A few thoughts

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Not sure how accurate this is, but it's Bleacher Reports top guards available next year. Resign Easton, sign one of these guys and draft OL in the 2nd round. 

Guard
1. Ali Marpet, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2. Shaq Mason, New England Patriots
3. Quinton Spain, Tennessee Titans
4. Mike Iupati, Arizona Cardinals
5. Jack Mewhort, Indianapolis Colts

Guard isn't as glamorous as tackle, but the price tags for some of the league's best interior blockers rival their counterparts. Marpet should be the next to receive a large check because he can excel at both guard spots and center.
Mason is one of the game's best run-blockers, while Spain is 26 years old with 27 starts over the last two seasons.
Iupati and Mewhort could be higher on the list if not for their injury histories.

Good approach but I would edit this: " draft OL in the 2nd round" to "draft OL in the FIRST round".
I know that draft reports currently list no OG worth the 1st round, but Frank Ragnow and Billy Price were considered day 2 (or later) at this point last year. If we want an OL who can start, don't count on getting lucky in round 2. What are we going to prioritize for the first round instead of OL, anyway?

Right now I would say Barr's replacement. 

or Richardsons,  I keep hearing how there are supposed to be some damn fine DT coming in the 19 draft class,  lets get our own Donald to help distrupt the middle of the opposing teams OL.

Aaron Donald is a once in a generation player. When you already have a guy like Richardson who wants to stay and won't cost you a draft pick, I'd just give him Barr's money. It's early though. It's a bad sign I'm already thinking of off season moves. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

We can't expect rookie olinemen to start day one.  I will be pissed if rick doesn't find a quality OG in FA.

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

We can't expect rookie olinemen to start day one.  I will be pissed if rick doesn't find a quality OG in FA.

I forgot to add Remmers to that list. I disagree that you can't find a rookie interior lineman to start day 1. There will be plenty of options. Maybe not as deep as last year, but finding interior lineman who can come in and start should be available to us in the late first or second round. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

We can't expect rookie olinemen to start day one.  I will be pissed if rick doesn't find a quality OG in FA.

I forgot to add Remmers to that list. I disagree that you can't find a rookie interior lineman to start day 1. There will be plenty of options. Maybe not as deep as last year, but finding interior lineman who can come in and start should be available to us in the late first or second round. 

I'm not saying that they aren't available,   im just saying that to count on the draft to find a player that has to start year 1 is a bad plan IMO.  I don't want to rely on the draft to fill holes in the starting lineup.   And we will have 2 holes at OG,  Easton might fill one,  but that still leaves the RG spot.  Amd lie I said earlier,  even counting on Easton will make me nervous after a whole year off.

Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Jimmy, the Colts have 1st and 2nd year players on their O-Line, which is much better than Minnesota's. Of course you can count on Rookies to start. Elf is a prime example.

There probably isn't a pure OG that currently grades as a 1st Round talent, but there are at least 4 OTs that will go in that round and many of them project better as Guards and RTs.

I agree with the consensus regarding Easton. He's League Average, which is better than Remmers, Compton and Isidora. Need him back to battle for a Starting spot. He'd also be insurance against Elf not returning to full strength, provided that Easton himself comes back all the way healed.

Personally, I'd sign Roger Saffold away from the Rams and draft Dalton Risner or Greg Little to play RG for a year or two and then kick out and take over RT once O'Neill replaces Reiff. 

Rick won't pursue Saffold because he's already 30 so a stealthier move might be the kid Glowinski in Indy. His surprising level of play has helped Nelson and especially Smith and he won't cost a lot.

As for Richardson, the consistency doesn't match the hype or the contract he's going to ask for and this Draft has more pass rushing 3Ts than normal.

It's entirely possible that Rick can replace Sheldon with a 1st Round pick and still land a starting O-Lineman in the 2nd. That's where both the Badger kids and the Bama OG with the horrendous last name are currently slated.

I'd also like to see a 4th used at OT/OG. Need someone to push Izzy to get better or get gone and in case Collins doesn't make it all the way back from injury.

As for the game itself, meh. This is simply not a good Green Bay team. Erin has looked off all season. Should have put them away earlier just like every other sub 500 team they've beaten.

The Defense looked good against the Saints but hasn't exactly been facing world beaters otherwise. I'll believe they are back when they perform against a winning team on the road. The good news is that they'll get two chances in a row to prove it.

Not sold on JDF yet. And has anyone noticed that Cousins is starting to bird dog Thielen and Diggs ala Keenum?

Always great to beat a rival but I need to see more before I buy back in.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

We can't expect rookie olinemen to start day one.  I will be pissed if rick doesn't find a quality OG in FA.

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

We can't expect rookie olinemen to start day one.  I will be pissed if rick doesn't find a quality OG in FA.

Rick never brings in the top tier free agents to play O- line. He waits for the second tier, less expensive free agents. That's why they end up with the Comptons, Remmers, and Reifs. And while Reif has been solid, the other two should be back ups at best. I see a lot of talk about Easton returning, and he would be an upgrade, but not much. Berger was solid. Easton, not so much. So while I agree they need to bring in a quality OG in free agency, I'm skeptical given their past history of evaluating O- line talent.

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Jimmy, the Colts have 1st and 2nd year players on their O-Line, which is much better than Minnesota's. Of course you can count on Rookies to start. Elf is a prime example.

There probably isn't a pure OG that currently grades as a 1st Round talent, but there are at least 4 OTs that will go in that round and many of them project better as Guards and RTs.

I agree with the consensus regarding Easton. He's League Average, which is better than Remmers, Compton and Isidora. Need him back to battle for a Starting spot. He'd also be insurance against Elf not returning to full strength, provided that Easton himself comes back all the way healed.

Personally, I'd sign Roger Saffold away from the Rams and draft Dalton Risner or Greg Little to play RG for a year or two and then kick out and take over RT once O'Neill replaces Reiff. 

Rick won't pursue Saffold because he's already 30 so a stealthier move might be the kid Glowinski in Indy. His surprising level of play has helped Nelson and especially Smith and he won't cost a lot.

As for Richardson, the consistency doesn't match the hype or the contract he's going to ask for and this Draft has more pass rushing 3Ts than normal.

It's entirely possible that Rick can replace Sheldon with a 1st Round pick and still land a starting O-Lineman in the 2nd. That's where both the Badger kids and the Bama OG with the horrendous last name are currently slated.

I'd also like to see a 4th used at OT/OG. Need someone to push Izzy to get better or get gone and in case Collins doesn't make it all the way back from injury.

As for the game itself, meh. This is simply not a good Green Bay team. Erin has looked off all season. Should have put them away earlier just like every other sub 500 team they've beaten.

The Defense looked good against the Saints but hasn't exactly been facing world beaters otherwise. I'll believe they are back when they perform against a winning team on the road. The good news is that they'll get two chances in a row to prove it.

Not sold on JDF yet. And has anyone noticed that Cousins is starting to bird dog Thielen and Diggs ala Keenum?

Always great to beat a rival but I need to see more before I buy back in.

and for the love of God, can we get somebody in there that can actually coach up the schemes and techniques?  I know we dont have the best talent across the front 5,  but they arent the worst either and at times the look like a college DL could take them apart on a regular basis.  Our OL woes IMO go beyond the assembled talent and point to other issues.

@"TBro" said: I think there will be a lot of cap casualties in the offseason. Sendejo and Griffen are two of the more likely to go along with Treadwell and possibly Rudy. Hopefully we would clear enough cap to sign both Barr and Richardson and use our draft picks to improve our offensive line. 

@"FSUVike" said: Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Is Harrison Smith actually our "hybrid LB/Safety"? He plays up on the line, he fills gaps, he blitzes...and covers. Maybe that's why we're seeing 3 safeties / "big corner" packages so much - because one of those 3 isn't playing traditional safety. I know that Zimmer wants another LB who can cover, anyway, but not sure it can be a high priority.

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

speaking of Whitworth... people are always hard on rick for not addressing the OL,  we need to remember that Minneapolis and the minnesota income tax are not as desirable of a landing place for many free agents and their wives/girlfriends....especially those that grew up in the south.  IIRC the Vike offered Whitworth more money to come to minny, but his wife wanted LA.  I think we were passed over by another coveted FA last year as well,  so Rick is targeting improvements,  they just dont always have Minny on their radars.

@"TBro" said: -Great to see Rudolph finally involved in the passing game last night. It replaced our ineffective running attack to keep the chains moving. We will need this production to continue if we want to get into the playoffs. 

-Running game still is broken, especially with Cook getting delayed handoffs from the shotgun and being hit in the backfield before he even gets to the line of scrimmage. Vikings rushed 29 times for 91 yards and a 3.1 ypc average. It would have been worse had it not been for Murray, Cousins, and Diggs' contributions. This was a depleted Packers' D Line and we still couldn't effectively move the ball on the ground. At least they did not completely abandon it this week and it set up the nice playaction roll out to Thielen for the Touchdown. 

-The OLine is beyond fixable. There are no schemes that can make up for the inept play and lack of talent we have. What was Remmers even thinking when he whiffed on his block and basically pushed the Packers lineman into Cousins for the sack? Hill filling in for both Reiff and O'Neill was nothing less than a missed blocking assignment and guaranteed QB pressure on every drop back, and Compton still has no business starting. We get zero push in the running game. If we can survive our upcoming road games and still make our way into the playoffs as a Wild Card, it won't end well with this line. 

-Flip was better this game on distribution across the playmakers, but we still have too many series with predictable and ineffective play calls. Cook does great things when he gets the ball in Space. We need to see a lot more of that than trying to force the ball into Treadwell. He just isn't very creative at this point in his tenure as the Vikings OC and that will become a bigger issue when we play better teams and skilled defensive coaches who have the personnel to take Diggs and Thielen out of the game plan. 

-Zimmer's D looked flat and disinterested in the first quarter but they did make some nice adjustments and held Rodgers in check for the rest of the game. He still frustrates the hell out of me with his emotional coaching decisions. Not taking the three points on a chip shot field goal after the fumbled punt was just stupid coaching. It would have given us a 13 point lead. He wasn't being aggressive because it was a calculated risk in that situation, he was mad at his kicker and threw him under the bus during his half time interview with Michelle Tafoya. Had they not deliberately let the clock run down after they crossed mid field, they would have had more time to run some additional plays to take a shot at the end zone and get a closer field goal attempt. Don't blame the kicker when your OLine jumps offsides and adds 5 more yards to a 51 yard field goal. You move the ball effectively in the two minute drill only to be satisfied with a field goal attempt. There was time to keep pushing it down the field and go for the throat. 

-Officiating was dreadful. The blatant holding on the Packers' OLine was some of the worst I've seen. 

-Overall a win we absolutely had to have to keep our playoff hopes alive with a tough remaining schedule. I still don't feel like this team has enough offensive firepower to match up well with the better teams in the league. These next two games will really show what this team is made of and if we can put them in the same conversation with the other NFC contenders. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

speaking of Whitworth... people are always hard on rick for not addressing the OL,  we need to remember that Minneapolis and the minnesota income tax are not as desirable of a landing place for many free agents and their wives/girlfriends....especially those that grew up in the south.  IIRC the Vike offered Whitworth more money to come to minny, but his wife wanted LA.  I think we were passed over by another coveted FA last year as well,  so Rick is targeting improvements,  they just dont always have Minny on their radars.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

speaking of Whitworth... people are always hard on rick for not addressing the OL,  we need to remember that Minneapolis and the minnesota income tax are not as desirable of a landing place for many free agents and their wives/girlfriends....especially those that grew up in the south.  IIRC the Vike offered Whitworth more money to come to minny, but his wife wanted LA.  I think we were passed over by another coveted FA last year as well,  so Rick is targeting improvements,  they just dont always have Minny on their radars.

I think the "tax factor" is probably one of the biggest myths is sports. Is it something to consider? Sure, but I think it's seldom a deciding factor. 

And the Whitworth scenario hardly argues for it since California's income tax rate is the highest in the country. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Wow, this thread has my head spinning.

Maroon, Zim needs to replace Barr with a Buchanon or Tevin Smith type hybrid LB/Safety that can cover RBs, TEs and occasionally Slot WRs. You can get that in the 2nd or 3rd Round.

Maybe. Either way it's too early for me to be saying who will or will not be available in what round. 

As far as Saffold goes, I'm all for it. He was my pick in the 2010 draft when we traded down and drafted Chris Cook. I still suspect we may have been targeting him when the Rams took him one pick ahead of us.  While it's true Spielman prefers the younger free agents, where we're at in our proverbial "window" has a lot to say about that. And Saffold, because of his age, won't draw the same money as a 26-year-old player of similar talent. It's worth mentioning the Rams have done very well in their signing of the ageless Andrew Whitworth. 

Speaking of left tackles, I know everyone thinks O'Neill will eventually move over, but I tend to think he stays on the right. 

speaking of Whitworth... people are always hard on rick for not addressing the OL,  we need to remember that Minneapolis and the minnesota income tax are not as desirable of a landing place for many free agents and their wives/girlfriends....especially those that grew up in the south.  IIRC the Vike offered Whitworth more money to come to minny, but his wife wanted LA.  I think we were passed over by another coveted FA last year as well,  so Rick is targeting improvements,  they just dont always have Minny on their radars.

I think the "tax factor" is probably one of the biggest myths is sports. Is it something to consider? Sure, but I think it's seldom a deciding factor. 

And the Whitworth scenario hardly argues for it since California's income tax rate is the highest in the country. 

@"TBro" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"TBro" said: -Zimmer's D looked flat and disinterested in the first quarter but they did make some nice adjustments and held Rodgers in check for the rest of the game. He still frustrates the hell out of me with his emotional coaching decisions. Not taking the three points on a chip shot field goal after the fumbled punt was just stupid coaching. It would have given us a 13 point lead. He wasn't being aggressive because it was a calculated risk in that situation, he was mad at his kicker and threw him under the bus during his half time interview with Michelle Tafoya. Had they not deliberately let the clock run down after they crossed mid field, they would have had more time to run some additional plays to take a shot at the end zone and get a closer field goal attempt. Don't blame the kicker when your OLine jumps offsides and adds 5 more yards to a 51 yard field goal. You move the ball effectively in the two minute drill only to be satisfied with a field goal attempt. There was time to keep pushing it down the field and go for the throat. 

You make some good points, but the bolded part I really disagree with...  if he was that pissed off at Bailey, why did he let him kick a 37 yd FG late in the 3rd quarter?  Doesn't add up...
It was a good call to go for it on 4th down at that point in the game.  It's actually better to be up 10 than 13 late in the game in that situation.  If the Packers needed 2 TDs to win instead of a TD and a FG to tie, they probably play that last series a little differently and go for it on 4th and 1.  Instead, they took the FG knowing they needed one and if they recovered the onside kick, a TD only ties the game instead of winning it.
Also, the clock management before half was executed perfectly.  We started that drive at our own 10 yard line with what...  2 and a half minutes to go?  At that point, you hope to get a first down to get out of the shadow of your own end zone and go from there...  maybe you get a big play and can drive for some points.  We did pick up a first and started to move the ball, but then a penalty made it 1st and 20...  we picked up 2 yards and 11 yards to make it 3rd and long with a little more than a minute to go...
I have no problem milking some clock.  If we get the 1st, we'd likely be near mid-field and still had around 30 seconds and a time out to work with to get into FG range.  There was little to no chance we were driving down and scoring a TD even if we hurried up.  If we ran up and didn't get the 1st, I'd hate to hand Aaron Rodgers the ball with a little over a minute to go...  you know he would have driven down for a FG there with a timeout in their back pocket.
This was actually one of Zimmer's better games in terms of clock management and in-game decision making IMO.

Playing scared because you are worried Rodgers might get the ball back is playing not to lose. Again, I recognize and understand your opinion and I may be in the minority on this, but Aaron Rodgers would not have played it that way, and neither would Brady, Brees, Goff, etc.