Zimmer's time should be up

I'm not going to dismiss your statements. You have valid points and I agree with much of it. I still believe Mike is a good coach but don't believe he understands where the NFL wants the game to go. The league is wanting more Fantasy less football. To win now you need explosive offenses and bend don't break defense. The defensive side of our team fits. The offensive side is lacking. Even with the weapons at hand. This Oline we knew could well sink us going into the season. Well it has. It has dictated what we can do. Maybe Kevin can game plan around this poor protection. He did work with Pat last year. Flip did not he had to learn for himself. He didn't get it. Now he's out. Maybe Kevin can revive some of what was working. If so he and Mike get to work together next year. If they don't fix this line we will never have the team the NFL wants.

I'll say this: if Minnesota's offense still looks like hot dog shit for the remainder of the year, its going to look very bad for Zimmer. He's fired 2 OCs during the season now. He'll be firmly on the hot seat for 2019. 

What a difference a year can make. 

Pressure to win will be 2x next season.

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

@"StickyBun" said: I'll say this: if Minnesota's offense still looks like hot dog shit for the remainder of the year, its going to look very bad for Zimmer. He's fired 2 OCs during the season now. He'll be firmly on the hot seat for 2019. 

What a difference a year can make. 

Didn't Norm resign?  I heard nothing that led me to believe that Zimmer forced Norm out. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"StickyBun" said: I'll say this: if Minnesota's offense still looks like hot dog shit for the remainder of the year, its going to look very bad for Zimmer. He's fired 2 OCs during the season now. He'll be firmly on the hot seat for 2019. 

What a difference a year can make. 

Didn't Norm resign?  I heard nothing that led me to believe that Zimmer forced Norm out. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

I don't buy the argument that somehow Zim has somehow become old and stodgy in his approach to "today's" game.  He's the head coach and sets team expectations across all three aspects of the game to do the very best with the talent given. He can't tell the D coordinator to coach a "bend-don't-break" defense.
This whole love affair with "today's game" and teams like the Lambs or Chefs is driven by the NFL rules committee handcuffing defenses in an effort to generate enthusiasm among a fan base that no longer wants to sit in these billion dollar palaces and watch spoiled millionaires pretend they're SJW's.  Last weekend saw many half empty stadiums across the NFL landscape at this point in the season.  Yeah, TV ad revenue is up but many supposedly marquee games had very low viewership, including the Vikes-Hags.
The point of this is like any coach, he's playing the hand he's given.  Cousins, Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook are all highly rated offensive weapons. That they are playing behind third-string talented O line given him is clearly on RS.  And I haven't seen any evidence that the offensive leaders or the defense is quitting on him.

"When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team."

That statement is really misleading.......when Zim went for it on 4th and 1 multiple times this year, does he not respect those coaches? We did it  couple times vs. Seattle.

Going on 4th down is becoming more and more popular in the NFL......it has nothing to do with respect or fear of the coach.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

Exactly.  Zimmer is a great coach. In his first four years, he's won the division twice (the Vikings had previously only won the division two times total since the 2001 season).  He's done this with about as much turmoil and uncertainty at the QB/RB/OL positions as you could possibly have.  We went from Rodgers toying with our defense and getting our asses kicked by GB every year to having a 5-1-1 record against them since 2016, including winning the division in Lambeau.

He's completely turned the defense around from the worst in the NFL to one of the best.  Top QBs like Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, etc. now struggle to throw for 200 yards (or sometimes even 100 yards) against us.  We have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from top to bottom.

There was a lot of change and turnover this year (new QB, new OC, Sporano passing, etc.) and we are still in control of our destiny for the playoffs with 3 weeks to go.  I guess if that classifies as a disaster that should cause him to be fired, some of you have pretty short memories of what shitty coaches actually look like.

The Vikings completely knee-jerked and fired Denny after his first losing season in a decade with the team (WTF were they thinking??!!!!!) and it took the team 14 years to recover and be consistently successful again.  I would prefer not to go down that path again anytime soon.

Ive only been a fan for 25-30 years so theres people on here who have suffered more then I have but some of you certainly havent been fans long enough if you think what Zimmer is doing deserves firing. 

He’d be hired in less then a day and it would take that long because hed have to fly somewhere

I guess the grass is always greener in someone elses pasture?

@"AGRforever" said: Ive only been a fan for 25-30 years so theres people on here who have suffered more then I have but some of you certainly havent been fans long enough if you think what Zimmer is doing deserves firing. 

He’d be hired in less then a day and it would take that long because hed have to fly somewhere

I guess the grass is always greener in someone elses pasture?

its the notion that because somebody kicks ass in madden or their fantasy team is pretty successful that they somehow know more than those that do it for a living.  or those that want change for the sake of change.   its funny  how vocal some fans become when the chips are down,  but narry a peep when things are looking good.   even last year,  13-3 and they were ghosts,  but as soon as the NFCCG was decided... here they come calling for somebodies job.

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

Exactly.  Zimmer is a great coach. In his first four years, he's won the division twice (the Vikings had previously only won the division two times total since the 2001 season).  He's done this with about as much turmoil and uncertainty at the QB/RB/OL positions as you could possibly have.  We went from Rodgers toying with our defense and getting our asses kicked by GB every year to having a 5-1-1 record against them since 2016, including winning the division in Lambeau.

He's completely turned the defense around from the worst in the NFL to one of the best.  Top QBs like Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, etc. now struggle to throw for 200 yards (or sometimes even 100 yards) against us.  We have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from top to bottom.

There was a lot of change and turnover this year (new QB, new OC, Sporano passing, etc.) and we are still in control of our destiny for the playoffs with 3 weeks to go.  I guess if that classifies as a disaster that should cause him to be fired, some of you have pretty short memories of what shitty coaches actually look like.

The Vikings completely knee-jerked and fired Denny after his first losing season in a decade with the team (WTF were they thinking??!!!!!) and it took the team 14 years to recover and be consistently successful again.  I would prefer not to go down that path again anytime soon.

How quickly people forget what it was actually like when Childress, Frazier, Tice... were head coaches here.  Remember the lamentations about Frazier's D?  Will he ever make a halftime adjustment? 

Zimmer is the best coach we have had since Bud.  He is the best defensive coach we have ever had.  He makes adjustments in game, his D routinely shuts down the top offenses and he isn't afraid to change.  He hired Norv because he wanted veteran leadership on the offensive side, but when it became apparent that Norv couldn't adjust to the tools he had, Zimmer forced a change (with the foresight to bring in another experienced offensive mind in Shurmur in the offseason). 

No the game has not passed him by, he continually adjusts, adapts and innovates.  His defensive concepts are being copied by other coaches.  It took a few games this year to figure out how the new rules affected the game, but since the Rams game, his D has dominated.  Against elite competition.  And this was a rather big adjustment, in season. 

I can't understand why people want to follow the Browns model of building a perpetual loser.

@"holmanjp" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

Exactly.  Zimmer is a great coach. In his first four years, he's won the division twice (the Vikings had previously only won the division two times total since the 2001 season).  He's done this with about as much turmoil and uncertainty at the QB/RB/OL positions as you could possibly have.  We went from Rodgers toying with our defense and getting our asses kicked by GB every year to having a 5-1-1 record against them since 2016, including winning the division in Lambeau.

He's completely turned the defense around from the worst in the NFL to one of the best.  Top QBs like Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, etc. now struggle to throw for 200 yards (or sometimes even 100 yards) against us.  We have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from top to bottom.

There was a lot of change and turnover this year (new QB, new OC, Sporano passing, etc.) and we are still in control of our destiny for the playoffs with 3 weeks to go.  I guess if that classifies as a disaster that should cause him to be fired, some of you have pretty short memories of what shitty coaches actually look like.

The Vikings completely knee-jerked and fired Denny after his first losing season in a decade with the team (WTF were they thinking??!!!!!) and it took the team 14 years to recover and be consistently successful again.  I would prefer not to go down that path again anytime soon.

How quickly people forget what it was actually like when Childress, Frazier, Tice... were head coaches here.  Remember the lamentations about Frazier's D?  Will he ever make a halftime adjustment? 

Zimmer is the best coach we have had since Bud.  He is the best defensive coach we have ever had.  He makes adjustments in game, his D routinely shuts down the top offenses and he isn't afraid to change.  He hired Norv because he wanted veteran leadership on the offensive side, but when it became apparent that Norv couldn't adjust to the tools he had, Zimmer forced a change (with the foresight to bring in another experienced offensive mind in Shurmur in the offseason). 

No the game has not passed him by, he continually adjusts, adapts and innovates.  His defensive concepts are being copied by other coaches.  It took a few games this year to figure out how the new rules affected the game, but since the Rams game, his D has dominated.  Against elite competition.  And this was a rather big adjustment, in season. 

I can't understand why people want to follow the Browns model of building a perpetual loser.

I agree, those coaches were bad, in 5 years each
Brad was .527, 3 playoff games .333
Mike .591, 3 playoff games .333

If MN cant beat Fins he will be .576
If he cant beat Det also he would be .569
And a loss to bears could have him sitting at .562

Not defending Brad but who really expect only 3 wins in 2010
after going 12-4 and 10-6 in the 2 seasons before.

I know it's a big if, But if MN goes 0-3
Mike will be sitting 3 wins better than Brad finished with

@"greediron" said:

@"holmanjp" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"vikingknights" said: Zimmer has taken this team as far as it will go. His philosophy has become old, stale, and figured out by the rest of the league.  His teams no longer scare people. His teams are no longer respected by the league. When teams go for it on 4th and 1, it tells me they have no respect or fear of Zimmer's team.

He has fallen into the mindset of Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier. What does not work this week, implement it into next week's game plan. Zimmer's team never run up the score or punish opponents. Instead of keep scoring, he goes into a soft conservative offense and it's worse with the defense who allow teams to score garbage points at the end of games to "eat the clock"  If Thielen does not recover the onside kick, the Vikings will lose to the Packers.  Up by 10 and it takes n onside kick recovery to win the game? Madness!

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

So what is your solution?  Hire one of the upcoming offensive geniuses like Deflippo to take over the team? 

Give me every one of Zimmer's years over the train wreck we've had basically since Denny Green left.  At least back in Denny's days we had one dominate side of the ball.  Zimmer will get this team righted. 

Exactly.  Zimmer is a great coach. In his first four years, he's won the division twice (the Vikings had previously only won the division two times total since the 2001 season).  He's done this with about as much turmoil and uncertainty at the QB/RB/OL positions as you could possibly have.  We went from Rodgers toying with our defense and getting our asses kicked by GB every year to having a 5-1-1 record against them since 2016, including winning the division in Lambeau.

He's completely turned the defense around from the worst in the NFL to one of the best.  Top QBs like Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, etc. now struggle to throw for 200 yards (or sometimes even 100 yards) against us.  We have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from top to bottom.

There was a lot of change and turnover this year (new QB, new OC, Sporano passing, etc.) and we are still in control of our destiny for the playoffs with 3 weeks to go.  I guess if that classifies as a disaster that should cause him to be fired, some of you have pretty short memories of what shitty coaches actually look like.

The Vikings completely knee-jerked and fired Denny after his first losing season in a decade with the team (WTF were they thinking??!!!!!) and it took the team 14 years to recover and be consistently successful again.  I would prefer not to go down that path again anytime soon.

How quickly people forget what it was actually like when Childress, Frazier, Tice... were head coaches here.  Remember the lamentations about Frazier's D?  Will he ever make a halftime adjustment? 

Zimmer is the best coach we have had since Bud.  He is the best defensive coach we have ever had.  He makes adjustments in game, his D routinely shuts down the top offenses and he isn't afraid to change.  He hired Norv because he wanted veteran leadership on the offensive side, but when it became apparent that Norv couldn't adjust to the tools he had, Zimmer forced a change (with the foresight to bring in another experienced offensive mind in Shurmur in the offseason). 

No the game has not passed him by, he continually adjusts, adapts and innovates.  His defensive concepts are being copied by other coaches.  It took a few games this year to figure out how the new rules affected the game, but since the Rams game, his D has dominated.  Against elite competition.  And this was a rather big adjustment, in season. 

I can't understand why people want to follow the Browns model of building a perpetual loser.

I agree, those coaches were bad, in 5 years each
Brad was .527, 3 playoff games .333
Mike .591, 3 playoff games .333

If MN cant beat Fins he will be .576
If he cant beat Det also he would be .569
And a loss to bears could have him sitting at .562

Not defending Brad but who really expect only 3 wins in 2010
after going 12-4 and 10-6 in the 2 seasons before.

I know it's a big if, But if MN goes 0-3
Mike will be sitting 3 wins better than Brad finished with

Looking at the roster, there is a huge difference.  Childress sold out and brought in aging vets to keep the dream alive.
Zimmer has replenished, rebuilt and developed players.  Stats can be tortured to say what you want.  There really is no comparing the two coaches.  And I notice you didn't put Zimmer's win percentage if he wins the next 3.  Probably didn't fit.

@"holmanjp" said:

@"greediron" said:

Looking at the roster, there is a huge difference.  Childress sold out and brought in aging vets to keep the dream alive. Zimmer has replenished, rebuilt and developed players.  Stats can be tortured to say what you want.  There really is no comparing the two coaches.  And I notice you didn't put Zimmer's win percentage if he wins the next 3.  Probably didn't fit.

.600

Whats your thoughts about Rick and the talent on the team?

After Mike goes 3-0 this season and 16-0 the next 2, he will be at .714

What was your feeling towards Green he was .610 with MN

Viking fan for 43 years.

Zimmer is the best coach we have had since Green and maybe better.  Green was known for building up great offenses and so-so defenses.  So far, I would say Zimmer is the opposite.  In very limited playoff experience for Zimmer I would say he has been outcoached.  I think Zimmer is great at making defensive adjustments during a game and after halftime.  I do think he makes too many mistakes along the sideline as HC.  

I have been an ardent supporter of Zimmer since he was hired by Rick.  I have to admit this season, and the Eagles fiasco, has knocked him down a peg for me.  He is no longer above reproach.  The Bills game was shocking...I know about Griffen but I mean this team checked out that game.  Then you have Zimmer talking about how he didn't have the team prepared for the Patriots to then follow that up with a playoff game vs Seahawks that didn't look like the offense was prepared for anything again? OK, so he fired his OC which was needed but the coaching buck stops with him.   He is responsible for the whole team not just defense.  Our OL has not improved since he has been here with a couple different OL coaches and our ST (Pfiffer) seems to get worse every year.

I am starting to worry about Zimmer being a Buddy Ryan one dimensional (defensive coach) and not a team HC.  

I want to see how this team reacts the rest of the season.  Not saying I am ready to move on from Zimmer but I am certainly in scrutiny mode now.  I expect him to get through his remaining contract year and probably retire. 

@"vikingknights" said:

If the Vikings do make the playoffs this year, it will be merely an extension of prolonging the inevitable one more week.

  
31 teams have been prolonging the inevitable since week one. I'll take the extra week!

@"minny65" said: Viking fan for 43 years.

Zimmer is the best coach we have had since Green and maybe better.  Green was known for building up great offenses and so-so defenses.  So far, I would say Zimmer is the opposite.  

I'd say Zimmer has built quite an offense. Or Spielman, in reality. But look, no team is perfect. No team has elite units across the board, but even the Vikings offense is probably better than average at every unit except for the line. QB, TE, WR, RB....all very good units. But they're not playing like it. We saw glimpses of a very good offense in the first half of the season, but teams eventually figured out what Flip was doing, to the point where they knew the play call based on the formation. 

There's not enough time to tear it all down and rebuild it, but my hope is that Stef can at least reevaluate the schematics, the plays, the line, the receivers, the backs and the QB, figure out what it is they do well and what it is they don't do well, push the strengths, pull the weaknesses and get them all back in sync. And for the love of God, be a little less predictable.