OT: College entrance cheating scandal
Its amazing the lengths wealthy people will go to get their kids anything and everything without earning it. Just cheat and pay out big $$$. These spoiled brats take the place of kids that truly have earned it. This stuff goes on all the time, this specific situation happened to get busted. Quite the lesson being taught here. Disgusting:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/12/us/college-admissions-scheme-how-it-worked/index.html
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/felicity-huffman-and-lori-loughlin-reveal-how-to-ruin-kids-190801230.html
When I heard about this my first thought was about my nephew. He lives in the Cinci area and wants to go to Harvard to become a surgeon. He’s 11 and just finishing 5th grade. In order to enter a school like Harvard you have to prepare young. He’s played sports, learned to play the violin, and worked his butt off already. He recently scored in the top 1% of an exam to get into a highly ranked private school that preps kids for ivy league entrance. He’s skipping to 8th grade this year so it isn’t going to be too long until he applies.
I would think a spot would be highly likely based on his performance and strong work ethic but the thought of a dream being crushed after so much hard work and sacrifice is unthinkable. For everyone of these kids taking up a spot, some kid who’s worked his/her tail off is getting hosed. It’s truely disgusting and immoral. I’m happy to hear they caught these people and I hope they find more.
@"Havoc1649" said: When I heard about this my first thought was about my nephew. He lives in the Cinci area and wants to go to Harvard to become a surgeon. He’s 11 and just finishing 5th grade. In order to enter a school like Harvard you have to prepare young. He’s played sports, learned to play the violin, and worked his butt off already. He recently scored in the top 1% of an exam to get into a highly ranked private school that preps kids for ivy league entrance. He’s skipping to 8th grade this year so it isn’t going to be too long until he applies.I would think a spot would be highly likely based on his performance and strong work ethic but the thought of a dream being crushed after so much hard work and sacrifice is unthinkable. For everyone of these kids taking up a spot, some kid who’s worked his/her tail off is getting hosed. It’s truely disgusting and immoral. I’m happy to hear they caught these people and I hope they find more.
Record-Low 4.59 Percent of Applicants Accepted to Harvard Class of 2022: The Harvard CrimsonHe'll have his work cut out for him, best of luck.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/3/29/harvard-regular-admissions-2022/
@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: Shouldn't the bigger concern be over "student athletes" getting relaxed admission standards?Honestly the fact that these schools are propped up with tax dollars and the costs are still sky rocketing it really pisses me off that some Jack wagon that likely cheats and gets slid through the public school system "because the team needs him active" gets a better chance to get into a college that they will never graduate from than a kid who busted his ass academically, but can't hit a 15' J.
Maybe it's time to level the playing field and make all kids earn their way I to college through their academics and really put the student back into student athlete?
Also put in financial penalties for kids who take scholarships and then try and leave early for the pros. If they are that good they will make great money...make them pay back that scholarship with significant interest so that more kids in other areas can have the same opportunity to an affordable education. What does a free ride for playing basketball for Duke really do for a kid when they are there at 2 years tops?
Like in China or Japan? Your whole life is dependent on your entrance exams, unless your folks can afford to send you to another country.
what does china and japan have to do with our fucked up college educational system? unless theirs is better I dont see the relavancy?
In my wife's dept. She has fewer in state grad students than foreign. This has been a gradual change since the regents have been de-funding the universities and making it more dependent on out state tuition. There is no reason to bring in an in state student for 20k per year when you can have an out stater at 40K or a foreign student at 80k or the child of some one that can make donation, perhaps.
SDSU kids have been complaining for decades about all the foreign students that are getting accepted. IMO at state run (and funded universities) foreign students should only be accepted once all qualifiying in state applicants have been accepted, (including out of state kids from states with reciprocity agreements) Maybe instead of jacking tuition or relying of foreign students the board of regents and university professors should look at trimming costs. To many people on pay roll that have no part in educating our kids these days. I am sure this is an issue at all public colleges, but I know I hear plenty of alums talk about professors they had 30 years ago that are still on payroll but cant be attached to any actual classes.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: Shouldn't the bigger concern be over "student athletes" getting relaxed admission standards?Honestly the fact that these schools are propped up with tax dollars and the costs are still sky rocketing it really pisses me off that some Jack wagon that likely cheats and gets slid through the public school system "because the team needs him active" gets a better chance to get into a college that they will never graduate from than a kid who busted his ass academically, but can't hit a 15' J.
Maybe it's time to level the playing field and make all kids earn their way I to college through their academics and really put the student back into student athlete?
Also put in financial penalties for kids who take scholarships and then try and leave early for the pros. If they are that good they will make great money...make them pay back that scholarship with significant interest so that more kids in other areas can have the same opportunity to an affordable education. What does a free ride for playing basketball for Duke really do for a kid when they are there at 2 years tops?
Like in China or Japan? Your whole life is dependent on your entrance exams, unless your folks can afford to send you to another country.
what does china and japan have to do with our fucked up college educational system? unless theirs is better I dont see the relavancy?
In my wife's dept. She has fewer in state grad students than foreign. This has been a gradual change since the regents have been de-funding the universities and making it more dependent on out state tuition. There is no reason to bring in an in state student for 20k per year when you can have an out stater at 40K or a foreign student at 80k or the child of some one that can make donation, perhaps.
SDSU kids have been complaining for decades about all the foreign students that are getting accepted. IMO at state run (and funded universities) foreign students should only be accepted once all qualifiying in state applicants have been accepted, (including out of state kids from states with reciprocity agreements) Maybe instead of jacking tuition or relying of foreign students the board of regents and university professors should look at trimming costs. To many people on pay roll that have no part in educating our kids these days. I am sure this is an issue at all public colleges, but I know I hear plenty of alums talk about professors they had 30 years ago that are still on payroll but cant be attached to any actual classes.
The costs have been cut, that ship has sailed. In the 90"s my wife gave 19% of any grants or funding she was awarded for research, to the university. With other 81% she was able to hire students and fund technology for her lab. She now has to provide > 60% to the University and has to use self funded students, or ones, that pay to work in the lab (foreign). She also purchases chairs and other lab equipment that was once part of the infrastructure. She also has to contract out for maintenance and repair, since all those positions have been eliminated. You now have fewer faculty and more associate "lecturer's", TA and grad students teaching, because the PI's that advance the knowledge and discovery are stuck doing the things they use to delegate.
@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"BigAl99" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: Shouldn't the bigger concern be over "student athletes" getting relaxed admission standards?Honestly the fact that these schools are propped up with tax dollars and the costs are still sky rocketing it really pisses me off that some Jack wagon that likely cheats and gets slid through the public school system "because the team needs him active" gets a better chance to get into a college that they will never graduate from than a kid who busted his ass academically, but can't hit a 15' J.
Maybe it's time to level the playing field and make all kids earn their way I to college through their academics and really put the student back into student athlete?
Also put in financial penalties for kids who take scholarships and then try and leave early for the pros. If they are that good they will make great money...make them pay back that scholarship with significant interest so that more kids in other areas can have the same opportunity to an affordable education. What does a free ride for playing basketball for Duke really do for a kid when they are there at 2 years tops?
Like in China or Japan? Your whole life is dependent on your entrance exams, unless your folks can afford to send you to another country.
what does china and japan have to do with our fucked up college educational system? unless theirs is better I dont see the relavancy?
In my wife's dept. She has fewer in state grad students than foreign. This has been a gradual change since the regents have been de-funding the universities and making it more dependent on out state tuition. There is no reason to bring in an in state student for 20k per year when you can have an out stater at 40K or a foreign student at 80k or the child of some one that can make donation, perhaps.
SDSU kids have been complaining for decades about all the foreign students that are getting accepted. IMO at state run (and funded universities) foreign students should only be accepted once all qualifiying in state applicants have been accepted, (including out of state kids from states with reciprocity agreements) Maybe instead of jacking tuition or relying of foreign students the board of regents and university professors should look at trimming costs. To many people on pay roll that have no part in educating our kids these days. I am sure this is an issue at all public colleges, but I know I hear plenty of alums talk about professors they had 30 years ago that are still on payroll but cant be attached to any actual classes.
The costs have been cut, that ship has sailed. In the 90"s my wife gave 19% of any grants or funding she was awarded for research, to the university. With other 81% she was able to hire students and fund technology for her lab. She now has to provide > 60% to the University and has to use self funded students, or ones, that pay to work in the lab (foreign). She also purchases chairs and other lab equipment that was once part of the infrastructure. She also has to contract out for maintenance and repair, since all those positions have been eliminated. You now have fewer faculty and more associate "lecturer's", TA and grad students teaching, because the PI's that advance the knowledge and discovery are stuck doing the things they use to delegate.
so where is the money going? cost to attend these schools is sky rocketing... there is all this "athletic money" coming into these universities which is apparently true since they are all building new athletic facilities.... where is the money if the costs are cut? It certainly seems like there is something missing from this picture.
while I honestly think of Bush Sr doing this shit to get Gilligan into college. (it was the first wealthy person that came to mind honestly) here is an interesting twist on this story.
https://nypost.com/2019/03/12/obama-familys-tennis-coach-among-dozens-charged-in-college-admissions-scheme/
The part of the story that sickens me more than the payoffs, lies and bribes is the mention of the kids theropists. If you are a multi millionare that has all the resources to give your kids everything in life and give them every opportunity to succedd in life and you child needs a freaking therapist then you are a piece of crap and have totally failed as a parent. You have totally failed these kids. They will go through the rest of their life not knowing how to blow their own nose. The funny thing is the hollywood dips*%ts like these people are the ones who take to the media and social media with their opinions that they feel we are supposed to accept because they are rich and famous therefore making them intelligent.
Interesting story I just read about Jared Kushner, who got into Harvard with average grades, average SAT scores thanks to his parents $2.5 million donation. And let's not forget Fred Trump's 7 figure donation to Penn to get Twitler into college.
I'm only shocked it's taken this long to be exposed.
@"SFVikeFan" said: Interesting story I just read about Jared Kushner, who got into Harvard with average grades, average SAT scores thanks to his parents $2.5 million donation. And let's not forget Fred Trump's 7 figure donation to Penn to get Twitler into college.I'm only shocked it's taken this long to be exposed.
Donations to get kids into colleges have been around since higher educations inception. Doesnt even matter for private schools since there isn't public money involved.
Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.
I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.
At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?
I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Why would people need to cheat to take the ACT multiple times? They let you take it 12 times.
They're not cheating to take the test---they're cheating by trying to get the re test done in a facility that has compromised ethics and will fudge the results to achieve a higher score.
@"Vanguard83" said: Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
As always, as you know, its not the kids: its the parents. And throw in social media and these kids are growing up with high anxiety. Helicopter parents that have no life of their own and micromanage their kids lives daily. Kids texting their parents 5-6 times a day from school. Zero coping skills. Parents in contact with teachers via email or text constantly putting pressure to raise kid's grades. IT IS INSANE. There are parents that call their kids at COLLEGE and wake them up every morning. No independence and no idea how to handle the slightest adversity.
@"Vanguard83" said: Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Well said. Some parents are driving their kids over the edge...literally.
Any wonder suicide rates are high for teens. It's a hard enough time to come to grips with things without having someone you love make you feel like you've failed, really before you even started.
@"suncoastvike" said:@"Vanguard83" said: Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Well said. Some parents are driving their kids over the edge...literally.
Any wonder suicide rates are high for teens. It's a hard enough time to come to grips with things without having someone you love make you feel like you've failed, really before you even started.
were did the mentality come from that everybody has to go to a 4 year college? hell there are some people that claim that its a "right" as an American to get a 4 year degree if they want it. well problem is we have an entire country that has been told that they have a right to pretty much anything they want but the notion of earning it hasnt been driven home.
@"Vanguard83" said:Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.
My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
@"greediron" said:@"Vanguard83" said:Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
Usually it's parents living their own dreams through their children because they either fell short of their own aspirations or wanting to keep them alive. When my kids chose their career paths, I never forced them to do it either this way or that. Like Greed, give them guidance and hope they are up to the hard work that will get them there.
@"ArizonaViking" said:@"greediron" said:@"Vanguard83" said:Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
Usually it's parents living their own dreams through their children because they either fell short of their own aspirations or wanting to keep them alive. When my kids chose their career paths, I never forced them to do it either this way or that. Like Greed, give them guidance and hope they are up to the hard work that will get them there.
Example is the best gift you can give your children.
@"ArizonaViking" said:@"greediron" said:@"Vanguard83" said:Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
Usually it's parents living their own dreams through their children because they either fell short of their own aspirations or wanting to keep them alive. When my kids chose their career paths, I never forced them to do it either this way or that. Like Greed, give them guidance and hope they are up to the hard work that will get them there.
i do agree to some extent... but there is also so much more involved for the parents now for their kids to be in sports than there was 20 years ago. I had a shit ton of money for camps, conditioning trainers, and travel and everything else that is basically required to even have a chance these days that when I saw my kid wasnt putting the same effort into his game as he was wanting me to make... yes I pushed him, but I also gave him the option of walking away anytime he wanted. I dont expect my kids to do anything more than their best effort, but I expect them to earn what they ask for and their way of earning was to put in the effort to get the results.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"ArizonaViking" said:@"greediron" said:@"Vanguard83" said:Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
Usually it's parents living their own dreams through their children because they either fell short of their own aspirations or wanting to keep them alive. When my kids chose their career paths, I never forced them to do it either this way or that. Like Greed, give them guidance and hope they are up to the hard work that will get them there.
i do agree to some extent... but there is also so much more involved for the parents now for their kids to be in sports than there was 20 years ago. I had a shit ton of money for camps, conditioning trainers, and travel and everything else that is basically required to even have a chance these days that when I saw my kid wasnt putting the same effort into his game as he was wanting me to make... yes I pushed him, but I also gave him the option of walking away anytime he wanted. I dont expect my kids to do anything more than their best effort, but I expect them to earn what they ask for and their way of earning was to put in the effort to get the results.
That is it right there. One of my boys quit organized football, partially because of the crappy coaches. I could sense he wasn't having fun and so I gave him the choice. I wasn't going to continue paying if he didn't want to do it.
I pay for some camps, and like you expect them to go and put in the effort. But I don't drive them to weights and sit outside the door. Heck, a couple of my boys rode bikes to and from weights.
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