OT: Student Loan Debt

Very sad. The cost of healthcare and college in this country is just crippling so many families who, as Bill Clinton always used to say "work hard and play by the rules."

You and your son are very fortunate. My parents couldn't even begin to pay for my college. I worked 2 jobs to pay for mine, but I went to a small college and, at the time, it was a fraction of what it is now. 

I have twins so I'm going to get a double barrel blast of reality in about 6 years. I'm the most pro-education person you'll find, but I'm sort of siding with my dad's age-old, anti-college rant. Learn a trade. If I had to do it all over again, I might still go get the degree, but I'd stay away from corporate America. I'd probably be a fire fighter...or a farmer...or a carpenter. 

the rules for financing student debt changed quite a bit about 10 years ago and it has forced a lot of parents to foot the tuition bill as opposed to the old way of letting the kids go through the traditional student loan programs and carry that debt themselves.  I had a few good years when my daughter was ready to enroll in college and she had zero decent options for financial loans besides going to a bank.   now I hear of NY wanting to give free/reduced college educations to illegals and my American born citizen of a daughter couldnt get any breaks?  (by the way she had a 4.1 something GPA through HS and perfect attendance,  but dammit if she could have shot a higher % from the 3 point line her ride would have been free somewhere I am sure.)

She will be fine as will I,  she opted for a cheaper local school instead of starting life 6 figures in debt and we paid as she went,  but this system is so fucked I cant even tell you how frustrated I was at the time. 

I would be totally happy to see our entire post secondary system collapse and the working parts pulled from the ashes.  make it more affordable for all and produce employable young people instead of the shit they are churning out in mass these days,  (worthless degrees and mountains of debt)

We know this all too well in our household. Each parent needs to determine their role in helping (if at all) with their kids college or vocational school tuition. 

For us it was minimizing the amount of debt he'd be saddled with and we were able to do that to a large degree. That said, he still owes too much, but far less than most. 

When my daughter graduated from college and was excepted into law school, there were only two ways to pay for it...student loans or out-of-pocket.  With student loans, my daughter would have to eventually pay back around $150 thousand dollars or $80 thousand out-of-pocket during her tenure.  So, as a graduation present and I didn't want my daughter starting her career and future that far in debt, I paid for her law school.  Also, I joke with her today that she is now my retirement plan down the road.

I went to college back in 00-04. It was $4k a semester for tuition room/board. I worked like a madman to pay for it and made it through without debt. But add 8% per year and it adds upquick. 

The biggest scandal not talked about is the out-of-control "higher" education costs.  College and universities sitting there with hundreds of millions...some over a billion $$$...in bloated endowment funds, non-stop building of science wings and labs, all the while appearing in front of their state legislators year after year, wringing their hands and pulling out empty pockets threatening to cut music and art programs if they don't get their annual 8-10% increases.  "Professors" pulling down 6 figure salaries who don't teach any classes writing articles only their peers read while your son or daughter get taught by other students in classrooms with hundreds of other students that look like a local theater.  And many of these same schools have athletic programs rivaling professional sports teams with hundreds of millions in revenue.
All for your child's a fine arts or business degree that my get them a $40,000 a year job but saddled with $200,000.00 or more debt.
Disgraceful.

There are a lot of systems in our society where the model is
fundamentally that the citizen has to use imaginary money (debt, insurance,
etc.) to pay for something they need (a house, education, health care) and
because it’s imaginary money and the numbers are so large, the supplier can
pretty much charge whatever they want, and we end up paying for it later in
time.  I think this is most easy to see
with housing where everyone needs a house. 
Everyone before you has driven up the price of housing such that you
need a 30 year mortgage to even afford a house, so you can either choose a slum
house for 30 years or a nicer house for 35 years or whatever.  The numbers are so daunting that it becomes,
what’s another 5 years.

The root of this is fractional reserve banking, where banks
can lend you an infinite amount of money that they don’t have and you have to
pay them back, but they get to keep the interest payments.  You should read up on fractional reserve
banking, because we’re going to have to replace our financial system in the
near future because of it.  One of the
problems with fractional reserve banking, is that most of the money is created
by people taking on debt, which gets destroyed when the debt is payed off,
there is never enough money to pay off the interest of the debt.  This means that people have to take on a new
debt to pay off the interest.  In
practice, it seems that each new generation is more indebted than the last.  Mortgages used to be 10 years, then 15, then
30.  You payed off your mortgage and are
debt free, but the money you used to pay off the interest payments was created
by the debt taken out by other people.

Fractional reserve banking is a toxic system, that siphons
money from the working class into the pockets of bankers, who can buy
governments via lobbying and give money to their friends.  It's designed to keep us perpetually indebted.

@"MaroonBells" said: Very sad. The cost of healthcare and college in this country is just crippling so many families who, as Bill Clinton always used to say "work hard and play by the rules."

You and your son are very fortunate. My parents couldn't even begin to pay for my college. I worked 2 jobs to pay for mine, but I went to a small college and, at the time, it was a fraction of what it is now. 

I have twins so I'm going to get a double barrel blast of reality in about 6 years. I'm the most pro-education person you'll find, but I'm sort of siding with my dad's age-old, anti-college rant. Learn a trade. If I had to do it all over again, I might still go get the degree, but I'd stay away from corporate America. I'd probably be a fire fighter...or a farmer...or a carpenter. 

It sucks because I needed a degree to get an interview, but it added nothing to my skills.  But without the degree, your application is ignored.  I am encouraging my kids to consider trade school as an option.  College is just such a waste for a large number of degrees.

@"medaille" said: There are a lot of systems in our society where the model is fundamentally that the citizen has to use imaginary money (debt, insurance, etc.) to pay for something they need (a house, education, health care) and because it’s imaginary money and the numbers are so large, the supplier can pretty much charge whatever they want, and we end up paying for it later in time.  I think this is most easy to see with housing where everyone needs a house.  Everyone before you has driven up the price of housing such that you need a 30 year mortgage to even afford a house, so you can either choose a slum house for 30 years or a nicer house for 35 years or whatever.  The numbers are so daunting that it becomes, what’s another 5 years.

The root of this is fractional reserve banking, where banks
can lend you an infinite amount of money that they don’t have and you have to
pay them back, but they get to keep the interest payments.  You should read up on fractional reserve
banking, because we’re going to have to replace our financial system in the
near future because of it.  One of the
problems with fractional reserve banking, is that most of the money is created
by people taking on debt, which gets destroyed when the debt is payed off,
there is never enough money to pay off the interest of the debt.  This means that people have to take on a new
debt to pay off the interest.  In
practice, it seems that each new generation is more indebted than the last.  Mortgages used to be 10 years, then 15, then
30.  You payed off your mortgage and are
debt free, but the money you used to pay off the interest payments was created
by the debt taken out by other people.

Fractional reserve banking is a toxic system, that siphons
money from the working class into the pockets of bankers, who can buy
governments via lobbying and give money to their friends.  It's designed to keep us perpetually indebted.

The problem, or potential problem, is one of a centralized banking system and all that entails. That's why there's bitcoin now, an alternative but we can all see their gigantic issues and they'll need some kind of regulation to ever be stable (which goes against their fundamental tenets). Governments combat the basic worry of fractional reserve banking by regulating and overseeing commercial banks, provide deposit insurance and act as lender of last resort to commercial banks. Banks are setup really for the wealthy anyhow, as generally their practices are predatory.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"medaille" said: There are a lot of systems in our society where the model is fundamentally that the citizen has to use imaginary money (debt, insurance, etc.) to pay for something they need (a house, education, health care) and because it’s imaginary money and the numbers are so large, the supplier can pretty much charge whatever they want, and we end up paying for it later in time.  I think this is most easy to see with housing where everyone needs a house.  Everyone before you has driven up the price of housing such that you need a 30 year mortgage to even afford a house, so you can either choose a slum house for 30 years or a nicer house for 35 years or whatever.  The numbers are so daunting that it becomes, what’s another 5 years.

The root of this is fractional reserve banking, where banks
can lend you an infinite amount of money that they don’t have and you have to
pay them back, but they get to keep the interest payments.  You should read up on fractional reserve
banking, because we’re going to have to replace our financial system in the
near future because of it.  One of the
problems with fractional reserve banking, is that most of the money is created
by people taking on debt, which gets destroyed when the debt is payed off,
there is never enough money to pay off the interest of the debt.  This means that people have to take on a new
debt to pay off the interest.  In
practice, it seems that each new generation is more indebted than the last.  Mortgages used to be 10 years, then 15, then
30.  You payed off your mortgage and are
debt free, but the money you used to pay off the interest payments was created
by the debt taken out by other people.

Fractional reserve banking is a toxic system, that siphons
money from the working class into the pockets of bankers, who can buy
governments via lobbying and give money to their friends.  It's designed to keep us perpetually indebted.

Fractional reserve banking is nothing new, its idea goes back a long way. Almost every banking institution in the world uses it. It predates the existence of governmental monetary authorities. I mean its genesis is simple: bankers realized a long time ago that generally, not every depositor is going to withdraw their money at the same time. Trust me, we won't be replacing our financial system any time soon because of it.

The problem, or potential problem, is one of a centralized banking system and all that entails. That's why there's bitcoin now, an alternative but we can all see their gigantic issues and they'll need some kind of regulation to ever be stable (which goes against their fundamental tenets). Governments combat the basic worry of fractional reserve banking by regulating and overseeing commercial banks, provide deposit insurance and act as lender of last resort to commercial banks. Banks are setup really for the wealthy anyhow, as generally their practices are predatory.