NFLDG Mock 3.0 (One More to Come)
I will still post a final mock on draft day. Just wanted to run though another scenario to bring up a few additional names for discussion.
1 (18) - Trade 1(18) & 6(209) for 1(25) & 3(89)
1 (25) via IND - Chris Lindstrom (OG/Boston College) : With only 10-12 blue chip prospects in this draft class it may be hard for teams to find market value moving down. Fortunately for MN they're sitting in front of TEN who has been eyeing up pass rushers which could represent the end of the top available players at that position. That makes MN a possible spot for a trade up which they take advantage of in this situation to net themselves an additional 3rd round selection. At pick #25 Chris Lindstrom both fills an immediate need and would let many Vikings fans take a deep breath. Lindstrom is the toughness the Vikings O-line has lacked and would represent a plug and play starter at LG. He isn't as athletic as his combine scores represent, but is functional in the Vikings zone blocking attack. There may be a learning curve as a pass protector but the running game is immediately improved.
2 (50) - Deebo Samuel (WR/South Carolina) : Although I would still put money on TE being the first skill position the Vikings address in this years draft, Deebo Samuel may prove to be too good a value to pass up. He is the ideal WR3 as he can play anywhere on the field and does a great job uncovering early in his routes. In addition to being a good receiver, he would double as a return specialist from day one. Late in the 2018 season teams started taking away both Thielen and Diggs. The Vikings couldn't find an answer. Deebo could be the piece that changes that and either generates enough of a threat to get defensive attention or allows the Vikings to hide Thielen in the slot more often.
3 (81) - Gerald Willis III (DT/Miami) : After spending two early picks on offense the Vikings take a look at the interior portion of their defensive line. Although Shamar Steephen was brought back in March the roster still lacks a consistent interior pass rush. Jaleel Johnson will get a chance to make an impact, but Willis would be another nice rotational piece to add to the equation. Although polarizing as a prospect, Willis needs technical refinement to unlock his true abilities. The chance to work with Andre Patterson would be a perfect match. On tape, Willis is boom or bust and is either using his quickness to make plays in the backfield or he's recklessly coming out of his stance off balance and ending up on the ground. Although concerning the physical talent you cannot teach is there.
3 (89) via IND - Josh Olive (TE/San Jose State) : An additional 3rd round pick allows the Vikings to wait on TE a bit longer than they otherwise may come Thurs/Fri. Josh Oliver is a pure receiving threat a TE who is best served playing outside the formation. He will need to add weight to be anything as an in-line blocker but that isn't what the Vikings are looking for. Ideally the Vikings want a player who they can pull LB's and safeties across the field with and that is right up Oliver's alley. Aside from the additional threat he'd bring as a receiver he should help open up the play action passing game.
4 (120) - Sione Takitaki (OLB/BYU) : Going into the 2018 season the Vikings weren't thrilled with their LB depth and it reared its ugly head late in the season. Eric Wilson is a more than capable backup but lacks the size to take on block consistently. Sione Takitaki brings more size to the position group and plays with the reckless abandon the Vikings like to see in their LB's. There is a good chance Taki could compete with Ben Gedeon in year one. If not a starter in the base defense he would be a high impact special team threat which carries a lot of value in the middle rounds.
6 (190) - Devine Ozigbo (RB/Nebraska) : We don't know what is going to happen with Roc Thomas but the Vikings need a power compliment to Dalvin Cook. Devine Ozigbo is a one-cut bowling ball that finds yards after first contact. His ability in the open field is better than many scouts give him credit for as he does have some home run ability in the open field. None the less he should slide in as a complimentary back in short yardage and goal line situations.
7 (247) - Derrick Baity Jr. (CB/Kentucky) : I believe I've mocked Baity in all three of my mocks this off-season. Although lacking top-tier arm length, he has the size the Vikings like to see in their outside corners. Taking a corner this late in the draft is with the assumption Trae Waynes remains on the roster. Baity doesn't have top end speed but the coaching staff would hope they could refine his press technique enough to make him serviceable as a backup. If not this would once again be another player who could stick as a core special teamer.
7 (250) - Ty Summers (ILB/TCU) : Last but not least the Vikings double up at LB. Summers is a pure ILB who loves to work through trash to the ball carrier. This would be for additional depth/camp competition and his upside to stick on the 53-man roster as a special teams ace.
This is a very good draft, Geoff. If I get time to finish it, I'll post mine tomorrow, but it's very similar.
This is my favorite mock you've done. I would have absolutely no complaints with this draft.
@"Wetlander" said: This is my favorite mock you've done. I would have absolutely no complaints with this draft.
Totally agree! I would feel even better with two OL.
It feels like there's a good chance that the top 3 tackles are going to be off the board by our pick, so in that scenario, I like the idea of dropping down a few picks, adding a starting guard & securing a 3rd rounder. Deebo Samuel would be an ideal 2nd rounder and he could take advantage of the mismatches created in the passing game. I like adding a DT in the 3rd round, I'm not super familiar with Willis, but I have seen Khalen Saunders getting a lot of hype. I'm not sure about taking a TE in this mock. It's a definite need and I'd like to have a cost-controlled option to replace Rudolph, but after spending a 2nd on a receiver, it becomes harder to justify taking a receiving TE. I'd rather add another OL there. I'm not sure on Takitaki, we need LB depth, but I'm weary of adding another 2-down LB. He does have some pass rush ability, so he could fill in for Barr in some sets. I might look for a safety, TE, DE, or LB who can back up Kendricks here, though I know there is not much depth in the LB class. I don't have any issues with remaining picks.
This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.
If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
Not sure if I'm ready for the Samuel pick, there hasn't been enough time since Williamson to take another South Carolina wr.
I am curious as to why their is belief that Lindstrom is just going to move over to left guard and play well there even though he has never played there before. I suppose they could move Kline over to left guard because he did play there in New England.
I would not automatically assume Lindstrom is going to slide right into the left guard spot and start or even ever do well there.
The rest of the picks are good but it is loaded with players that visited the Vikings. They usually get a few but not almost all. Interesting.
@"MarkSP18" said:He played on the left side all throughout high school and BC brought him in on the left side before starting him in at RG due to need. So I don't see a huge issue in keeping him inside. He's technically refined enough that a slight step back due to the switch shouldn't hurt him much. The Vikings aren't going to have the luxury of finding a pure LG if Jonah Williams is off the board. So regardless which lineman you end up circling this could be the argument. Bradbury is the exception but they'd be sliding Elflein to LG where he got whipped by Easton in training camp during the 2017 pre-season.I am curious as to why their is belief that Lindstrom is just going to move over to left guard and play well there even though he has never played there before. I suppose they could move Kline over to left guard because he did play there in New England. I would not automatically assume Lindstrom is going to slide right into the left guard spot and start or even ever do well there. The rest of the picks are good but it is loaded with players that visited the Vikings. They usually get a few but not almost all. Interesting.
@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.
Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
In the words of Jon Luc Picard--- Geoff make it so.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
I think McCoy is going to be a good starting guard in the league: he's got that thick you need at OG. I agree with you, McCoy is a better fit, I'm sure the Vikings don't want to get off of Elflein at center. And McCoy has handled the big boys inside better than Bradbury.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
I totally get the sort of awkward feeling that drafting Bradbury and moving Elflein gives you. It sort of gives me that vibe too. It's why I would not at all be surprised to see the Vikings draft Lindstrom ahead of Bradbury, even though Bradbury is the better player.But it does beg the question: If Elflein struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level, he may not be pivot you want in a Kubiak outside zone. I know who is. :-)
We have a new OC, a new run game coordinator, a new offensive line coach. It might be time to re-evaluate the folks we have on our line. I don't want to create NEW positions to be filled, because God knows we already have a lot to fill. However, let's not forget that Elflein graded out as the worst center in the NFL last year. We can say it was due to injury...but was it? Also, even though his rookie year was promising (for a rookie) it just wasn't that awesome. He graded out pretty good as a pass blocker, but had a terrible run blocking grade. This the guy you're counting on to run Kubiak's run game? Is this your Tom Nalen? Man, I don't know.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
And let's not forget Elf was a 3rd Round pick. You know who should be available in the 3rd? Powers, Samia, Davis and others. True Guards, not OG/OC tweeners.
Bradbury in the 1st and Samia in the 3rd? Yes, please!
@"PurplePastor" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
I don't take it as challenging. I post all of this to spark dialogue, not to dictate that my opinon(s) are what the Vikings should do and nothing else should be considered.I think both you and @MaroonBells bring up good points regrading Elflein. Have we prematurely put his name in pen on the starting line? Maybe. I do think bringing in another piece to compete with Elf would be good. It just comes down to resource allocation and what the team thinks of Dozier and Jones. What I keep coming back to is the Vikings constantly suggesting they think highly of Elf. I don't think it is marketing talk.
We all would be fooling ourselves if we thought the line was going to be a top unit this upcoming season. The goal is to find at least an average starting 5 that can continue to be refined in future years. When looking at it that way a starting 5 of Reiff - Elflein - Bradbury - Kleine - O'Neill probably works. If Elflein did completely falter you could always try and working with O'Neill - Reiff - Bradbury - Kleine - Hill as well.
@"FSUVike" said: And let's not forget Elf was a 3rd Round pick. You know who should be available in the 3rd? Powers, Samia, Davis and others. True Guards, not OG/OC tweeners.Bradbury in the 1st and Samia in the 3rd? Yes, please!
It's a resource allocation dilemma. If they want to address O-line, TE, and DT in the first few rounds I don't think they will go O-line twice. Crazy or not the Vikings were in this scenario the past two drafts and stuck to their board. That ended with Elflein in the 3rd and O'Neill in the 2nd. I wouldn't call it crazy to think they will hand select someone like Samia and take them in the 3rd and call that the solution..
This clearly would not be a media acceptable approach :#
Here's the thing with 3T, Guru. They've already spent two 4ths. And Griff can sub there.
If I was GM I'd tell Mike I gave you 2 picks. Time to give some love to the other Line.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"PurplePastor" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"StickyBun" said: This is one that most of us would love to see. I think realistically, Vikes will get only one starting offensive lineman for 2019 out of this draft regardless. Any else more fortuitous for Minnesota would involve some big talent sliding in an unforeseen manner to them at 18.If Vikings stay at 18, I think Bradbury is the pick. From what I'm gleaning, he's the guy NFL GMs have a crush on as far as what he can do inside. Put Elflein over to OG and put on 10 lbs. I also think a guy like Erik McCoy is going to go higher than some think....he could play at 315 lbs. in the NFL no problem on that frame and might be a better fit at guard if they insist on keeping Elflein at center.
In some ways I like McCoy's fit on the Vikings better than Bradbury. But from a talent perspective I think there is a decent sized gap between the two. Although the Vikings coaching staff makes the evaluation, Elflein at guard just doesn't sit well with me.Elflein is a power/gap or inside zone blocker. Moving to the outside zone is going to be tougher for him than anyone else on the line since he struggles with reach blocks and getting to the 2nd level consistently. You can do a lot more schematically to protect him at center than at guard. With Bradbury being a pure center I think you'd be taking a larger risk than most think in Elflein. With that said I don't know if I'd pass on a potential pro-bowl center, but you'd possibly be netting out one need for another.
Can we do both? I mean can we get Bradbury and McCoy or someone at guard that is comparable? Do we have to lock ourselves into Elflein at OC or even OG? Why can't Elflein fight it out at OG with a draft pick and what we have? We have had a bad OL and desperately need to improve it. If we can't improve it at OT in this draft, but can in the middle, why not? I know it may cost us some draft capital to move up and get an OG (assuming we pick Bradbury with our 1st), but unless the talent drop off is so great in the end of the 1st or early 2nd round, where we could realistically move up, I don't see why we wouldn't go for it. I'm not challenging you, Geoff. Your knowledge is hugely greater than mine and I appreciate reading your takes, I just don't want to see our team falter another year because of a poor OL.
I don't take it as challenging. I post all of this to spark dialogue, not to dictate that my opinon(s) are what the Vikings should do and nothing else should be considered.I think both you and @MaroonBells bring up good points regrading Elflein. Have we prematurely put his name in pen on the starting line? Maybe. I do think bringing in another piece to compete with Elf would be good. It just comes down to resource allocation and what the team thinks of Dozier and Jones. What I keep coming back to is the Vikings constantly suggesting they think highly of Elf. I don't think it is marketing talk.
We all would be fooling ourselves if we thought the line was going to be a top unit this upcoming season. The goal is to find at least an average starting 5 that can continue to be refined in future years. When looking at it that way a starting 5 of Reiff - Elflein - Bradbury - Kleine - O'Neill probably works. If Elflein did completely falter you could always try and working with O'Neill - Reiff - Bradbury - Kleine - Hill as well.
Geoff, you sees things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not.You can quote me on that. :-)
Still not on the guard in the 1st bandwagon.
I can see a tackle like Taylor or Dillard or Ford.
But if they come out with Tytus Howard and Phil Haynes (massive and very underrated) that would be nice.
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