Treadwell over Thomas, Cook over Kamera

That's some sweet hindsight there. Why not go straight to not being smart enough to trade up for Mahomes?

Do the aquisitions of Thielan, Hunter and Diggs help you at all? 

Smith and Rhodes weren't bad picks ether.

these are apples to apples picks.  The Mahomes thing is not. 

We reached for the lesser dynamic WR with issues of separation and took a fast but injured RB who ended up having a season ending surgery 4 weeks into his career. Throw in the skinny knees knock on Bridgewater, well we know how that turned out. 

Many of the warning signs with these two prospects have presented themselves in the NFL. 

How anyone wants to keep this guy who has swung and missed on many picks is beyond me.  He can pick a good HC once in a while (Childress ehh? Frazier Fail, Zimmer jury is still out), Zimmer’s coaches have developed all the mid round and late picks.  I guess you like being nice instead holding to accountability. 

we will not win a Super Bowl with this GM

Can't win them all..

@"FSUVike" said: That's some sweet hindsight there. Why not go straight to not being smart enough to trade up for Mahomes?

Because we needed Pat Elflein, Jaleel Johnson, Rodney Adams, Danny Isidora, Bucky Hodges, Stacy Coley, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Elijah Lee and Jack Tocho. You can't ever give up that kind of value. :s 

I get that it was sarcasm, but spit balling what we would have missed out on with hindsight... big deal. Not like stockpiling these late round picks is helping much. 

I don't even really understand how other teams even make it to the Super Bowl when we have the only GM in the league that can identify talent...

@"suncoastvike" said: Can't win them all..

understood but goddamn it is frustrating to see the lack of development of these two while Kamera and Thomas not only dominate but do it both for a team that has been and will be directly in our way to a Super Bowl

@"Skodin" said:

@"suncoastvike" said: Can't win them all..

understood but goddamn it is frustrating to see the lack of development of these two while Kamera and Thomas not only dominate but do it both for a team that has been and will be directly in our way to a Super Bowl

We'll one thing is Payton is an offensive coach.  The Saints run a better offense than the Vikings.  There is nothing wrong with Cook.  He had a knee injury.

@"Skodin" said: makes you want to puke. 

on top of that, the other QB we were interested in when teddy’s knee exploded?  

Nick Foles

get rid of Spielman, the man actually puts his damn shoes on vefore his pants! WTF

I am still not completely certain that Kamara is better than Cook. Obviously with hindsight you pick Kamara now. But Cook was clearly the better prospect coming out in my opinion. So clear I think literally every team would have rated Cook higher (including the Saints). Now the Michael Thomas miss and picking Treadwell really does suck.

I'd still take Cook over Kamara. 

@"Purplewhizz" said: We'll one thing is Payton is an offensive coach.  The Saints run a better offense than the Vikings.  There is nothing wrong with Cook.  He had a knee injury.

HOF QB dont hurt none either...

Treadwell was a wasted pick - right up there with Ponder and Williamson and I guess CP too. 

I think Cooks best days are definitely ahead of him. 

LMAO!! 

The OP is simply pointing out FACTS......why do Viking fan's ALWAYS feel the need to defend L'il Ricky when a poster even appears to criticize the wunderkind's picks? Has he picked some good players? Yes. Has he picked (and made some hilariously bad trades in which to do so) BAD picks? Um, I don't know, you tell me. The team has won exactly TWO playoff games in his 13 seasons with the Vikings (12 running the draft). How the hell can ANYONE say that is SUCCESSFUL? 

I don't get into the minutiae of individual picks, it's all about how the TEAM performs that matter. Number of Pro Bowlers and how young the roster is means jack shit to me. RS has had 12 years with the Vikings and another 8 or so with the Bears and Dolphins as a personnel executive. That is MORE than enough of a track record to OBJECTIVELY judge Ricky on his teams' ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS. The ruling from this judge : He sucks and has gotta go.

Treadwell over Thomas was a huge miss. But Cleveland took Coleman, the Texans took Fuller, and the Redskins took Doctson as well. Cook is also a better all-around back than Kamara. Foles isn't even a question about evaluation since he was going to play for Pederson or retire. 

The point being is sure the Vikings have some misses due to the front office. But they also found Danielle Hunter in the 3rd round, Kendricks in the 2nd, Harris as a UDFA, Everson in the 4th, etc.. 

Compared to other teams the Vikings have hit more than they've missed. So be careful what you wish for. 

@"Purplewhizz" said: We'll one thing is Payton is an offensive coach.  The Saints run a better offense than the Vikings.  There is nothing wrong with Cook.  He had a knee injury.

That was my thought as well.  Treadwell has shown to be a miss, but Cook and Kamera are not that big of a difference.  Cook is a better between tackles runner, Kamera is a better route runner.
But in that time we have had Norv Turner and Flip failing as captains of the offense.  Shurmur was pretty damn good last year and looks to be doing well in NY as well.

@"Geoff Nichols" said: Treadwell over Thomas was a huge miss. But Cleveland took Coleman, the Texans took Fuller, and the Redskins took Doctson as well. Cook is also a better all-around back than Kamara. Foles isn't even a question about evaluation since he was going to play for Pederson or retire. 

The point being is sure the Vikings have some misses due to the front office. But they also found Danielle Hunter in the 3rd round, Kendricks in the 2nd, Harris as a UDFA, Everson in the 4th, etc.. 

Compared to other teams the Vikings have hit more than they've missed. So be careful what you wish for. 

Oh, "Be careful what you wish for", the mantra of Spielman/Zimmer defense - translates as, "If you wish for a change you might get Les Frazier again," or simply, "We don't need to be the best, just make sure we aren't the worst".
"Hit more than they've missed" is a long debatable question for another time, but sticking to Treadwell for the moment: "Cleveland took Coleman, the Texans took Fuller, and the Redskins took Doctson"...yes, and those are ALL better than Treadwell!
                   Rec    Yds    TDs  (3-year career)
Coleman      61     789      5
Fuller          107   1561    14
Doctson      81     1100     8
Treadwell    56     517       1
Not saying any of those guys are All-Pros, but Fuller and Doctson are competent contributors with potential remaining and even Coleman was better (before injuries derailed him) than Treadwell.
But none of those were available when we picked, so now look at the next three WRs - not only Michael Thomas - picked after Treadwell:
Shepard      186    2219    14
Thomas       321    3787    23
Boyd           152     1856    10

There were 4 highly-ranked WRs available when Spielman picked Treadwell. He did not just fail to find the best of those, he found the WORST. It was a multiple-choice exam with 3 correct answers out of 4, and he picked the only wrong one.

@"njvike" said: LMAO!! 

The OP is simply pointing out FACTS......why do Viking fan's ALWAYS feel the need to defend L'il Ricky when a poster even appears to criticize the wunderkind's picks? Has he picked some good players? Yes. Has he picked (and made some hilariously bad trades in which to do so) BAD picks? Um, I don't know, you tell me. The team has won exactly TWO playoff games in his 13 seasons with the Vikings (12 running the draft). How the hell can ANYONE say that is SUCCESSFUL? 

I don't get into the minutiae of individual picks, it's all about how the TEAM performs that matter. Number of Pro Bowlers and how young the roster is means jack shit to me. RS has had 12 years with the Vikings and another 8 or so with the Bears and Dolphins as a personnel executive. That is MORE than enough of a track record to OBJECTIVELY judge Ricky on his teams' ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS. The ruling from this judge : He sucks and has gotta go.

So facts that you agree with are FACTS, but facts you disagree with are just excuses? 

I have issues with Spielman as well, but what did he do to you?  Leave you at the orphanage?  Steal your toys when you were 5?  Splash you on the sidewalk as he drove by in his Cadillac?

@"greediron" said:

@"njvike" said: LMAO!! 

The OP is simply pointing out FACTS......why do Viking fan's ALWAYS feel the need to defend L'il Ricky when a poster even appears to criticize the wunderkind's picks? Has he picked some good players? Yes. Has he picked (and made some hilariously bad trades in which to do so) BAD picks? Um, I don't know, you tell me. The team has won exactly TWO playoff games in his 13 seasons with the Vikings (12 running the draft). How the hell can ANYONE say that is SUCCESSFUL? 

I don't get into the minutiae of individual picks, it's all about how the TEAM performs that matter. Number of Pro Bowlers and how young the roster is means jack shit to me. RS has had 12 years with the Vikings and another 8 or so with the Bears and Dolphins as a personnel executive. That is MORE than enough of a track record to OBJECTIVELY judge Ricky on his teams' ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS. The ruling from this judge : He sucks and has gotta go.

So facts that you agree with are FACTS, but facts you disagree with are just excuses? 

I have issues with Spielman as well, but what did he do to you?  Leave you at the orphanage?  Steal your toys when you were 5?  Splash you on the sidewalk as he drove by in his Cadillac?

You can covet Thomas & Kamera, meanwhile I drule over their OL... the former wouldn’t be as good w/o the latter...

@"greediron" said:

@"njvike" said: LMAO!! 

The OP is simply pointing out FACTS......why do Viking fan's ALWAYS feel the need to defend L'il Ricky when a poster even appears to criticize the wunderkind's picks? Has he picked some good players? Yes. Has he picked (and made some hilariously bad trades in which to do so) BAD picks? Um, I don't know, you tell me. The team has won exactly TWO playoff games in his 13 seasons with the Vikings (12 running the draft). How the hell can ANYONE say that is SUCCESSFUL? 

I don't get into the minutiae of individual picks, it's all about how the TEAM performs that matter. Number of Pro Bowlers and how young the roster is means jack shit to me. RS has had 12 years with the Vikings and another 8 or so with the Bears and Dolphins as a personnel executive. That is MORE than enough of a track record to OBJECTIVELY judge Ricky on his teams' ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS. The ruling from this judge : He sucks and has gotta go.

So facts that you agree with are FACTS, but facts you disagree with are just excuses? 

I have issues with Spielman as well, but what did he do to you?  Leave you at the orphanage?  Steal your toys when you were 5?  Splash you on the sidewalk as he drove by in his Cadillac?