Guess defense still wins championships

Gurley playing hurt, Cooper Kupp out, The stage seemed too big for Goff.

@"holmanjp" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

Rams lucked out on 1st drive INT at 34 yard line 2nd drive pats made it to 28 yard line - missed FG

The game was not as close as the score, reflected.

I think Bill wanted to keep it close, so the Rams were not forced to go all out, catch up mode, and possibly switch the momentum.
Not saying he purposely missed a FG and called for an INT. It just ended that way, and he went with the, let them think they  have
a chance if they stick to their game plan.

Rams gave up 30 or more 7 times in regular season. Teams were just playing catch up most of those games.

What strikes me is our great #4 D allowed the Rams 38, and the 21st Pats held them to 3!!!

Hmmm...

Patriots prove yet again that defense wins championshipsThis marked the 46th time in 53 Super Bowls that a team that finished in the top 10 in scoring defense won the Lombardi Trophy, according to Rick Gosselin of the Talk of Fame Network.
The Rams’ loss now means none of the 11 highest-scoring teams in NFL history won a championship, per Gosselin.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/04/patriots-prove-yet-again-that-defense-wins-championships/

@"JimmyinSD" said:
what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"Ralphie" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Payton and Brees would have given Bill more of a challenge me thinks than young Goff and McVay. 

Oh, I don't know about that.  I hear tell these young, offensive geniuses are the future.  These old "game-has-passed-them-by" defensive dinosaurs are yesterday's news.  ;)


In all seriousness, Kamara would have.  Gurley is still injured (whether McVay will admit it or not) and Anderson is no longer an every down back.

Brees' experience might have been a difference maker. Goffs in-experience was painfully on display. 

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

The Ram's linebackers are really impressive. Littleton was all over the field and made that diving interception. Not bad for an undrafted free agent. 

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

@"Vanguard83" said: I dunno guys / gals, every year I get deeper and deeper into a funk over the Vikings.

I just don't know that I'll live long enough to see us win it all.

Had to endure historically pathetic teams like the Bucs, Saints, Seahawks win a SuperBowl. 

If God blesses me with another fifteen to twenty years of life, unless we see a dramatic turnaround, I may not get there with you all.  This "lose and NFCC every ten years" crap 
is getting damn old. Just like me

I didn't watch the game, but I was listening to a podcast with Nick Mangold the other day. Former center for the Jets. He said you never knew what Belichick was going to throw at you. He said they once played 4-3 in the first half and came out in the 2nd half in a 3-4. Totally confused the Jets. They didn't know who to block. Unpredictable. Always one step ahead. Playing chess when the other team is playing checkers. 

Made me think of what the Seahawks said of our offense this year. "We knew exactly what they were going to do."  What we showed on film is exactly what we did. Nothing new, no surprises, no adjustments. I'm convinced this is the biggest reason Flip was fired. 

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

I agree with Jor-el.  Having a good defense that averages in the top 10 at the end of the year is nice, but the turnover to takeaway ratio is a better indicator.  We were a ball-hawking D in the 70's but were the dreaded "bend-but-don't-break" in the 90's.  When Phat Pat was our anchor, no one could run on us but were porous in the secondary.

Getting back to being a takeaway D shortens the field and makes a QB's life easier as demonstrated by Seattle and most recently the Bears.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

Jimmy,

This is what we gave up against playoff teams:

Rams-38 Loss
Eagles-21 Win
Saints-30 Loss
Bears-25 Loss
Patriots-24 Loss
Seattle-21 Loss
Bears-24 Loss

Points allowed is another meaningless stat when it's averaged out for all 16 games. 
We were 1-6 against Playoff Teams which to me is a better indication of where this team is at. Their record is their record for a reason. We are not that good and were outcoached in a lot of games. 

@"holmanjp" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

MN 9th 21.3 points per game, 340 points (20) INT/fumbles

Rams 18th 22.3 or 1 more point per game allowed (30) INT/fumbles

MN won or lost how many games by 1 point

I would sacrifice 1 point per game for 50% more turn overs.

The game Rams played KC really skewed their over all points allowed per game average.
Eliminated that game they allowed 20.3 average the other 15 games.

Eliminate MN worst (38 points) against Rams they allowed 20.1 the other 15.

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

Jimmy,

This is what we gave up against playoff teams:

Rams-38 Loss
Eagles-21 Win
Saints-30 Loss
Bears-25 Loss
Patriots-24 Loss
Seattle-21 Loss
Bears-24 Loss

Points allowed is another meaningless stat when it's averaged out for all 16 games. 
We were 1-6 against Playoff Teams which to me is a better indication of where this team is at. Their record is their record for a reason. We are not that good and were outcoached in a lot of games. 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

Jimmy,

This is what we gave up against playoff teams:

Rams-38 Loss
Eagles-21 Win
Saints-30 Loss
Bears-25 Loss
Patriots-24 Loss
Seattle-21 Loss
Bears-24 Loss

Points allowed is another meaningless stat when it's averaged out for all 16 games. 
We were 1-6 against Playoff Teams which to me is a better indication of where this team is at. Their record is their record for a reason. We are not that good and were outcoached in a lot of games. 

Remember when people were saying that Zimmer's defense is so great that we need our offense to "just" score 21 points per game? There were stats bandied about showing how the defense was so good at holding teams to 20 or less.
The defense isn't doing that any more, is it? 21 points would only have salvaged 1 of the 6 losses to playoff teams. Our offense exceeded 21 points in another loss (Rams) and a tie (Packers).
In 2017, our defense held opponents under 21 points in 12 games - and we won 11 of those. In 2018, we only did it 7 times (and won all 7).
THAT is the key stat for this team's 2018 disappointment. Blame Cousins if you like, but his only flaw was that he didn't cover up a weaker defense.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

Jimmy,

This is what we gave up against playoff teams:

Rams-38 Loss
Eagles-21 Win
Saints-30 Loss
Bears-25 Loss
Patriots-24 Loss
Seattle-21 Loss
Bears-24 Loss

Points allowed is another meaningless stat when it's averaged out for all 16 games. 
We were 1-6 against Playoff Teams which to me is a better indication of where this team is at. Their record is their record for a reason. We are not that good and were outcoached in a lot of games. 

Remember when people were saying that Zimmer's defense is so great that we need our offense to "just" score 21 points per game? There were stats bandied about showing how the defense was so good at holding teams to 20 or less.
The defense isn't doing that any more, is it? 21 points would only have salvaged 1 of the 6 losses to playoff teams. Our offense exceeded 21 points in another loss (Rams) and a tie (Packers).
In 2017, our defense held opponents under 21 points in 12 games - and we won 11 of those. In 2018, we only did it 7 times (and won all 7).
THAT is the key stat for this team's 2018 disappointment. Blame Cousins if you like, but his only flaw was that he didn't cover up a weaker defense.

you are looking for a fight that isnt here.   our defense had a down year,  i never said they were great,  i simply said that points allowed is the most important stat IMO and that the Vikings were ranked 9th which wasnt saying that they were good in that dept.   the whole 21 points thing might have been different if our team could have held the ball a little.  we left our defense on the field way to much early in games which then turned into a lot of points the other way.  

my whole point to this thread wasnt about the Vikings defense,  it was the fact that our often shitty O was able to hang over twice as many points on the Rams vaunted defense, in their stadium, as the eventual world champs could do in a neutral site.   

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: what strikes me is our miserable offense hung 31 on that rams defense in their own stadium,  and the worlds greatest QB, coached by the worlds greatest coach, could only muster 13 points in a neutral site.

I think too many people get enamored with the stat sheet for our Vikings Defense instead of the impact they are having on the game. We struggle at forcing turnovers and taking the ball away and to me that is the true mark of a Championship caliber defense.  

So true - we were 18th in takeaways, 20th in interceptions, and always middle-of-the-road in those areas. Opponents don't fear our defense because getting forced to punt isn't as worrisome as a turnover.

the only defensive stat that really matters IMO is points allowed and we were 9th in the league.

Jimmy,

This is what we gave up against playoff teams:

Rams-38 Loss
Eagles-21 Win
Saints-30 Loss
Bears-25 Loss
Patriots-24 Loss
Seattle-21 Loss
Bears-24 Loss

Points allowed is another meaningless stat when it's averaged out for all 16 games. 
We were 1-6 against Playoff Teams which to me is a better indication of where this team is at. Their record is their record for a reason. We are not that good and were outcoached in a lot of games. 

Remember when people were saying that Zimmer's defense is so great that we need our offense to "just" score 21 points per game? There were stats bandied about showing how the defense was so good at holding teams to 20 or less.
The defense isn't doing that any more, is it? 21 points would only have salvaged 1 of the 6 losses to playoff teams. Our offense exceeded 21 points in another loss (Rams) and a tie (Packers).
In 2017, our defense held opponents under 21 points in 12 games - and we won 11 of those. In 2018, we only did it 7 times (and won all 7).
THAT is the key stat for this team's 2018 disappointment. Blame Cousins if you like, but his only flaw was that he didn't cover up a weaker defense.

you are looking for a fight that isnt here.   our defense had a down year,  i never said they were great,  i simply said that points allowed is the most important stat IMO and that the Vikings were ranked 9th which wasnt saying that they were good in that dept.   the whole 21 points thing might have been different if our team could have held the ball a little.  we left our defense on the field way to much early in games which then turned into a lot of points the other way.  

my whole point to this thread wasnt about the Vikings defense,  it was the fact that our often shitty O was able to hang over twice as many points on the Rams vaunted defense, in their stadium, as the eventual world champs could do in a neutral site.   

I'm not looking for a fight, but this is a good discussion. (If it seemed like my  "blame Cousins if you like" comment was aimed at anyone, that was in error - some people blame him but I wasn't singling anyone out.)
I do think total ppg for a season is far less relevant than per-game situational control. Maybe our offense could have held the ball more, but our defense didn't "stifle" anyone.
Mostly, I'm weary of a defense-centric team with lots of coaches and resources invested in that side of the ball always pointing out that the offense didn't support the defense sufficiently. It's always, "We have a great defense IF (insert complaint about the offense)". Truly great defenses take over games when their offense is coming up short.