So....is the team missing Anthony Barr?

It is strange.

I notice Wilson running around a ton while watching. Not necessarily making plays but being in the right place at the right time. He isn't blowing doors down with his presence out there, but that game was probably the most fundamentally sound our defense has looked all season.

 Two games ago the answer was 'probably.' Yesterday it was 'not really.' - the X factor could have simply been the reemergence of our pass rush. We mansplained what the **** was up to their offensive lineman all game. A great pass rush will make everyone look better.

However, Barr generally is thought to be elite as a pass rushing disruptor. I think we all have visions of Barr running 4.4 through the A gap and causing chaos - we know he leaves something to be desired on run support (taking on and getting off blockers) and he's been lit up in pass coverage a few times this season. ... if we don't need him to get elite pressure on the QB than what is his real value to this defense?

Too soon for me to say for sure. Eventually Wilson and/or Gedeon will get exposed. Based on what I saw from Hunter yesterday (and year-to-date) I'd say they got the order of re-signings right.

Might be that Waynes is next in line over Barr for $$ here?

I think over the long-run we need Waynes and Hughes. Maybe that's not possible with the cap.

I'm on the fence regarding Barr.  I love his athleticism, but don't like how he seems to completely disappear for long stretches at a time.  And honestly, I don't think it was the worst thing in the world to have him sit out a couple of games this year.  What better way to really give the coaches and the GM a good look at how this defense would function without him?

Hard to argue he was missed.  What would you say?  "Yeah, if Barr was playing, we'd have 12 sacks".  B)

Both Wilson and Gedeon made impressive plays in pass protection, stuffing the run, and blitzes.  The next "men" up, filled in admirably. 

@"HappyViking" said: Hard to argue he was missed.  What would you say?  "Yeah, if Barr was playing, we'd have 12 sacks".  

I think we're a better team with him and I'm looking forward to getting him healthy for the stretch run. That said, I don't think he's worth what he'll likely command on the market. I think he's worth more to a 3-4 team and I'd be surprised if he stays. 

@"MaroonBells" said: I think we're a better team with him and I'm looking forward to getting him healthy for the stretch run. That said, I don't think he's worth what he'll likely command on the market. I think he's worth more to a 3-4 team and I'd be surprised if he stays. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: I think we're a better team with him and I'm looking forward to getting him healthy for the stretch run. That said, I don't think he's worth what he'll likely command on the market. I think he's worth more to a 3-4 team and I'd be surprised if he stays. 

IMO, this is the right assessment. Agreed. I know Z likes him, but he can't keep every toy on defense as he needs to upgrade that offensive line. 

right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   I dont really see how Barr is even in the discussion with the money we look to have available and the issues our OL has shown.  Maybe if they can draft the OL help and get Easton healthy and resigned on the cheap,  but that still leaves a need at RG and some  better depth across the board.

@"MaroonBells" said: I think we're a better team with him and I'm looking forward to getting him healthy for the stretch run. That said, I don't think he's worth what he'll likely command on the market. I think he's worth more to a 3-4 team and I'd be surprised if he stays. 

@"SFVikingFan" said: I'm on the fence regarding Barr.  I love his athleticism, but don't like how he seems to completely disappear for long stretches at a time.  And honestly, I don't think it was the worst thing in the world to have him sit out a couple of games this year.  What better way to really give the coaches and the GM a good look at how this defense would function without him?

Barr has been completely invisible in 2018 let's be honest.  

If it comes down to a choice, much rather re-sign Sheldon Richardson and let Barr walk for a high comp pick.

Did we miss Barr yesterday? No I guess not. But Barr is REALLY good.
We're all judging him based on his weeks 1-6 this season, which is fair because that's all we have to go by. But our ENTIRE defense has improved the past 2 games. I think it's reasonable to assume Barr would have improved too.
If he's healthy, I think he'll make a huge impact down the stretch for us.
I'm realistic about our need for OL in the offseason, but if it's possible, I'd love to see the Vikings retain Barr. He's a very good player for us.

I was thinking the same thing as the OP.  I have never been a huge Barr fan and really think he disappears more than not.  I hope they don't go crazy trying to re-sign him.  

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

Good analysis, though one thing you didn't mention about Griffen: his contract is structured so his Dead Cap drops to only $1.2M after this year. If the Vikings waive him before the 3rd day of the league year, we would regain over $10M of cap for 2019. Cut Griffen, Remmers, and Sendejo, and now they have $31M open, about $26M after rookies. That's decent enough to possibly get 2 of Barr, Richardson, or a premier offensive lineman.
Can we get by without Griffen? Do they look like a-holes if they waive a guy who just had serious life issues? Does team management care?

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

Good analysis, though one thing you didn't mention about Griffen: his contract is structured so his Dead Cap drops to only $1.2M after this year. If the Vikings waive him before the 3rd day of the league year, we would regain over $10M of cap for 2019. Cut Griffen, Remmers, and Sendejo, and now they have $31M open, about $26M after rookies. That's decent enough to possibly get 2 of Barr, Richardson, or a premier offensive lineman.
Can we get by without Griffen? Do they look like a-holes if they waive a guy who just had serious life issues? Does team management care?

Why cut Griff?  He's way more valuable and better than Barr.  It's not even close.

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

Good analysis, though one thing you didn't mention about Griffen: his contract is structured so his Dead Cap drops to only $1.2M after this year. If the Vikings waive him before the 3rd day of the league year, we would regain over $10M of cap for 2019. Cut Griffen, Remmers, and Sendejo, and now they have $31M open, about $26M after rookies. That's decent enough to possibly get 2 of Barr, Richardson, or a premier offensive lineman.
Can we get by without Griffen? Do they look like a-holes if they waive a guy who just had serious life issues? Does team management care?

Why cut Griff?  He's way more valuable and better than Barr.  It's not even close.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

Good analysis, though one thing you didn't mention about Griffen: his contract is structured so his Dead Cap drops to only $1.2M after this year. If the Vikings waive him before the 3rd day of the league year, we would regain over $10M of cap for 2019. Cut Griffen, Remmers, and Sendejo, and now they have $31M open, about $26M after rookies. That's decent enough to possibly get 2 of Barr, Richardson, or a premier offensive lineman.
Can we get by without Griffen? Do they look like a-holes if they waive a guy who just had serious life issues? Does team management care?

Why cut Griff?  He's way more valuable and better than Barr.  It's not even close.

Fair point - but I asked for 2 reasons:
1. Jimmy listed Griffen in his cap analysis.
2. I saw his guaranteed money (dead cap) suddenly drops precipitously after this year. Sometimes that tells how long a team REALLY plans to keep paying someone within an apparently-long contract. Team has played without him most of this season to date, Weatherly has shown some promise...would you put it past Spielman to value cap space more than Griffen??

And FWIW I'm in the camp that thinks they will let Barr leave, so the real question could be 31-yo Griffen vs. 28-yo Richardson.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: right now we are projected to have about 11 million in cap space for next year... the rookies will likely take about what.... 5 million or so of that?   that really doesnt leave much with these guys all to become free agents.   cutting Remmers and Dejo would get us about 10million between the 2,  Waynes is set to make about 9 million on his 5th year tender,  but I dont see that number coming down if they try and extend him.   Everson is set to make about 12 million,  maybe he would redo his deal for less but I kind of doubt it since he has so many years left on that deal and hasnt really gotten to his big number years yet.   

Good analysis, though one thing you didn't mention about Griffen: his contract is structured so his Dead Cap drops to only $1.2M after this year. If the Vikings waive him before the 3rd day of the league year, we would regain over $10M of cap for 2019. Cut Griffen, Remmers, and Sendejo, and now they have $31M open, about $26M after rookies. That's decent enough to possibly get 2 of Barr, Richardson, or a premier offensive lineman.
Can we get by without Griffen? Do they look like a-holes if they waive a guy who just had serious life issues? Does team management care?

Why cut Griff?  He's way more valuable and better than Barr.  It's not even close.

Fair point - but I asked for 2 reasons:
1. Jimmy listed Griffen in his cap analysis.
2. I saw his guaranteed money (dead cap) suddenly drops precipitously after this year. Sometimes that tells how long a team REALLY plans to keep paying someone within an apparently-long contract. Team has played without him most of this season to date, Weatherly has shown some promise...would you put it past Spielman to value cap space more than Griffen??

And FWIW I'm in the camp that thinks they will let Barr leave, so the real question could be 31-yo Griffen vs. 28-yo Richardson.