CBS Sports: Predicting a Viking's shit show in Chicago
4. Bears -2 vs. VikingsI loved the Vikings as big favorites over the Raiders last week because it's just what this team and this quarterback do. They beat up on bad football teams. I do not, however, love the Vikings against the Bears (in Chicago) because what this team and this quarterback don't do is beat up on good football teams.
The Bears have been tough to back to this point in the season because of their comatose offense, but their offense woke up against a bad Redskins defense on Monday night, with Mitchell Trubisky completing 80.7 percent of his passes, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt, and throwing three touchdowns and one interception for a 116.5 passer rating. Was it perfect? Not even close. He demonstrated shaky accuracy with his ball placement on downfield passes and threw an awful pick in the red zone, but he made progress after two dismal performances to begin the season.
A few stats that stand out to me heading into Sunday’s game against Minnesota:- Since 2010, the Bears are 15-4 against the Vikings at Soldier Field.
- Kirk Cousins is 4-26 against winning teams. #Bears
The key will be how the Bears' defense handles NFL rushing leader Dalvin Cook and the Vikings' seventh-ranked rushing attack, per Football Outsiders. If the Bears can stop Cook, they'll force the Vikings to rely on Cousins and their pass protection, which has struggled immensely. According to NFL Matchup on ESPN, only three quarterbacks have been under pressure on a higher percentage of their passes than Cousins (34.8%). I think the Bears can stop the running game. Their defense ranks third against the run, per Football Outsiders, and is allowing only 68.7 rushing yards per game (the fifth lowest).
I was tempted to take the under, but 38 seems too low (both defenses could get in on the scoring action), so instead I'll ride with the Bears and their defense. At worst, the Bears should be favored by three points at home, so I love getting the extra point here.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
again though, stats in a bubble are useless, we have all seen KC choke and not take care of the ball, but we have also seen him get worked over a shit ton as well and those fumbles are not necessarily on the QB as much as the OL. Of those picks, how many were KC making a dumb ass throw like the endzone pick in gbay, and how many were on the receivers for wrong routes or popping the ball into the air, or the OL for allowing the defenders to get their arms up and tipping a pass? Its never as black and white as the numbers try an make it seem. 5-26 is an ugly number, but like Maroon points out, its not likely that he was the cause of all those losses, and in fact they may have been losses in spite of a good game by the QB.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
again though, stats in a bubble are useless, we have all seen KC choke and not take care of the ball, but we have also seen him get worked over a shit ton as well and those fumbles are not necessarily on the QB as much as the OL. Of those picks, how many were KC making a dumb ass throw like the endzone pick in gbay, and how many were on the receivers for wrong routes or popping the ball into the air, or the OL for allowing the defenders to get their arms up and tipping a pass? Its never as black and white as the numbers try an make it seem. 5-26 is an ugly number, but like Maroon points out, its not likely that he was the cause of all those losses, and in fact they may have been losses in spite of a good game by the QB.
I agree, and I was also "cherry picking" negative stats just to make a point. KC isn't the worst QB in Vikings history by a long shot. But, he's definitely the highest paid QB we've ever had, so I think expectations of him were at a fairly high level. I do think he's about as good (or bad) as he was with Washington. I don't think that's what most Viking fans were hoping for when he became our starting QB.
But I think we expected the Vikes to give him the protection most star QB's enjoy. Not the past several years of journeymen saloon-doors.
As far as KC's contract is concerned, he got the money any QB with his stats would have got...here or elsewhere. And in less than two years will be making middle-of-the-road money.
@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
again though, stats in a bubble are useless, we have all seen KC choke and not take care of the ball, but we have also seen him get worked over a shit ton as well and those fumbles are not necessarily on the QB as much as the OL. Of those picks, how many were KC making a dumb ass throw like the endzone pick in gbay, and how many were on the receivers for wrong routes or popping the ball into the air, or the OL for allowing the defenders to get their arms up and tipping a pass? Its never as black and white as the numbers try an make it seem. 5-26 is an ugly number, but like Maroon points out, its not likely that he was the cause of all those losses, and in fact they may have been losses in spite of a good game by the QB.
I agree, and I was also "cherry picking" negative stats just to make a point. KC isn't the worst QB in Vikings history by a long shot. But, he's definitely the highest paid QB we've ever had, so I think expectations of him were at a fairly high level. I do think he's about as good (or bad) as he was with Washington. I don't think that's what most Viking fans were hoping for when he became our starting QB.
i think Favre in 09/10 was the highest when adjusted for inflation. as far as how good he is or can be... I dont think we have seen his ceiling yet, but I dont know that we will either. he seems like one of those guys that could be an above average QB for his whole career and walk away with a ring, but still never make the HOF or even a high round fantasy guy.
@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
God, I'm geeked today. Feeling optimistic and feisty for the Vikes to kick some ass at Soldier Field. Don't know if they will, but I'm in that kind of mindframe.
See what a Packer loss does? Its good for the soul.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
I understand, MB. Those passing yards stats you posted are misleading too. Many of those yards are "padded" when they come late in games facing prevent defenses.Maybe I'm too hard on KC, but I guess I expect the highest paid player on the team should also be the best playmaker. I'm not seeing that by a longshot. The best games this season is when KC doesn't have to throw the ball much and plays as the game manager.
It's just my opinion, and hopefully KC can start winning me over as a fan starting this week. I really want him to do well.
@"HappyViking" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
I understand, MB. Those passing yards stats you posted are misleading too. Many of those yards are "padded" when they come late in games facing prevent defenses.Maybe I'm too hard on KC, but I guess I expect the highest paid player on the team should also be the best playmaker. I'm not seeing that by a longshot. The best games this season is when KC doesn't have to throw the ball much and plays as the game manager.
It's just my opinion, and hopefully KC can start winning me over as a fan starting this week. I really want him to do well.
Nope. He ain't gonna win you over this week. But you're going to see a lot more of good Kirk than bad Kirk in weeks 5 thru 17.
@"HappyViking" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
I understand, MB. Those passing yards stats you posted are misleading too. Many of those yards are "padded" when they come late in games facing prevent defenses.Maybe I'm too hard on KC, but I guess I expect the highest paid player on the team should also be the best playmaker. I'm not seeing that by a longshot. The best games this season is when KC doesn't have to throw the ball much and plays as the game manager.
It's just my opinion, and hopefully KC can start winning me over as a fan starting this week. I really want him to do well.
the veteran starting QB is pretty much the highest paid player on any team, but rarely are they the teams best play makers. outside of maybe 3 or 4 QBs in the league do you find this to be the case.
@"JimmyinSD" said:So, are you satisfied with the QB play of Cousins, and he's pretty much what you expected? The bar I set for him is higher than what I've seen.@"HappyViking" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
I understand, MB. Those passing yards stats you posted are misleading too. Many of those yards are "padded" when they come late in games facing prevent defenses.Maybe I'm too hard on KC, but I guess I expect the highest paid player on the team should also be the best playmaker. I'm not seeing that by a longshot. The best games this season is when KC doesn't have to throw the ball much and plays as the game manager.
It's just my opinion, and hopefully KC can start winning me over as a fan starting this week. I really want him to do well.
the veteran starting QB is pretty much the highest paid player on any team, but rarely are they the teams best play makers. outside of maybe 3 or 4 QBs in the league do you find this to be the case.
Teams that pay monster money for the QB do think he's "the guy" to lead the team to SBs.
I am afraid we will see Kirk in way over his head and us look stupid. I think the team will start to divide if this is an ugly. You cant have players not trusting Kirk and that is what will start happening IMO
@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:So, are you satisfied with the QB play of Cousins, and he's pretty much what you expected? The bar I set for him is higher than what I've seen.@"HappyViking" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said: First of all, I always laugh when people bring up past records. Seriously, what do teams with Daunte Culpepper, Wasswa Serwanga, Cade McNown and Brian Urlacher have to do with determining who should win this current matchup? Nothing. You want to bring up last year's games, fine. That's really the only thing that's relevant here.Second, I know Cousins has not played particularly well against good team (at least that's the prevailing narrative), but just how overhyped is this little factoid? I know he did't play well against the Bears in either game. That's relevant. And he played like crap against the Patriots. That's relevant too. But here's how he did against the other "good" teams on our schedule last year. Is it really that bad?
Kirk Cousins at Packers: 35 of 48, 425 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins at Rams: 36 of 50, 422 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Eagles: 30 of 37, 301 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Saints: 31 of 41, 359 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Kirk Cousins vs Packers: 29 of 38, 342 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
Kirk Cousins at Seahawks: 20 of 33, 208 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Its stat cherry picking, there are always stats available to support any point a person wants to make. I think in a team game team win loss records are pretty hard to hang on an individual without looking at that individuals performance and your post certainly paints a much prettier picture...I'm with you on this oneI personally think this game is more about our OL vs the Bears front 7 than it will be on KC to win or lose the game.
Yeah, I can cherry pick stats too. KC is 5-26 when playing teams with a winning record, and in 81 career games he has thrown
67 interceptions and fumbled 50 times.
I wonder if the Bears D knows this?
I really would love to see KC play well and be the stud leader at QB this team was hoping for; I really would. But...
I think the whole "teams with a winning record" is a little misleading. Would you call Aaron Rodgers a bad QB? Since 2012, he's 6-23 against teams with a winning record. What's more, when trailing a team with a winning record by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter, he's 0-37 for his career. See, you can pull out any stat you want to support whatever narrative you want to write. Yeah, we all know Cousins has performed poorly in some big games. But he's performed exceptionally well in some of those games in the loss column. For example, one of his losses to "a team with a winning record" last year was the Rams. He thew for 422 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks. Was it really on him? Or was that the game where our defense was exposed? See what I mean?
I understand, MB. Those passing yards stats you posted are misleading too. Many of those yards are "padded" when they come late in games facing prevent defenses.Maybe I'm too hard on KC, but I guess I expect the highest paid player on the team should also be the best playmaker. I'm not seeing that by a longshot. The best games this season is when KC doesn't have to throw the ball much and plays as the game manager.
It's just my opinion, and hopefully KC can start winning me over as a fan starting this week. I really want him to do well.
the veteran starting QB is pretty much the highest paid player on any team, but rarely are they the teams best play makers. outside of maybe 3 or 4 QBs in the league do you find this to be the case.
Teams that pay monster money for the QB do think he's "the guy" to lead the team to SBs.
I was against signing Cousins to the contract that they did in the first place. I would have offered him about 3 to 4 million a year less and rolled with that. Of course me being the original horseshoe guy on Case wasnt sold on him long term either, but if Cousins wasnt wanting to talk at 24 or 25, I would have taken Case back on the cheap or even rolled with Teddy and then made a hard push in the draft. I think overpaying for anything less than the best is foolish, but that isnt on KC so I am seeing what I have expected, he is better than what we would have gotten from Case IMO, but not the end all of QBs either. as far as teams overpaying... I doubt they honestly think that the guy they are overpaying is a ticket to the lombardi, rather they are paying the going price for a QB that they think wont prevent them from possibly getting there.I dont think Cousins is going to win us a superbowl, but I think we can win one with him... is that is worth 28 a year? I dont know.
Yes, to me 28million is worth a Super Bowl. Every single Free agent (starting) QB signed after KC has exceeded his contract for the most part. So it is the going rate. Paying the going rate, or within that range, and winning a SB is how this game works. You have to pay to play (and the QB position inparticular)I was against signing Cousins to the contract that they did in the first place. I would have offered him about 3 to 4 million a year less and rolled with that. Of course me being the original horseshoe guy on Case wasnt sold on him long term either, but if Cousins wasnt wanting to talk at 24 or 25, I would have taken Case back on the cheap or even rolled with Teddy and then made a hard push in the draft. I think overpaying for anything less than the best is foolish, but that isnt on KC so I am seeing what I have expected, he is better than what we would have gotten from Case IMO, but not the end all of QBs either. as far as teams overpaying... I doubt they honestly think that the guy they are overpaying is a ticket to the lombardi, rather they are paying the going price for a QB that they think wont prevent them from possibly getting there.I dont think Cousins is going to win us a superbowl, but I think we can win one with him... is that is worth 28 a year? I dont know.
I agree also with your take on KC overall: Is he good enough to win us a SB...prob not. But can we win a SB with KC...absolutely.
I always thought (and still do) that John Elway got too much credit for the Broncos winning those two SB's. He was always a choker in most big playoff games (other then playing the Browns :). His stats in both SB's were very subpar but man Terrel Davis was a beast and was able to over compensate for Elways poor play. They always show the Elway helicopter run in the SB but you don't see the beast that TD was in those games. Elway won 2 SB's with barley helping never mind single handedly. Then you add guys like Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Peyton Manning at the end with the Bronco's, Nick Foles, Heck, Terry Bradshaws overall stats are not HOF worthy if not for that Defense, Franco, WR's and all pro's everywhere. How about Jim McMahon, did he carry the Bears to a SB?, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, and Phil Simms are more examples of guys that you can win a SB with but not because they carried you...It's a team game.
Lastly, Favre's only SB win was lead by Reggie White upgrading that whole Defense/team from game 1.
KC is more then capable of winning us a SB as a team. I don't think our other options, at the time of signing him, were or are:
Remember our choices were to go with Case for a few million less...obvious that he is not capable, rolls the dice with often injured Braford or Teddy or get the best free agent QB on the market at that time. Yes, I wanted Tom Brady too but then reality sets in and you make the best decision at the time.
I think KC is going to have a nice game this week and get us out of Chicago with a W. Obviously not great stats but zero turnovers from him and the whole team we win.
@"minny65" said:Yes, to me 28million is worth a Super Bowl. Every single Free agent (starting) QB signed after KC has exceeded his contract for the most part. So it is the going rate. Paying the going rate, or within that range, and winning a SB is how this game works. You have to pay to play (and the QB position inparticular)I was against signing Cousins to the contract that they did in the first place. I would have offered him about 3 to 4 million a year less and rolled with that. Of course me being the original horseshoe guy on Case wasnt sold on him long term either, but if Cousins wasnt wanting to talk at 24 or 25, I would have taken Case back on the cheap or even rolled with Teddy and then made a hard push in the draft. I think overpaying for anything less than the best is foolish, but that isnt on KC so I am seeing what I have expected, he is better than what we would have gotten from Case IMO, but not the end all of QBs either. as far as teams overpaying... I doubt they honestly think that the guy they are overpaying is a ticket to the lombardi, rather they are paying the going price for a QB that they think wont prevent them from possibly getting there.I dont think Cousins is going to win us a superbowl, but I think we can win one with him... is that is worth 28 a year? I dont know.
I agree also with your take on KC overall: Is he good enough to win us a SB...prob not. But can we win a SB with KC...absolutely.
I always thought (and still do) that John Elway got too much credit for the Broncos winning those two SB's. He was always a choker in most big playoff games (other then playing the Browns :). His stats in both SB's were very subpar but man Terrel Davis was a beast and was able to over compensate for Elways poor play. They always show the Elway helicopter run in the SB but you don't see the beast that TD was in those games. Elway won 2 SB's with barley helping never mind single handedly. Then you add guys like Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Peyton Manning at the end with the Bronco's, Nick Foles, Heck, Terry Bradshaws overall stats are not HOF worthy if not for that Defense, Franco, WR's and all pro's everywhere. How about Jim McMahon, did he carry the Bears to a SB?, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, and Phil Simms are more examples of guys that you can win a SB with but not because they carried you...It's a team game.
Lastly, Favre's only SB win was lead by Reggie White upgrading that whole Defense/team from game 1.
KC is more then capable of winning us a SB as a team. I don't think our other options, at the time of signing him, were or are:
Remember our choices were to go with Case for a few million less...obvious that he is not capable, rolls the dice with often injured Braford or Teddy or get the best free agent QB on the market at that time. Yes, I wanted Tom Brady too but then reality sets in and you make the best decision at the time.
I think KC is going to have a nice game this week and get us out of Chicago with a W. Obviously not great stats but zero turnovers from him and the whole team we win.
thats a lot of words... ;)my primary arguement against paying KC all that money was that we were putting a 28 million dollar QB behind a dime store OL. I really would have preferred to fix the line before investing in a QB. but starting QBs dont his FA every year so ..... the cart is ahead of the horse, but hopefully the OL can get rolling and make a run out of this yet.
I’m beginning to think, with everyone against them, they may come out and lay some whoop ass on the Bears
Edit Post (mod action — author will see a notice)
Warn Poster
Suspend User (3 days)
The user will be suspended for 3 days and will receive an email with the reason and information about how to appeal.