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NFLDG Mock 2.0

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1 (18) - Trade 1(18) for 1(19) and 5 (157)

1 (19) via TEN - Noah Fant (TE / Iowa) : This is going to be a controversial pick. TE in the first round, no O-lineman, I'm expecting pure outrage. In this mock the Vikings trade back a single spot to recoup their missing 5th round selection. As the draft approaches there is becoming a lesser chance any of the top 3 O-lineman remain on the board and the 2nd tier of O-lineman does not drop off quickly. The Vikings also are in a strong position to trade back with teams in the back half of the 1st looking for impact defensive talent or to jump teams for a playmaker. Point being, the Vikings are going to have options. Noah Fant is an athletic marvel who is a better athlete than TE. But as a weapon Kubiak can unleash him, it's a perfect match. Without being a complete blocker yet Fant can function as a slot WR early in his career with the ability to really develop into one of the better TE's in the league in years 2-4. The ceiling is incredibly high but I would be foolish to leave out the floor is also quite low as well. 

2 (50) - Tytus Howard (OT/OG / Alabama State) : There is a chance that Howard doesn't make it to pick 50 which may be a surprise to some. Although raw I am a big fan of Tytus Howard and what he shows once you get him in motion. He is a terrific athlete and understands how to seal off at the second level. Hand usage needs to improve and he hasn't been tested at the highest level of competition. His traits project him to be a potential LT in the NFL but he has experience at guard (and was good) which isn't talked about enough. He can start immediately at LG and bump outside to LT when ready in the future. 

3 (81) - Ben Banogu (EDGE / TCU) : This is your typical Vikings pass rush prospect who displays elite traits but hasn't been able to put it together consistently at the college level. Now a popular name in NFL draft circles, the Vikings scouted Banogu multiple times this past season likely thinking he'd be a late round steal. TCU's scheme allowed Banogu to use his speed to get up field and make plays in the backfield. His pass rushing arsenal is a bit raw but he should have the ability to be the 4th pass rusher in 2019 with a very high ceiling moving forward. 

4 (120) - Lamont Gaillard (C/OG / Georgia) : Another O-lineman here should make Vikings fans feel comfortable entering the 2019 campaign. Gaillard is a 3 year SEC starter and was one of Georgia's vocal leaders along the O-line. Gaillard doesn't have one skill that sticks out on tape, but man is he scrappy. Sometime regardless of how physically skilled you are the job simply has to get done and he does just that. He may not start in year one but he is a versatile backup piece who can play any of the 3 interior O-line positions. By year two he should be a threat to step in and take major snaps... maybe when Howard bumps out to LT. 

5 (157) via TEN - Devine Ozigbo (RB / Nebraska) : A popular pick in many mock drafts, it just makes too much sense. The Vikings have heavily scouted Ozigbo and he would be a great complimentary piece to Dalvin Cook. Ozigbo is a bowling ball rolling down a hill and has the balance to get through first contact. He actually reminds me of Mark Ingram in a way (not a perfect comp). He likely will be best in a time-share but has better long speed than people give him credit for. A strong complimentary piece next to Cook would make an immediate impact. 

6 (190) - Sione Takitaki (LB / BYU) : The Vikings took a trip out to BYU to see Takitaki at their pro day. The Vikings were not happy with their LB depth in 2018 and they need to find additional depth in this draft class. Takitaki struggled with off the field issues early in his collegiate career but has done a 180 since. He is not going to play much in the nickel but has a chance to compete with Ben Gedeon immediately. If he cannot win that competition he should immediately become a plus ST player. 

6 (209) - Daniel Wise (DT / Kansas) : One of my sleeper picks in this years class if put in the right system is Wise. He is a natural 3-tech DT who has tremendous quickness to get up field as a pure pass rusher. Although he is not a finished product and struggles to get off blocks his length should allow him to be coached up. He isn't a guy that can step in and make an impact in year one but he does have some potential to develop into a rotational interior pocket pusher. 

7 (247) - Derrick Baity Jr (CB / Kentucky) : Baity has a long ways to go as a CB, but he possesses the size to become a factor at the position. With Holton Hill's suspension he could step in as depth early in the season and be an upside special teams player. At worst he would have the opportunity to develop on the PS once Hill returns and make an impact in 2020 when the Vikings will need additional DB depth. 

7 (250) - Greg Dortch (WR / Wake Forest) : Dortch is limited to playing slot receiver in the NFL due to his size limitations. The only reason he will likely be drafted is due to his explosiveness and ability to return both kicks and punts. With Marcus Sherels departing for New Orleans the Vikings will have a true return competition and Dortch would be a strong candidate to win the job or at least put up a good fight. 

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#1 · Apr 15, 9:16 PM
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@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"NFL Draft Guru" do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)? Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO. I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class. 
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
Giving up to much there IMO.  Waynes by himself could be as high as a  2nd rounder to the right team if they miss in the 1st on their guy.  The 18th pick and a solid starter should be worth more imo.
If you do the math on the trade value chart, it comes out to Waynes for a low 2nd rounder. 
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#22 · Apr 17, 6:00 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"NFL Draft Guru" do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)? Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO. I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class. 
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
Giving up to much there IMO.  Waynes by himself could be as high as a  2nd rounder to the right team if they miss in the 1st on their guy.  The 18th pick and a solid starter should be worth more imo.
If you do the math on the trade value chart, it comes out to Waynes for a low 2nd rounder. 
so I guess it is..... 

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#23 · Apr 17, 7:42 AM
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@"Amazonviking" said: As for Banogu, Acuna from last year is exactly the type of DE Zimmer loves and makes the Banogu pick unneeded and too short to fit the Zimmer proto-type.  I like the Nelson kid form Iowa as a better fit in Zimmer's Scheme than Banogu who I see as more of a 3-4 LB than a long lanky athletic DE and Nelson could really project to the LDE spot.  I really don't see a Zimmer proto-type DE outside of Sweat and Burns and I don't see us moving up to take either of them, but if Burns slides to 18 we should run to the podium with his name. . 
Amazon, it's interesting that you're looking for Zimmer to acquire a LDE in the mold of Michael Johnson, because I used to expect that as well. But I'm not so sure he is still after the 6-6+ guys, because he has passed on them a couple of times, and seems to have completely subscribed to the Viking "tradition" (in place at least since the Frazier era) of only using DEs that have more speed than bulk. When was the last time we had a strongside DE who could slug it out with a RT and seal the edge? If they want to go that route, I think they would try Jalyn Holmes (6-5, 283) there.
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#24 · Apr 17, 12:33 PM
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@"Tyr" said: I've looked into Brian Burns today and he's an interesting prospect. Very athletic, great bend, has an array of pass rushing moves, & uses his hands well. On the negative side he's bulked up to 249, but seems to have trouble keeping on weight. His strength isn't where you want it yet and I can see him having trouble in the running game, even if he can blow up some plays in the backfield with athleticism. Teams are looking at him both as a DE and a 3-4 LB and he's got the athleticism to play in space. He'd be an interesting guy to have standing over the center in a double A gap blitz or use in zone blitz looks. The question with him is how confident the strength and condition staff are that they can get him to add weight & strength. He compares his game to Jason Taylor and while Taylor did it, it's hard to be a successful end in the 240s.

Burns is kind of like Fant, both have some really impressive traits, look awesome in highlight reels, but are lacking in key areas. Fant with blocking, consistency, & strength and Burns with weight, strength, & run defense. Both are boom or bust picks. Both could also be in line to replace expensive vets in 2020, which could be attractive to the front office.


Burns seems like a guy we would be drafting if Barr had left. But not only did we keep Barr, we kept Griffen, and not inexpensively, so why a DE? There is a pipeline of pass rush prospects on this squad in Weatherly, Aruna, Odenigbo. One of them will have to go if Griffen is assured a roster spot, and two if we draft another DE. Was Barr promised more rushing snaps to return?

Does it ever seem like we should play a bit of 3-4? Hunter and Barr at rush OLB spots really intrigues me, Kendricks and Wilson at ILB and Linvalle at NT would be fine...I guess we don't have anyone who can play as big 3-4 DEs.

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#25 · Apr 17, 12:47 PM
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@"Jor-El" said:
@"Tyr" said: I've looked into Brian Burns today and he's an interesting prospect. Very athletic, great bend, has an array of pass rushing moves, & uses his hands well. On the negative side he's bulked up to 249, but seems to have trouble keeping on weight. His strength isn't where you want it yet and I can see him having trouble in the running game, even if he can blow up some plays in the backfield with athleticism. Teams are looking at him both as a DE and a 3-4 LB and he's got the athleticism to play in space. He'd be an interesting guy to have standing over the center in a double A gap blitz or use in zone blitz looks. The question with him is how confident the strength and condition staff are that they can get him to add weight & strength. He compares his game to Jason Taylor and while Taylor did it, it's hard to be a successful end in the 240s.

Burns is kind of like Fant, both have some really impressive traits, look awesome in highlight reels, but are lacking in key areas. Fant with blocking, consistency, & strength and Burns with weight, strength, & run defense. Both are boom or bust picks. Both could also be in line to replace expensive vets in 2020, which could be attractive to the front office.


Burns seems like a guy we would be drafting if Barr had left. But not only did we keep Barr, we kept Griffen, and not inexpensively, so why a DE? There is a pipeline of pass rush prospects on this squad in Weatherly, Aruna, Odenigbo. One of them will have to go if Griffen is assured a roster spot, and two if we draft another DE. Was Barr promised more rushing snaps to return?

Does it ever seem like we should play a bit of 3-4? Hunter and Barr at rush OLB spots really intrigues me, Kendricks and Wilson at ILB and Linvalle at NT would be fine...I guess we don't have anyone who can play as big 3-4 DEs.



In this case, we were looking at scenarios where the top OL were not available, so we are forced to look at other positions. I agree that if Barr had left, then the case for Burns is much stronger. As for the pipeline of pass rusher prospects, Weatherly has proven himself to be a very solid player, who can start if needed. After him, we have prospects like Arunda, Odenigbo, Mata'afa, & Schult (AAF player) who all have potential, but it's not a given that they can become Weatherly or better. There are definitely pieces to work with and you can also throw in Jalyn Holmes who could move back to DE depending on the draft. There's also the issue that the Vikings that the Vikings are in a tough spot with the salary cap, so drafting players who could replace expensive veterans is something they need to consider. I doubt that Zimmer would ever do run many 3-4 looks, they could mix it in as part of the nickel package, but likely not a big part of their scheme.

So with all of that said, if the draft pans out in a weird way and the Vikings are forced to look at other positions, then I view Burns as a talented pass rusher, who seems to fit the Vikings profile (even if he's a little light right now), and could be used in a variety of ways. He could also provide cap savings in 2020 if they elect to move on from Griffen, which is not a given. I wouldn't take him over the top OTs and Hockenson, but if those guys are gone, then he becomes part of the conversation because he could very well be BPA.

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#26 · Apr 19, 1:49 AM
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#27 · Apr 19, 9:20 AM
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Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 

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#28 · Apr 19, 11:40 AM
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@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree. 

O-line will be the top priority but I do think they likely have a few contingent plans. If they don't go line in the 1st maybe they take players back to back in the 2nd/3rd. Alternatively if they take a guy in the 1st maybe they don't tough it again until the 4th. Just a way to hedge getting at least a single starter. 

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#29 · Apr 19, 12:18 PM
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@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  

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#30 · Apr 19, 12:22 PM
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@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.

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#31 · Apr 19, 1:01 PM
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@"Wetlander" said:
@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.



If the Vikings don't find a way to push the pocket in 2019 they are doing to have some issues generating consistent pressure like they did late in the 2018 season. Linval and Shamar are a good run stuffing duo but I do think part of Shamar's role will be keeping Linval fresh since his workload caught up with him last season. Jaleel Johnson is the most natural 3-tech they have on the roster but he is somewhat unproven and could be the rotational piece if they add an impact rookie. 

Late in the 2018 season teams started to leave their QB shallow in the pocket since they could cut down on the rush arc and prevent the DE's from getting too deep. The Vikings couldn't get the push to stop it. In 2019 Sheldon took that out of the equation and the DE's benefited tremendously. Heck, I think we may have an entirely different opinion on Weatherly without Sheldon in the middle last season. 

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#32 · Apr 19, 1:07 PM
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@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree. 



Interesting you say that. Because I think a truly objective take on that would put more blame at the feet of Zimmer than Spielman. This team is certainly not lacking in talent. It does, however, frequently get outsmarted on game day. 

Of course a Cousins failure in year two could swing that pendulum more in Spielman's direction.

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#33 · Apr 19, 1:29 PM
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@"Wetlander" said:
@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.



I'm not comfortable with our DTs. The thing I keep coming back to is what happens when we take Linval out on obvious passing downs. Our interior rushers are limited to Stephen, Johnson and Holmes. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence and I believe the Vikings will address that before the end of day two.

What I have a problem understanding is why the DTs around pick 18 are so much better than the OLs in that area. I don't think that's necessarily true in this draft. 

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#34 · Apr 19, 1:47 PM
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My take on the matter is who gives a shit about our DTs if our OLine sucks.  We've literally seen our OLine remove us from playoff contention 2 of the last 3 years.  And the one year we had a somewhat decent OLine we went to the championship game.  We've had a top 5 defense how many years in a row now?  The defense will show up.  Give me a top 10 offense with a top 10 rushing game and a top 10 passing game.  That will do more than any DT available to us in the first or second and its starts with the OLine.

I'd rather draft a top OL to be a backup at this point than to draft another defender.

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#35 · Apr 19, 2:33 PM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree. 



Interesting you say that. Because I think a truly objective take on that would put more blame at the feet of Zimmer than Spielman. This team is certainly not lacking in talent. It does, however, frequently get outsmarted on game day. 

Of course a Cousins failure in year two could swing that pendulum more in Spielman's direction.



No team will go far with a bottom 5 OL.  That is Spielman.  Who rolled the dice with an an injured Easton and an injured Elflein?  Spielman.  Who drafted a project OT, pushed Remmers (who's off the team) to RG where he sucked in 2017 and started Hill at RT (who got pushed to the bench)?  Spielman.  What is Zimmers fault is getting JDF and not having a mentor for him unless you count Sparano his mentor in which case that was bad luck.

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#36 · Apr 19, 2:42 PM
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@"medaille" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree. 



Interesting you say that. Because I think a truly objective take on that would put more blame at the feet of Zimmer than Spielman. This team is certainly not lacking in talent. It does, however, frequently get outsmarted on game day. 

Of course a Cousins failure in year two could swing that pendulum more in Spielman's direction.



No team will go far with a bottom 5 OL.  That is Spielman.  Who rolled the dice with an an injured Easton and an injured Elflein?  Spielman.  Who drafted a project OT, pushed Remmers (who's off the team) to RG where he sucked in 2017 and started Hill at RT (who got pushed to the bench)?  Spielman.  What is Zimmers fault is getting JDF and not having a mentor for him unless you count Sparano his mentor in which case that was bad luck.


With one of the best rosters in the NFL surrounding that offensive line...and a lot of bad luck there as well. For example, I don't blame Rick for Loadholts career ending injury, or Mike Harris' career ending injury or Easton's injury or Sparano's death.

Sure, he probably should've moved OL up a round or two in the last 5 years. I've always been an advocate of taking OL in either the 2nd or 3rd round in every draft. Two, three years ago, Rick's OL sweet spot was the 4th round and it failed. Every time. Blame him for that all you want. 

As I said, I'm all for moving that up to day two. But if you're fair, you have to at least also acknowledge that if we did, we may not have Erik Kendricks or Danielle Hunter or Mac Alexander. 

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#37 · Apr 19, 3:30 PM
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@"Wetlander" said:
@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.



I think there is one lineman that I would agree with you on and that is Lindstrom.  He would be a great fit in our scheme, but is limited in his upside.  I could easily be swayed that he is a better target than Jonah Williams.  The point you are making would put Lindstrom right in out scope at 18.  I would just compare him to taking Bridgewater at qb.  What you get in year 1 isnt going to be too far from away from what you get in year 6, high floor low ceiling, wont suck as a rookie but probably never going to be an all pro and to me if you dont see all pro caliber in a prospect at guard you dont take him in the 1st.

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#38 · Apr 19, 3:43 PM
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@"medaille" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"supafreak84" said: Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman. 
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree. 



Interesting you say that. Because I think a truly objective take on that would put more blame at the feet of Zimmer than Spielman. This team is certainly not lacking in talent. It does, however, frequently get outsmarted on game day. 

Of course a Cousins failure in year two could swing that pendulum more in Spielman's direction.



No team will go far with a bottom 5 OL.  That is Spielman.  Who rolled the dice with an an injured Easton and an injured Elflein?  Spielman.  Who drafted a project OT, pushed Remmers (who's off the team) to RG where he sucked in 2017 and started Hill at RT (who got pushed to the bench)?  Spielman.  What is Zimmers fault is getting JDF and not having a mentor for him unless you count Sparano his mentor in which case that was bad luck.


Yup. Blaming "circumstances" for your incompetence at fixing a problem of your own creation is just stupidity. "What was Ricky supposed to do?".....Um, I don't know, maybe NOT fuck it up in the first place? Just spit-ballin'.

On another note, at what point will the Vikings fan base cease and desist with the "most talented roster" schpiel? Because I've been HEARING that the last few seasons, but I haven't been SEEING it. Even looking at 2017 , most fans agree that Case had a "horseshoe up his ass", accounting for the anomaly of a 13 win season, coupled with a literal "once-in-a-lifetime-miraculous" playoff win. That's the only playoff win in 5 years for Zim, and that's only the 2nd for St. Ricky in 13 years.  Do truly "great" rosters post such anemic playoff records? Certainly not by my definition of "great".

If the Vikings TRULY have such a great roster, then the coaching the past few years has been historically awful. Why do I say that? Because there have been a lot of pretty mediocre/average coaches that have WON a SB (Billick, Gruden, Harbaugh, Switzer, Kubiak, McCarthy, Dungy , just off the top of my head) and a WHOLE bunch of mediocre HC's that at least MADE a SB (Ross, Fassel, Harbaugh, Rivera, Quinn, Fisher, Smith, Callahan, Whisenhunt, Fox ) Not all of THOSE teams had the "best" roster, but still managed sustained playoff success, for one post-season, that is.

I've also heard how great the coaching staff is, and I have to ask myself, "Self, how can this be?". The answer : It CAN"T be. Either the roster is over-rated, or the coaching is over-rated. They both can't be "great" and post such shit-ass playoff numbers. Not possible. I think it's a LOT of the former and a little of the latter, but that's JMO.

It seems to be that most fans DO agree that another "Schpielman Special" (zero playoff wins) in 2019, changes to the staff and front office will (and SHOULD) be made, but I'm not so sure about that. Ricky's ability to find scapegoats is unmatched in modern history.

The only way the Vikings do markedly better than last season is if the OL improves. The ONLY way left available to do that for the 2019 season is via the draft. I would hope that even the most ardent Spielman-ite would acknowledge that there is VERY little evidence to support that this will occur. 1 or 2 quality, day 1 starting OL rookies? Yikes. I'm afraid I'll have to witness THAT miracle before I believe it. Call me Thomas or MissouriVike.

Peace and Happy Easter to all.

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#39 · Apr 19, 4:04 PM
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@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.



If the Vikings don't find a way to push the pocket in 2019 they are doing to have some issues generating consistent pressure like they did late in the 2018 season. Linval and Shamar are a good run stuffing duo but I do think part of Shamar's role will be keeping Linval fresh since his workload caught up with him last season. Jaleel Johnson is the most natural 3-tech they have on the roster but he is somewhat unproven and could be the rotational piece if they add an impact rookie. 

Late in the 2018 season teams started to leave their QB shallow in the pocket since they could cut down on the rush arc and prevent the DE's from getting too deep. The Vikings couldn't get the push to stop it. In 2019 Sheldon took that out of the equation and the DE's benefited tremendously. Heck, I think we may have an entirely different opinion on Weatherly without Sheldon in the middle last season. 



Especially with teams spreading out the field so much, interior pressure is the fastest way to the QB. Who do you think would be good fits that could generate quick pressure up the middle like Richardson did? I know that you mentioned Simmons in a previous mock, but with both Spielman and Zimmer having their jobs on the line, I think they would need to find someone who can make a more immediate impact. Also, is there any reason to believe that Jalyn Holmes could step up and provide interior pass rush or is he too much of a tweener?

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#40 · Apr 19, 7:36 PM
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@"Tyr" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"Amazonviking" said:

Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen?  We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.

I think you have to balance need and BPA.  I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.  

The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.  


I guess I don't know why some fans think our DTs are going to suck because we lost Sheldon Richardson.  In my opinion, our run defense was MUCH better in 2017 with Linval and Shamar Stephen on early downs and Tom Johnson subbing in on obvious passing downs.  Neither of those guys have the pure talent that Sheldon does, but collectively they were better for our defense.

The beauty of this draft and where the Vikings are picking...  that 4th rated OL might be the #1 rated interior OL in the draft pool.  You could argue that would be the better pick in terms of BPA compared to taking the 4th best DT in your hypothetical above.



If the Vikings don't find a way to push the pocket in 2019 they are doing to have some issues generating consistent pressure like they did late in the 2018 season. Linval and Shamar are a good run stuffing duo but I do think part of Shamar's role will be keeping Linval fresh since his workload caught up with him last season. Jaleel Johnson is the most natural 3-tech they have on the roster but he is somewhat unproven and could be the rotational piece if they add an impact rookie. 

Late in the 2018 season teams started to leave their QB shallow in the pocket since they could cut down on the rush arc and prevent the DE's from getting too deep. The Vikings couldn't get the push to stop it. In 2019 Sheldon took that out of the equation and the DE's benefited tremendously. Heck, I think we may have an entirely different opinion on Weatherly without Sheldon in the middle last season. 



Especially with teams spreading out the field so much, interior pressure is the fastest way to the QB. Who do you think would be good fits that could generate quick pressure up the middle like Richardson did? I know that you mentioned Simmons in a previous mock, but with both Spielman and Zimmer having their jobs on the line, I think they would need to find someone who can make a more immediate impact. Also, is there any reason to believe that Jalyn Holmes could step up and provide interior pass rush or is he too much of a tweener?


I'm going to be very interested to see how Johnson and Holmes have progressed and if either can give us anything in the way of steady production in the middle. Stephen is more of a run stuffer and a backup to Joseph. 

Interesting note, I was listening to a radio interview yesterday with former NFL GM Mike Lombardi regarding the draft.  He has Simmons ranked as his top overall prospect in this draft. It's going to be very interesting to see where he lands in this draft despite the injury because he is certainly a talent. 

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#41 · Apr 22, 11:16 AM
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