BRob.02

@"Jor-El" said:

@"njvike" said: I can't comment on whether or not this rumor has merit or not, but I will say it doesn't surprise me. I recall Pops' vociferous disgust about Schpielman after Brian's departure last year. I have no insider knowledge by any means, but you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put the pieces together. Brian was asked to restructure and did. My guess is that there was some sort of "gentleman's" agreement regarding what the team would do with Brian, rather than formal language in a contract. Ricky and the Vikings reneged on that handshake agreement and Pops was justifiably pissed. I think that became common knowledge among Vikings players and didn't sit well with many...and giving $84 million guaranteed to a QB with a shit-ass record against winning teams, prime-time games, playoffs, etc., just exacerbated the situation.

Again, just my opinion. As an old geezer and longtime fan, I've learned to pay much more attention to what people/organizations DO as opposed to putting much stock in what they SAY.

Richard has talked a good game since 2006, but the results just have not been there. Spin the Vikings playoff record anyway you choose, but you can't find a more anemic 13 year stretch of playoff futility in the team's history than the current stretch the Vikings are on since Ricky took over the scouting and personnel departments. That's not my opinion...its a fact.

Peace.

NJ, I have agreed with you more often than many posters here, and for one reason: you usually describe a specific measurable that Spielman's Vikings teams have failed to meet: winning playoff games.
But holding on to aging players due to sentimentality, alleged handshake agreements, or even our sympathy for a player's father who hangs around, are NOT requirements of your "Just win playoff games" criteria. You could make a pretty good argument that being ruthless is a necessity for winning. Did the Vikings get closer to their playoff goals by honoring Jared Allen's contract for a final year (2013 & 5-10-1) or keeping Adrian Peterson around for a couple more expensive seasons?
You can justify steadily attacking Spielman if your reasons are consistent, but not if you criticize him for any and all actions, which may be contrary to each other.
Regarding the two players in the OP:
I think EG's value is overrated by a lot of people on this board, especially in terms of potential trades. He was injured in 2017, and in 2018 he had a mental breakdown and looked ineffective when he came back on new meds. So he's 31 and might be either a public embarrassment or a non-contributor - that's someone you take a chance on when he gets waived and will sign for a cheaper deal, not trade a draft pick to acquire and owe his full $12M salary. If this was the NBA the Vikings would probably be sending him to another team and giving them a draft pick to take his salary off our hands.
As for Rudolph, I would love to see a flex TE as a complement, but not necessarily a replacement. He's a bit overpaid but someone I would like to keep on the team. I think this "not interested in restructuring contracts" is the first salvo in negotiation by agents, anyway.

WWBBD?

If this was the Patriots they'd re-structure or be shown the door...

I know, such an easy, blanket statement right?  Its smacks of some truth in Rudolph and EG scenarios though. 

Very much ok with getting rid of Everson.  Rudolph has had solid production and isn't terribly over paid. 

I don't agree with any of the shit talking, but I agree with the core of what NJ was getting at.

I don't see why veterans wouldn't look to what happened with Brian and not be prepared to avoid that situation... I think you take the risk and ask the team to let you go ASAP so you can get into FA earlier, potentially have more options and actually have time to learn your new system/playbook.  ... there's potential that they are offered something extra lucrative.

I get that it's a "business," it's not a one way street. It's a "business" for players too. Sure, the Front Office has every incentive to do what they did and Brian wasn't the first that it happened to... but this reaction from current veterans when it comes to renegotiating existing deals is the ramification of making that kind of move...

I think without that shit, both of these guys probably enjoy their time here and would would have been open to the idea. When you find out redoing your deal just makes the teams liability for cutting you less, why do it? You can force the team to let you go and have more time to get shit together, even if it is for "less" than a renegotiation would pay out. A lot of times, that line of reasoning proves to be bullshit anyways as other teams offer more in competition with other teams anyways.

... none of that really hits on these players worth or value (because I don't disagree with the takes on these players either). I guess I too see a connection between BRob and vets currently asked to renegotiate and it's not surprising. It's disappointing to think that these guys both may have renegotiated without that happening last year...

I guess we will see soon if other veterans feel the same way about renegotiating.

whether or not the treatment of BRob affects other vets will remain to be seen.  As to the report, it could be summarized as such
Just my guess: veteran players not eager to take pay cut.

@"greediron" said:

whether or not the treatment of BRob affects other vets will remain to be seen.  As to the report, it could be summarized as such Just my guess: veteran players not eager to take pay cut.

Jimmy clearly doesn't watch ESPN. How do I know that? Because there is a large number of former Players from every team sport serving as commentators on the talk shows with a nearly Universal opinion that Players don't let what others Players are going through contract-wise get to them.

They don't care about who is holding out. Who is making noise about a new deal. Or who is in a tough restructure situation.

They only care about their own situation. And that is according to dozens of former athletes. It's the only thing they can control.

Now if we're talking Agents that's another thing. If Griff or Rudy has BRob's Agent it could get ugly as they absolutely hold a grudge with GMs and even Organizations.

@"FSUVike" said: Jimmy clearly doesn't watch ESPN. How do I know that? Because there is a large number of former Players from every team sport serving as commentators on the talk shows with a nearly Universal opinion that Players don't let what others Players are going through contract-wise get to them.

They don't care about who is holding out. Who is making noise about a new deal. Or who is in a tough restructure situation.

They only care about their own situation. And that is according to dozens of former athletes. It's the only thing they can control.

Now if we're talking Agents that's another thing. If Griff or Rudy has BRob's Agent it could get ugly as they absolutely hold a grudge with GMs and even Organizations.

Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

@"Bullazin" said: Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

or maybe we have had real interactions with him and heard him talk about issues from the past in person.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

or maybe we have had real interactions with him and heard him talk about issues from the past in person.

Or when you see heart, you want to reward that.  Most players don't have much loyalty other than the $.  And in a gladiator business, that is understandable.  But occasionally there is one that stands apart.  One that cares and truly wants to bring a championship to our team.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

or maybe we have had real interactions with him and heard him talk about issues from the past in person.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Its hard for me to buy the “speilman has a vendetta or lies”. angle.  its all business decisions. We all loved Brob, but it was a little overboard here in the reaction to the front office and i attribute that to the presence of insiders here and people wanting to be respectful to him/them.  

or maybe we have had real interactions with him and heard him talk about issues from the past in person.

Or when you see heart, you want to reward that.  Most players don't have much loyalty other than the $.  And in a gladiator business, that is understandable.  But occasionally there is one that stands apart.  One that cares and truly wants to bring a championship to our team.  

...which is why Spielman hated him? Maybe there are things I don't know, but this one has never passed the smell test to me. Just doesn't make any sense. 

The old saying "There's 3 sides to every story; yours, mine and what they print in the Sunday paper" applies here, IMO. And the ONLY side that has been heard from is the Player's.

Meanwhile, the FO signed the Top 2 FAs on the market last season. Despite the awful human being that RS allegedly is.

@"FSUVike" said: The old saying "There's 3 sides to every story; yours, mine and what they print in the Sunday paper" applies here, IMO. And the ONLY side that has been heard from is the Player's.

Meanwhile, the FO signed the Top 2 FAs on the market last season. Despite the awful human being that RS allegedly is.

lots of things dont smell right IMO and unfortunately a lot of them stem from spielmans chair.

@"FSUVike" said: Jimmy clearly doesn't watch ESPN. How do I know that? Because there is a large number of former Players from every team sport serving as commentators on the talk shows with a nearly Universal opinion that Players don't let what others Players are going through contract-wise get to them.

They don't care about who is holding out. Who is making noise about a new deal. Or who is in a tough restructure situation.

They only care about their own situation. And that is according to dozens of former athletes. It's the only thing they can control.

Now if we're talking Agents that's another thing. If Griff or Rudy has BRob's Agent it could get ugly as they absolutely hold a grudge with GMs and even Organizations.

I don't disagree with that - except a renegotiation literally is something they can control. It's not dollar amounts that they are comparing their situations to - it's comparing a precedent sent to their own current situation they are in control of. 

If they had no say and they team could flex/force new terms then i'd say yea, it's something out of their control and something they ultimately shouldn't worry about. It's entirely in their control if they are asked to take a paycut - they can say 'f off' and then go back to not worrying about the process.

Ultimately there are a ton of nuances to this kind of thing - but I would expect something like an expectation to be cut in camp to be mitigated in renegotiation on the agents side and it would be on the Vikes to decide if they want to have something like guaranteed money spread out over the deal. If the Vikes even try to write the deal in a way that makes it easy to cut them i'd know better and walk.

i don't really disagree with anyone either though - Rudy being harder to replace in my opinion that Griff - i'm ok with continuing to build these two positions with younger, less expensive, players. The cap relief will be nice; we are stacked seemingly at DE. I'm ok with moving on and like the idea of adding a new weapon at TE.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/2019-nfl-cap-casulaties-cuts/amp