Remmers gone

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

@"FSUVike" said: In what way? That Minnesota wanted him to take a cut or that he believes he can make more elsewhere?

After seeing the Bengals give Bobby Hart a 3 year 21 mil deal, I am sure he and his agent are fine with testing the market. Plus, there could be some bad feelings after being moved to guard when he was signed to be a tackle.  I could understand why he decided not to take a cut in pay after switching positions.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"FSUVike" said: In what way? That Minnesota wanted him to take a cut or that he believes he can make more elsewhere?

After seeing the Bengals give Bobby Hart a 3 year 21 mil deal, I am sure he and his agent are fine with testing the market. Plus, there could be some bad feelings after being moved to guard when he was signed to be a tackle.  I could understand why he decided not to take a cut in pay after switching positions.

@"MaroonBells" said: Maybe I'm overly hopeful, but I want to move so far beyond guys like Remmers and Compton that they become just painful memories. 

A. Men.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

@"Ralphie" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Maybe I'm overly hopeful, but I want to move so far beyond guys like Remmers and Compton that they become just painful memories. 

A. Men.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"FSUVike" said: In what way? That Minnesota wanted him to take a cut or that he believes he can make more elsewhere?

After seeing the Bengals give Bobby Hart a 3 year 21 mil deal, I am sure he and his agent are fine with testing the market. Plus, there could be some bad feelings after being moved to guard when he was signed to be a tackle.  I could understand why he decided not to take a cut in pay after switching positions.

I thought about that but wouldn't Rick have laid out to Mike and his Agent before they signed him that he was thinking about moving him inside at some point during the deal? Otherwise, why not complain about the move last year?

I read it as Remmers betting that if he lost the RT gig (and was never better than League Average at best at Tackle) that he could still have a lucrative latter half of his career as a Guard.

And then he learned quite rudely that he sucks at Guard and wants to suckered one last team into giving him Starting RT money like Kalil did to Carolina.

I mean, there's literally over a billion dollars available for one of the worst FA Pools I've ever seen and that money has to go to someone.

The Landon Collins deal. The Kwon Alexander deal. The Foles deal. The Bobby Hart resigning that you mentioned. Smart move by Remmers and his camp to try and get in on the bonanza happening right now if he can.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

I just don't think moving Elf will work. I understand he was better at Guard in college, but last year he gave up tons of pressures from a position that is usually part of a double team.

I'm sure a lot of that is lack of conditioning that prevented him from getting all his strength back after the injury. But he was never a mauler to begin with.

You draft Bradbury and now you've got a light, technically-oriented Center AND Right Guard. In a Division full of monster DTs.

A stouter dude like Lidstrom makes more sense to me. Leave Elf at Center, bring back Easton as a backup Center if Elf continues to struggle who competes for the LG spot, add a Tier 2 Veteran, a mid-round dude to force Isadora to step up or out and commit Collins to Guard. Plus Edison might develop with the new Coaches.

Really, unless they land Saffold which I highly doubt, or James, which I'm rooting against as I don't want to rush O'Neill moving to LT, part of the answer for next year is going to involve one of the younger guys taking a step forward under Dennison.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

I just don't think moving Elf will work. I understand he was better at Guard in college, but last year he gave up tons of pressures from a position that is usually part of a double team.

I'm sure a lot of that is lack of conditioning that prevented him from getting all his strength back after the injury. But he was never a mauler to begin with.

You draft Bradbury and now you've got a light, technically-oriented Center AND Right Guard. In a Division full of monster DTs.

A stouter dude like Lidstrom makes more sense to me. Leave Elf at Center, bring back Easton as a backup Center if Elf continues to struggle who competes for the LG spot, add a Tier 2 Veteran, a mid-round dude to force Isadora to step up or out and commit Collins to Guard. Plus Edison might develop with the new Coaches.

Really, unless they land Saffold which I highly doubt, or James, which I'm rooting against as I don't want to rush O'Neill moving to LT, part of the answer for next year is going to involve one of the younger guys taking a step forward under Dennison.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

I just don't think moving Elf will work. I understand he was better at Guard in college, but last year he gave up tons of pressures from a position that is usually part of a double team.

I'm sure a lot of that is lack of conditioning that prevented him from getting all his strength back after the injury. But he was never a mauler to begin with.

You draft Bradbury and now you've got a light, technically-oriented Center AND Right Guard. In a Division full of monster DTs.

A stouter dude like Lidstrom makes more sense to me. Leave Elf at Center, bring back Easton as a backup Center if Elf continues to struggle who competes for the LG spot, add a Tier 2 Veteran, a mid-round dude to force Isadora to step up or out and commit Collins to Guard. Plus Edison might develop with the new Coaches.

Really, unless they land Saffold which I highly doubt, or James, which I'm rooting against as I don't want to rush O'Neill moving to LT, part of the answer for next year is going to involve one of the younger guys taking a step forward under Dennison.

Chris Lindstrom really would be a perfect pick for the Vikings...  like I said before, he's the best (IMO) out of all the interior guys that are projected to go early given our scheme and positional needs. 

I'd take him at 18 and be done with it.  Is that a little early for a G?  Probably...  but sometimes talent, need, and scheme fit far outweigh these "out-dated draft tenants" that say you can't draft this position before x-pick/round.  Look at Travis Frederick...  Everyone laughed when the Cowboys took him in the first...  Damn good player.  Then you have guys like DeCastro, Zack Martin, etc. going in the back half of the first round and who cares if you take them at 18 or in the 20's...  BFD.

@"ArizonaViking" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

I just don't think moving Elf will work. I understand he was better at Guard in college, but last year he gave up tons of pressures from a position that is usually part of a double team.

I'm sure a lot of that is lack of conditioning that prevented him from getting all his strength back after the injury. But he was never a mauler to begin with.

You draft Bradbury and now you've got a light, technically-oriented Center AND Right Guard. In a Division full of monster DTs.

A stouter dude like Lidstrom makes more sense to me. Leave Elf at Center, bring back Easton as a backup Center if Elf continues to struggle who competes for the LG spot, add a Tier 2 Veteran, a mid-round dude to force Isadora to step up or out and commit Collins to Guard. Plus Edison might develop with the new Coaches.

Really, unless they land Saffold which I highly doubt, or James, which I'm rooting against as I don't want to rush O'Neill moving to LT, part of the answer for next year is going to involve one of the younger guys taking a step forward under Dennison.

Chris Lindstrom really would be a perfect pick for the Vikings...  like I said before, he's the best (IMO) out of all the interior guys that are projected to go early given our scheme and positional needs. 

I'd take him at 18 and be done with it.  Is that a little early for a G?  Probably...  but sometimes talent, need, and scheme fit far outweigh these "out-dated draft tenants" that say you can't draft this position before x-pick/round.  Look at Travis Frederick...  Everyone laughed when the Cowboys took him in the first...  Damn good player.  Then you have guys like DeCastro, Zack Martin, etc. going in the back half of the first round and who cares if you take them at 18 or in the 20's...  BFD.

Build the damn wall!!!

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"medaille" said: I can’t imagine there was any real mutual belief that Remmers would be starting.  It would have been a deal to be a backup swing tackle, which would have been excellent if he’d have accepted it.  That said, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to try and get another RT gig.  He’ll probably get something better than what Hill got, or at least he should.

That's how I read it as well. Can't let EVERYBODY walk until you know for a fact you've got some folks coming in and Remmers would have been a decent depth piece at Swing Tackle like you mentioned.

To be honest, I think the Vikings will be better off with Hill at swing backup than Remmers. 

Let's say we're able to bring in Ju'wain James at RT, that moves O'Neill to the left and, presumably, Reiff inside to LG. That potentially upgrades 3 positions on the OL. 5 if you then draft a center like Bradbury or McCoy and move Elflein to RG. Or you could just draft the RG (Ford, Risner, Lindstrom) and leave Elflein at center. Hill, Easton and Collins are pretty good depth.

I guess my basic point is that 1 free agent and 1 draft pick can do a lot to improve this OL. And I suspect that we'll draft more than one in the first 4 rounds. 

I just don't think moving Elf will work. I understand he was better at Guard in college, but last year he gave up tons of pressures from a position that is usually part of a double team.

I'm sure a lot of that is lack of conditioning that prevented him from getting all his strength back after the injury. But he was never a mauler to begin with.

You draft Bradbury and now you've got a light, technically-oriented Center AND Right Guard. In a Division full of monster DTs.

A stouter dude like Lidstrom makes more sense to me. Leave Elf at Center, bring back Easton as a backup Center if Elf continues to struggle who competes for the LG spot, add a Tier 2 Veteran, a mid-round dude to force Isadora to step up or out and commit Collins to Guard. Plus Edison might develop with the new Coaches.

Really, unless they land Saffold which I highly doubt, or James, which I'm rooting against as I don't want to rush O'Neill moving to LT, part of the answer for next year is going to involve one of the younger guys taking a step forward under Dennison.

I'm taking light on anchor strength. Knew not being specific enough would haunt me, lol.

And I got that opinion from watching a TON of ACC play. But really it's just a matter of personal preference. I prefer to not have two guys that use technique more than anchor next to each other in a Division full of monster DTs.

That doesn't mean Dennison et al couldn't make it work. Just not the route I'd personally choose.

@"FSUVike" said: I'm taking light on anchor strength. Knew not being specific enough would haunt me, lol.

And I got that opinion from watching a TON of ACC play. But really it's just a matter of personal preference. I prefer to not have two guys that use technique more than anchor next to each other in a Division full of monster DTs.

That doesn't mean Dennison et al couldn't make it work. Just not the route I'd personally choose.

Bottom line for me is that Bradbury is the best zone pivot to come along in years. It's damn near a gift. We'd be fools for overthinking this one. 

Personally, I think he's the best lineman in the entire draft, with the caveat that tackles like Taylor and Dillard are going to (and should have) more value than a center. 

That's where we disagree. I don't see him as a Blue Chipper ala Travis Frederick.

@"FSUVike" said: That's where we disagree. I don't see him as a Blue Chipper ala Travis Frederick.

You will. :-)

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: I'm taking light on anchor strength. Knew not being specific enough would haunt me, lol.

And I got that opinion from watching a TON of ACC play. But really it's just a matter of personal preference. I prefer to not have two guys that use technique more than anchor next to each other in a Division full of monster DTs.

That doesn't mean Dennison et al couldn't make it work. Just not the route I'd personally choose.

Bottom line for me is that Bradbury is the best zone pivot to come along in years. It's damn near a gift. We'd be fools for overthinking this one. 

Personally, I think he's the best lineman in the entire draft, with the caveat that tackles like Taylor and Dillard are going to (and should have) more value than a center. 

So the Vikings took a tackle that played fairly well in 2017, turned him into a horseshit guard, asked him to restructure, & when he refused they cut him. I’d say the asshole GM is still at it, IMO.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: In what way? That Minnesota wanted him to take a cut or that he believes he can make more elsewhere?

That Minnesota wanted him back at all. I wouldn't mind having an experienced guy like Remmers back as depth, but a "restructure," in my mind anyway, sort of implies an opportunity to continue starting, or at least compete for a starting job. Maybe I'm overly hopeful, but I want to move so far beyond guys like Remmers and Compton that they become just painful memories. 

@"Kentis" said: So the Vikings took a tackle that played fairly well in 2017, turned him into a horseshit guard, asked him to restructure, & when he refused they cut him. I’d say the asshole GM is still at it, IMO.

You know how I can tell you don't watch much NFL outside the Vikings? Because you charecterized Remmers play as fairly well.

In relation to Clemmings he did. In relation to the rest of the RTs in the League? Not so much.

Remmers was League Average on his best days. On his worst he was literally capable of losing a Super Bowl while getting destroyed by Vaughn Miller.

And let's not forget that the Coaching Staff were the ones giving more and more reps to Hill. It's pretty easy to tell that they'd already seen Remmers' ceiling and hoping Rashod had a higher one if he could develop.

Then you factor in Mike not a saying a single negative word when he got moved to Guard.  In fact, he said all the right things. I'm sure he and his agent saw the writing on the wall in terms of his declining performance and increasingly  injury-prone state and figured a move inside would lengthen his career.

But it turns out Remmers is even worse at Guard. And it also turns out that there was literally a Billion dollars of FA money available and what one team described as the worst FA Pool in many years.

So why take a restructure for what is almost a guaranteed backup role when you can maybe pull a matador Kalil and trick some team into giving you a shot at RT again?

We all know how that conversation goes. GM: Why should I give your client a zillion bucks when the Vikings and their awful Line didn't want him?

Agent: He was forced to play out of position Cuz the asshole GM liked a loser from the Jaguars Practice Squad better and then some no-name Rookie from Pitt. You know, that same school that produced Clemmings.

GM: Wow! Spielman sure is an asshole. Here's 20 million. How much of it do you want guaranteed?