Barr staying?

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Whacky. Of all the free agent signings or non-signings, this has to be the most surprising. I have a hunch the Vikings, after striking out with Richardson and James,  realized that had to do something to keep talent on their roster. Makes me wonder also if they might be reconsidering trading one of their corners. 

I think your points have a lot to do with it. But I would add that seeing Za'Darius Smith get $16.5M /yr, Preston Smith grab $13M/yr, and Mosley who is strictly and off the ball guy some get $17M changes the market a bit. The Vikings were wanting Barr back at $12M for well over a year. If you need to go up $1.5M to keep your guy when the marketplace is going insane, its a good move. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Whacky. Of all the free agent signings or non-signings, this has to be the most surprising. I have a hunch the Vikings, after striking out with Richardson and James,  realized that had to do something to keep talent on their roster. Makes me wonder also if they might be reconsidering trading one of their corners. 

I think your points have a lot to do with it. But I would add that seeing Za'Darius Smith get $16.5M /yr, Preston Smith grab $13M/yr, and Mosley who is strictly and off the ball guy some get $17M changes the market a bit. The Vikings were wanting Barr back at $12M for well over a year. If you need to go up $1.5M to keep your guy when the marketplace is going insane, its a good move. 

I also have to think the draft outlook played a part. If they had lost Barr, assuming no other additions, they would've gone into the draft having to add an OL, replace Richardson AND Barr. 

With Barr back, again assuming no other additions, they can take BPA between DT and OL at 18. Good value there for both positions. 

...and just as I was starting to take a liking to the idea of Devin Bush at 18. 

Pretty quiet on the Saffold front. 

@"Kentis" said: Probably took a look at the real estate prices!  :o :o :o  

Or the NY taxes...

@"FSUVike" said: Just came across the wire. Hmmm.

Somewhere, Aaron Rodgers audibly whimpered

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Whacky. Of all the free agent signings or non-signings, this has to be the most surprising. I have a hunch the Vikings, after striking out with Richardson and James,  realized that had to do something to keep talent on their roster. Makes me wonder also if they might be reconsidering trading one of their corners. 

I think your points have a lot to do with it. But I would add that seeing Za'Darius Smith get $16.5M /yr, Preston Smith grab $13M/yr, and Mosley who is strictly and off the ball guy some get $17M changes the market a bit. The Vikings were wanting Barr back at $12M for well over a year. If you need to go up $1.5M to keep your guy when the marketplace is going insane, its a good move. 

I also have to think the draft outlook played a part. If they had lost Barr, assuming no other additions, they would've gone into the draft having to add an OL, replace Richardson AND Barr. 

With Barr back, again assuming no other additions, they can take BPA between DT and OL at 18. Good value there for both positions. 

...and just as I was starting to take a liking to the idea of Devin Bush at 18. 

Pretty quiet on the Saffold front. 

Barr was going to be much harder to replace than Sheldon in the draft. I hadn't stated it on here but elsewhere I was a little nervous they were overlooking the loss of Barr. Although it can prevent stats teams align a lot of their protections to stop him. When they don't (Miami game) he light it up and destroys the game. 

@"FSUVike" said: Griff gone if he doesn't restructure: https://nfltraderumors.co/vikings-expected-to-release-de-everson-griffen-if-he-doesnt-restructure-his-contract/ 

He's too volatile now to trade. He can't be counted on so a good talent like Griffen will be marginalized because of his mental health stuff.

@"Tyr" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Whacky. Of all the free agent signings or non-signings, this has to be the most surprising. I have a hunch the Vikings, after striking out with Richardson and James,  realized that had to do something to keep talent on their roster. Makes me wonder also if they might be reconsidering trading one of their corners. 

I think your points have a lot to do with it. But I would add that seeing Za'Darius Smith get $16.5M /yr, Preston Smith grab $13M/yr, and Mosley who is strictly and off the ball guy some get $17M changes the market a bit. The Vikings were wanting Barr back at $12M for well over a year. If you need to go up $1.5M to keep your guy when the marketplace is going insane, its a good move. 

I also have to think the draft outlook played a part. If they had lost Barr, assuming no other additions, they would've gone into the draft having to add an OL, replace Richardson AND Barr. 

With Barr back, again assuming no other additions, they can take BPA between DT and OL at 18. Good value there for both positions. 

...and just as I was starting to take a liking to the idea of Devin Bush at 18. 

Pretty quiet on the Saffold front. 

Barr was going to be much harder to replace than Sheldon in the draft. I hadn't stated it on here but elsewhere I was a little nervous they were overlooking the loss of Barr. Although it can prevent stats teams align a lot of their protections to stop him. When they don't (Miami game) he light it up and destroys the game. 

Richardson is a good DT, but Barr has the rarer skillset and its a good draft class for DTs. We also at least have some options at DT already on the roster, where as our LB depth is much more quesrionable. Do you think thet DT is our most likely first round need or wouldn it be DE if need to release Griffen, though I like what Weatherly did last year.

@"Ralphie" said: Dammit!  Now BarrNone keeps his moniker!  I was hoping he'd take a new Treadwell avatar! ;)

I was working with him on some alternatives just in case:
RudyBreaksATackle
DiggsDoesntDropIt
CookGoesFor2(GamesOffTheInjuryReport)

Bullet dodged.

That wasn't a moniker entry.

Fun fact: after the debacle vs the Rams, Barr gave up 88 yards in pass coverage the rest of the year...

@"BarrNone55" said: Bullet dodged.

That wasn't a moniker entry.

Barr, I'd like to say I'm happy both of you are back "in camp"! ;)

I pictured Zim doing this

And Rick saying "OK, but no LBs in the first round..

The moniker needs to officially be renamed rebarr---reinforces a our D going forward

@"BarrNone55" said: Fun fact: after the debacle vs the Rams, Barr gave up 88 yards in pass coverage the rest of the year...

I think there was a general shift in the entire defense after that game.  Zim adjusted midseason and got the best out of his players.  Again.

@"greediron" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Fun fact: after the debacle vs the Rams, Barr gave up 88 yards in pass coverage the rest of the year...

I think there was a general shift in the entire defense after that game.  Zim adjusted midseason and got the best out of his players.  Again.

@"greediron" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Fun fact: after the debacle vs the Rams, Barr gave up 88 yards in pass coverage the rest of the year...

I think there was a general shift in the entire defense after that game.  Zim adjusted midseason and got the best out of his players.  Again.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Fun fact: after the debacle vs the Rams, Barr gave up 88 yards in pass coverage the rest of the year...

I think there was a general shift in the entire defense after that game.  Zim adjusted midseason and got the best out of his players.  Again.

They had changed their coverage concepts and after the Rams game they went back closer to what they were doing in 2016 & 17. I think the change was driven a lot by what happened against the 2nd half against NO and in the NFCCG vs Philadelphia. It just didn't work. The Vikings run a lot of very complicated coverage concepts but you need everyone on the same page or it breaks down really badly. 

Correct, Greed. Also, Hughes and Hill were getting plenty of time early. Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Barr and Kendricks were learning a new scheme that was part Man AND part zone with specific hand-off points in terms of responsibility.

And then you throw two Rookies into the mix. Yikes! 

But Mike's idea was right.

You guys remember many years back when Rahgers, Manning, Brees and Brady were just dissecting Zone Coverages so teams finally started drafting bigger, more athletic CBs and playing a lot more Man?

With spread, pick plays, misdirection at the Line, etc., now scheming guys open against Man I noticed a TON of teams going with a lot more Zone looks, which really seemed to slow those high octane Offenses down the 2nd half of the season.

I think it affected the young guys like Goff and Mahomes the most as they're  used to seeing guys beat man coverage and now all the sudden they're staring at a zone instead and don't have the fundamental understanding of where the natural holes are like the older QBs.

I expect Zimmer to go back to the hybrid look again but with greater success since he hopefully won't be relying on 2 Rookies to be involved in the learning curve.

@"FSUVike" said: Correct, Greed. Also, Hughes and Hill were getting plenty of time early. Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Barr and Kendricks were learning a new scheme that was part Man AND part zone with specific hand-off points in terms of responsibility.

And then you throw two Rookies into the mix. Yikes! 

But Mike's idea was right.

You guys remember many years back when Rahgers, Manning, Brees and Brady were just dissecting Zone Coverages so teams finally started drafting bigger, more athletic CBs and playing a lot more Man?

With spread, pick plays, misdirection at the Line, etc., now scheming guys open against Man I noticed a TON of teams going with a lot more Zone looks, which really seemed to slow those high octane Offenses down the 2nd half of the season.

I think it affected the young guys like Goff and Mahomes the most as they're  used to seeing guys beat man coverage and now all the sudden they're staring at a zone instead and don't have the fundamental understanding of where the natural holes are like the older QBs.

I expect Zimmer to go back to the hybrid look again but with greater success since he hopefully won't be relying on 2 Rookies to be involved in the learning curve.

I don't remember Hill getting much run early on, but I reference the PS game against Seattle in 17.  There was much consternation because we looked confused in coverage and suddenly the league had passed Zimmer by (in the preseason no less).  But he was working out the kinks in his route matching concepts.
That is also why I didn't have so much of a problem with Philly taking our D to the woodshed.  Zimmer has a scheme based on routes and tendencies and what teams do out of certain looks.  It really is the only way to keep up with the rules geared towards offense and the inability to play physical, especially across the middle (remember the possession receivers of yesteryear, big enough to handle the pounding of headhunting safeties).  So when Philly went off script, rewrote their offense in the wild card weekend, our defense was at a serious disadvantage.  We studied and built a play for one equation and they came out with a different one.  And we shut them down on the first drive.  But after they went up 14-7 on the pick 6, Pederson took some chances and found our flaw.  Double moves weren't part of what we were planning on stopping.  And with Rhodes out, Newman was exposed as an aging player who couldn't make up ground.  So once the flaw was exposed, he went after it again and again.
So this past year, as you say, we went back to a lot more zone than Zimmer had ever done.  We didn't buy any cover 2 dbs at the local convenience store, but without Rhodes physically locking down the #1, our hybrid coverage was not as solid.  It almost looked like the tampa 2 in the concept of keeping everything in front and making the sure tackle and making the offense drive the field bits at a time.  Chicago did this as well and killed Goff and the Rams because he couldn't stay patient.