A little bit of negativity...

Oracle mentions that in his misc thoughts as well.  I was noticing the same this year.  I wonder if LJ is bothered by his leg injury to some extent.

@"greediron" said: Oracle mentions that in his misc thoughts as well.  I was noticing the same this year.  I wonder if LJ is bothered by his leg injury to some extent.

I kinda hope so.. I can excuse that.. But there are a LOT of good DL players that can plug up a double team.. He should be towards the top of the list for that. Just my opinion I guess. but I hope he gets it figured out. I know he's better than that. 

He's getting doubled all the time. Richardson should be doing a better job stuffing the run when he's singled up. Kendricks should be doing a better job when both DTs get doubled like the Packers did a lot.

For all the talk here and from Zimmer about how important a pass rushing 3T is nobody ever seems to mention how opponents getting 4 yards on 1st Down rushes up the gut really opens up an OCs' playbook on 2nd down.

Someone will likely point out the Defense's lofty rush yards against numbers but that stat is in a vacuum. You don't need to rush for 100 yards if you're  getting yardage on 1st down to make misdirection and play action effective.

Meanwhile, Minnesota can't run up the gut enough to let JDF open things all the way up.

Personally, I'd like to see Jaleel and Jalyn get some more snaps once the playoff push dies so we can see what they might be able to contribute down the road.

@"FSUVike" said: He's getting doubled all the time. Richardson should be doing a better job stuffing the run when he's singled up. Kendricks should be doing a better job when both DTs get doubled like the Packers did a lot.

For all the talk here and from Zimmer about how important a pass rushing 3T is nobody ever seems to mention how opponents getting 4 yards on 1st Down rushes up the gut really opens up an OCs' playbook on 2nd down.

Someone will likely point out the Defense's lofty rush yards against numbers but that stat is in a vacuum. You don't need to rush for 100 yards if you're  getting yardage on 1st down to make misdirection and play action effective.

Meanwhile, Minnesota can't run up the gut enough to let JDF open things all the way up.

Personally, I'd like to see Jaleel and Jalyn get some more snaps once the playoff push dies so we can see what they might be able to contribute down the road.

It does seem we give up easy yardage, but the number just don't seem to bear it out.  If we were consistently bad, our 3rd down numbers would likely be much worse.

Thankfully the draft is loaded with defensive tackles this year.
Looking at Joseph's age and salary and it may be prudent to start considering his replacement.
I give you ...
Dexter Lawrence DT Clemson  6'3" 350

I agree about our D-Line's (and our LBs) inability to stop the run.  I don't know if it's a conscious decision, or a scheme thing... but we suck vs. the run (on first down, anyway).  I remember watching one of the replays where they should the Packer OL doubling both of our DTs.  And they singled up vs. our DE.  Where were our LBs?  That's a LB dream!  Yet the Packer still got a big chunk of running yardage.  I don't know what the issue is (but I, too, have seen our DTs getting pushed back), but I hope we get it fixed.

@"MarkSP18" said:

Thankfully the draft is loaded with defensive tackles this year. Looking at Joseph's age and salary and it may be prudent to start considering his replacement. I give you ... Dexter Lawrence DT Clemson  6'3" 350

Is Dexter Lawrence going to be there in round 4? My sense is we'll need to trade up into the top 10 to touch him.
Replacement for Joseph? Just 15 months ago, this team signed him to a 4-year extension, and he's only 29. We've got 2 young DTs on the roster supposedly very talented and only in need of good defensive coaching, which we also supposedly have in abundance.
Let's all quit suggesting defensive players for Zimmer to lust after. Even after they draft a couple of OL, this offense needs a dangerous #3 WR, another TE, and a RB (depth if Cook recaptures his early form, more if he doesn't).
This team better be ready to roll with the impressive defensive talent they have collected - does anyone doubt the Cousins contract is a deadline for winning a Super Bowl?

@"pumpf" said: I agree about our D-Line's (and our LBs) inability to stop the run.  I don't know if it's a conscious decision, or a scheme thing... but we suck vs. the run (on first down, anyway).  I remember watching one of the replays where they should the Packer OL doubling both of our DTs.  And they singled up vs. our DE.  Where were our LBs?  That's a LB dream!  Yet the Packer still got a big chunk of running yardage.  I don't know what the issue is (but I, too, have seen our DTs getting pushed back), but I hope we get it fixed.

I wonder if it is scheme as well.  It seems frustrating watching the game, but at the end, the stats favor our defense.  Perhaps we are more intent on stopping the passing game with the LBs and have to sacrifice the run D to do it?  If we were as bad as it seems at times, teams would just keep running and have much better success against our D.  But instead, our D is lights out on 3rd down again and really limiting some very good QBs. I have seen it mentioned a few times about the D keeping it simple on 1st and 2nd and then getting exotic on 3rd.  Is the plan to limit the gains and get teams into 3rd downs where the D can shine?  This would limit the amount of looks on tape as we aren't showing much on 1st and 2nd, and leading to a distinct advantage on 3rd. Dunno, but whatever it is, it seems to be working for the D.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

Thankfully the draft is loaded with defensive tackles this year. Looking at Joseph's age and salary and it may be prudent to start considering his replacement. I give you ... Dexter Lawrence DT Clemson  6'3" 350

Is Dexter Lawrence going to be there in round 4? My sense is we'll need to trade up into the top 10 to touch him.
Replacement for Joseph? Just 15 months ago, this team signed him to a 4-year extension, and he's only 29. We've got 2 young DTs on the roster supposedly very talented and only in need of good defensive coaching, which we also supposedly have in abundance.
Let's all quit suggesting defensive players for Zimmer to lust after. Even after they draft a couple of OL, this offense needs a dangerous #3 WR, another TE, and a RB (depth if Cook recaptures his early form, more if he doesn't).
This team better be ready to roll with the impressive defensive talent they have collected - does anyone doubt the Cousins contract is a deadline for winning a Super Bowl?

3rd overall D, 11th in points allowed, top 5 vs the run, only 1 team has given up less explosive runs...now, if anyone wants to complain about the pass D, particularly regarding explosive plays, that's an easy case to make...

@"BarrNone55" said: 3rd overall D, 11th in points allowed, top 5 vs the run, only 1 team has given up less explosive runs...now, if anyone wants to complain about the pass D, particularly regarding explosive plays, that's an easy case to make...

If I run up the gut for 4+ yards on 1st down and nail a chunk play to an RB or TE on 2nd down off of Play Action or misdirection are you still great against the run? Or am I successfully using it to set everything else up and don't need to rush for 100 yards a game to get my points?

Same scenario, different question: if I convert on 1st and 2nd down a bunch is you being great on 3rd downs as relevant?

That's just a few examples of how stats can mislead.

I trust my eyes. And they're telling me that teams are having enough success running up the middle on 1st down to open up their entire playbook. And on Offense Minnesota is having the exact opposite problem.

I'm also not sold on the overall Defensive ranking. They've faced exactly 2 teams with winning records and 1 of them completely dominated Zimmer's  D. Jets, Cards, Lions, Eagles, and even the Packers. Not exactly a Murderers Row of Offenses.

I'm not trying to call anyone out. Just me and my eyes telling me something different  than what the stats say.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: 3rd overall D, 11th in points allowed, top 5 vs the run, only 1 team has given up less explosive runs...now, if anyone wants to complain about the pass D, particularly regarding explosive plays, that's an easy case to make...

If I run up the gut for 4+ yards on 1st down and nail a chunk play to an RB or TE on 2nd down off of Play Action or misdirection are you still great against the run? Or am I successfully using it to set everything else up and don't need to rush for 100 yards a game to get my points?

Same scenario, different question: if I convert on 1st and 2nd down a bunch is you being great on 3rd downs as relevant?

That's just a few examples of how stats can mislead.

I trust my eyes. And they're telling me that teams are having enough success running up the middle on 1st down to open up their entire playbook. And on Offense Minnesota is having the exact opposite problem.

I'm also not sold on the overall Defensive ranking. They've faced exactly 2 teams with winning records and 1 of them completely dominated Zimmer's  D. Jets, Cards, Lions, Eagles, and even the Packers. Not exactly a Murderers Row of Offenses.

I'm not trying to call anyone out. Just me and my eyes telling me something different  than what the stats say.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: 3rd overall D, 11th in points allowed, top 5 vs the run, only 1 team has given up less explosive runs...now, if anyone wants to complain about the pass D, particularly regarding explosive plays, that's an easy case to make...

If I run up the gut for 4+ yards on 1st down and nail a chunk play to an RB or TE on 2nd down off of Play Action or misdirection are you still great against the run? Or am I successfully using it to set everything else up and don't need to rush for 100 yards a game to get my points?

Same scenario, different question: if I convert on 1st and 2nd down a bunch is you being great on 3rd downs as relevant?

That's just a few examples of how stats can mislead.

I trust my eyes. And they're telling me that teams are having enough success running up the middle on 1st down to open up their entire playbook. And on Offense Minnesota is having the exact opposite problem.

I'm also not sold on the overall Defensive ranking. They've faced exactly 2 teams with winning records and 1 of them completely dominated Zimmer's  D. Jets, Cards, Lions, Eagles, and even the Packers. Not exactly a Murderers Row of Offenses.

I'm not trying to call anyone out. Just me and my eyes telling me something different  than what the stats say.

I like numbers, they aren't subjective.

@"BarrNone55" said: I like numbers, they aren't subjective.

no,   but their presentation can be.  stats are numbers and depending on how those stats are compiled and presented can really paint wildly different pictures.

like in our loses, our O was often leaving our D on the field for to much of the first halves of the games,  our offense not getting going early in the game is very wearing on a defense and will make them more prone to explosive plays as they get tired and feel the weight of the game bearing down on them.

@"BarrNone55" said: I like numbers, they aren't subjective.

Some stats can be tortured for sure to reach different conclusions, depending on the personal agenda. I see it all the time by the sports media as they can paint any picture they want to fit their articles.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: I like numbers, they aren't subjective.

Some stats can be tortured for sure to reach different conclusions, depending on the personal agenda. I see it all the time by the sports media as they can paint any picture they want to fit their articles.

Yea I have always said, numbers don't lie, but they can sure be manipulated.  I was an accounting/finance major fwiw

@"FSUVike" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: 3rd overall D, 11th in points allowed, top 5 vs the run, only 1 team has given up less explosive runs...now, if anyone wants to complain about the pass D, particularly regarding explosive plays, that's an easy case to make...

If I run up the gut for 4+ yards on 1st down and nail a chunk play to an RB or TE on 2nd down off of Play Action or misdirection are you still great against the run? Or am I successfully using it to set everything else up and don't need to rush for 100 yards a game to get my points?

Same scenario, different question: if I convert on 1st and 2nd down a bunch is you being great on 3rd downs as relevant?

That's just a few examples of how stats can mislead.

I trust my eyes. And they're telling me that teams are having enough success running up the middle on 1st down to open up their entire playbook. And on Offense Minnesota is having the exact opposite problem.

I'm also not sold on the overall Defensive ranking. They've faced exactly 2 teams with winning records and 1 of them completely dominated Zimmer's  D. Jets, Cards, Lions, Eagles, and even the Packers. Not exactly a Murderers Row of Offenses.

I'm not trying to call anyone out. Just me and my eyes telling me something different  than what the stats say.

Here's a stat for you.....nothing subjective about it.

According to Pro Football Focus, #Vikings Kirk Cousins is the most pressured quarterback in the NFL but has the 4th-best efficiency rating among QBs when facing pressure. But the Patriots on Sunday will provide a challenge with their ability to disrupt QBs