the road, it looks like a great time to pound another nail in his coffin. Look, we speculate and talk and have fun.  But if anyone of us were half as smart as we sound, we would have a job coaching.  But I just don't get the "game has passed him by", "old school" and that he plays players that are bad just to show how smart he is.  Zimmer may like defense and running the ball, but he isn't old school.  He is very innovative.  Billy over in NE is more old school than Zimmer, yet he is regarded as the best coach in the NFL. So no, playing horrible wasn't a secret genius plan and no one ever said that.  Zimmer took responsibility for the poor game by the defense.  So I am asking if perhaps he was trying something different that didn't work out well.  He is rotating the DBs for sure, but was there something else.  Is he working on something or is he simply saying the zone stuff wasn't working. 

As to the D playing much better in 2017, there were some rule changes in 2018 that made that physical play by the DBs illegal.  And the refs in Detroit were calling everything pretty tight on the back end.  So the physical man to man isn't going to work in today's NFL.

@"MaroonBells" said: I think there are QBs you blitz and QBs you don't. Seems like the Vikings always did best against Rodgers, for example, when they rushed their front four and dropped everyone in coverage. It was so satisfying watching that douchebag sit back there and find not a single person to throw to...as the front four closes in. 

For a lot of games, I actually found myself rooting for them not to blitz. I'm not sure if that's changed now that Rhodes is seemingly in decline. 

I like everything you said except for the fact that douche bag will just throw it in the general area of his receiver and wait for the ref to bail him out with a big gain. 

NE plays a lot of man defense but then brings a creative pass rush to make sure the QB gets rid of the ball quickly.  By creative I mean that so often he forces one blocker to have to deal with 2 pass rushers.  BB then counts on his DBs being close to the WR so if the pass is completed, the WR is tackled quickly.  Because of the pass rush, the DBs do not have to cover for long. The QB pressure causes a lot of bad passes and forces a lot of quick decisions.  So long as the DBs can stay close to their man, this is a fantastic defensive scheme. 

@"dadevike" said: NE plays a lot of man defense but then brings a creative pass rush to make sure the QB gets rid of the ball quickly.  By creative I mean that so often he forces one blocker to have to deal with 2 pass rushers.  BB then counts on his DBs being close to the WR so if the pass is completed, the WR is tackled quickly.  Because of the pass rush, the DBs do not have to cover for long. The QB pressure causes a lot of bad passes and forces a lot of quick decisions.  So long as the DBs can stay close to their man, this is a fantastic defensive scheme. 

That is a fantastic scheme.  Wish Zimmer would try that.

We will always question a Defense that has FAR MORE Draft Capital and Contracts than the Offense does. Defense-minded HC. All Pros or Pro Bowlers at all three levels.

It's no different than Rams fans questioning what happened to that Offense.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Detroit game. Marvin Jones has killed Minnesota on several occasions and Stafford was lava hot. It happens.

I do have a problem with getting 21 straight dropped on him in GB. And letting a journeyman backup QB lead one long drive after another in Chicago. Defenses that are supposed to be great just don't do that. Nor do they choke at home twice to cost the team Playoffs appearances.

What I think is happening with the Zone stuff is a more about how Zimmer despises giving up chunk plays. Last year even Shanahan and the 49ers were scheming wide open players (Kittles and the RB with the funky name) for big gainers the first half of the season. After the Rams shootout he started rolling with more zone.

Guess what? So did the rest of the League. Remember all the chatter here last year about how the Rams and Chiefs were turning the NFL into the Arena League? And then more and more teams started going Zone. And it makes sense. If you're guarding an area instead of a man you are less vulnerable to misdirection and pick plays.

That's an oversimplification but the logic is sound. Prevent chunk plays and you make the Offenses that rely on all that eye candy pre-snap and all the rub routes have to sustain longer drives and take more plays to score. And it worked. 

But by the Playoffs  crafty old Belicheat was back to playing sticky Man to Man Coverage against that style of Offense. And it worked. This season the Lions, Colts and Texans came out playing sticky Man against the Chiefs and held Mahomes and Company in check. 

So Defenses are shifting back to Man and Zimmer seems to be playing more Zone than ever. I can only think of two reasons: Zimmer has become so adverse to giving up chunk plays that he's going stick with it going forward OR Rhodes is in decline, whether due to injury, bulking up too much or whatever and Zimmer doesn't feel Hughes is ready to supplant him and go back to more Man Coverage.

I don't think Mike is so worried about big gainers that he won't go back to Man. He's always been big on Man Coverage. AND he's let Stefanski take the Training Wheels off of the Passing Offense lately. I think it's  because of Rhodes.

Xavier is a highly paid former All Pro. Benching him due to poor performance, regardless of what is causing it, may not be an option in his mind. Might not sit well in the Locker Room. Or again, maybe Hughes just isn't ready yet.

Whatever the reason, his Defense looks the most conservative this year than in recent memory. And as fans we have the right to question it even though we aren't smart enough to work for an NFL Team. Which is about the weakest fucking argument you can ever make on a fan forum. So because we're not NFL GMs or Coaches we can't have opinions that differ from yours? Why even have a Forum in the first place if there's no room for dissenting opinions?

Especially ones there that are as eloquently and logically laid out as mine lol.

But seriously, I hope Zimmer can get back to more Man against the tougher opponents on the road if for no other reason than to give OCs more to worry about when game planning.

@"FSUVike" said: We will always question a Defense that has FAR MORE Draft Capital and Contracts than the Offense does. Defense-minded HC. All Pros or Pro Bowlers at all three levels.

It's no different than Rams fans questioning what happened to that Offense.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Detroit game. Marvin Jones has killed Minnesota on several occasions and Stafford was lava hot. It happens.

I do have a problem with getting 21 straight dropped on him in GB. And letting a journeyman backup QB lead one long drive after another in Chicago. Defenses that are supposed to be great just don't do that. Nor do they choke at home twice to cost the team Playoffs appearances.

What I think is happening with the Zone stuff is a more about how Zimmer despises giving up chunk plays. Last year even Shanahan and the 49ers were scheming wide open players (Kittles and the RB with the funky name) for big gainers the first half of the season. After the Rams shootout he started rolling with more zone.

Guess what? So did the rest of the League. Remember all the chatter here last year about how the Rams and Chiefs were turning the NFL into the Arena League? And then more and more teams started going Zone. And it makes sense. If you're guarding an area instead of a man you are less vulnerable to misdirection and pick plays.

That's an oversimplification but the logic is sound. Prevent chunk plays and you make the Offenses that rely on all that eye candy pre-snap and all the rub routes have to sustain longer drives and take more plays to score. And it worked. 

But by the Playoffs  crafty old Belicheat was back to playing sticky Man to Man Coverage against that style of Offense. And it worked. This season the Lions, Colts and Texans came out playing sticky Man against the Chiefs and held Mahomes and Company in check. 

So Defenses are shifting back to Man and Zimmer seems to be playing more Zone than ever. I can only think of two reasons: Zimmer has become so adverse to giving up chunk plays that he's going stick with it going forward OR Rhodes is in decline, whether due to injury, bulking up too much or whatever and Zimmer doesn't feel Hughes is ready to supplant him and go back to more Man Coverage.

I don't think Mike is so worried about big gainers that he won't go back to Man. He's always been big on Man Coverage. AND he's let Stefanski take the Training Wheels off of the Passing Offense lately. I think it's  because of Rhodes.

Xavier is a highly paid former All Pro. Benching him due to poor performance, regardless of what is causing it, may not be an option in his mind. Might not sit well in the Locker Room. Or again, maybe Hughes just isn't ready yet.

Whatever the reason, his Defense looks the most conservative this year than in recent memory. And as fans we have the right to question it even though we aren't smart enough to work for an NFL Team. Which is about the weakest fucking argument you can ever make on a fan forum. So because we're not NFL GMs or Coaches we can't have opinions that differ from yours? Why even have a Forum in the first place if there's no room for dissenting opinions?

Especially ones there that are as eloquently and logically laid out as mine lol.

But seriously, I hope Zimmer can get back to more Man against the tougher opponents on the road if for no other reason than to give OCs more to worry about when game planning.

At some point we have to ask about the $ on offense.  Cousins, AT, Diggs, Rudy, Reiff...  And the draft capital is starting to migrate that way as well.  3 o-line in the top 3 rounds.  Rudy, Irv, cook, mattison.  The good news about our D is that we have kept them together.
As to the man vs zone, yes, Zimmer switched it up and it worked well last year.  But I wonder if he is working Hughes back into game shape for more man coverage with him and Waynes?  Rhodes is struggling to find his grove without being physical like he was in a dominant 2017. 

And I never said you can't have an opinion.  As if that would even matter on a fan forum.  I just have the opinion that the constant bagging on Zimmer as out of touch seems a bit out of place while we are on a 3 game win streak.  Like the "I am over zimmer, he is so out of touch, starts players because he is stubborn and wants to live in the 70s."  It is my opinion that those are stupid arguments and deserve to be called out. 

Your eloquent, if a touch arrogant, arguments are actually thought out and interesting to discuss.
I too hope our defense can play tighter and pitch a shutout every game, but since that isn't likely, I will take a dominant D that wins games.  I have listed it before, the Chicago game was not on the D.  The first drive after Mitch went out was ugly.  But other than a handful of other plays, they shut Chicago down.  One score drive was a -4 yard drive that ended in a FG. 

I post in Forums with Confidence not Arrogance. Just like Wide Receivers are Passionate, not Divas lol.

But seriously, you might be right about easing back to Man once Hughes is fully reintegrated. Or maybe when Hill is back and all the way up to speed.

Mike was quick to switch to Zone after some bad outings last year but not quick to switch back this year. I have to believe Rhodes is why.

Or he might roll with a lot more Man looks tomorrow night. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Does anyone know how much Zone they use at USF? Rhodes played some at FSU but not as much as Waynes in that hybrid system they use at MSU. Wondering if Zimmer is looking at mixing up coverage schemes throughout the game that is easier for the younger guys who've done it more than Xavier. 

Would be a good time for Geoff to chime in on what's hearing or thinking about the high percentage of Zone looks this year. Someone shine the Guru Signal!

The good news is Zimmer's defense is still pretty darn good. It has been, and can be better. But we are walking in high cotton right now. So I guess I won't be gnashing teeth over it for another week.
Another gauge things are going well, would be little or no posts from our most negative poster!