ESPN: Overreaction or not? Week 6 style

 I'm not sure he is actually outplaying Diggs. He is having an historic start to the season, but if the top cb's were shadowing AT and Diggs was being targeted as much as Thielen.....?

  Can't underestimate the value of having them both.

Fans and media are too attached to their bold statements. Like I always say about almost every player...is he the best player at his position in the NFL? Maybe. He might very well be "right now." But was he that 4 weeks ago? What about 4 weeks from now? What about next year? What about all those potentially great receivers whose stats suffer due to poor QB play? What about his own teammate who tends to draw the defense's best cornerback? There's a lot of context to consider.  

And before anyone thinks I'm slamming Mr. Thielen, I'm not. I'm super jacked that we have two of the best receivers in the NFL, and a QB who can consistently find the open one. I don't feel a need to declare one better than the other. 

Who would I take in a vacuum? I'm starting a new team and I can take one receiver from the Vikings, each costing me the same amount, who do I take? Now that's a tough call. I suspect the answer to that question would change on a weekly basis. 

People underestimate Thielen and his athleticism, including commentators, analysts and even Vikings fans.  For instance, early in the game yesterday one of the commentators said something like, "Thielen won't 'wow' you with his athleticism like someone such as Diggs..."  Of course that was prior to a couple of the wow catches Thielen made.  So, where is the actual proof that Diggs is far more athletic?  People will say that regional combine performances aren't as official, but even prior to NFL conditioning Thielen ran in a 4.45 40 and a 6.77 three cone drill at his.  Diggs' combine was a 4.46 and a 7.03 for the same drills.  They're both several years now from that but watching them both run around the field I certainly wouldn't say there's a discernible difference between their speed and quickness - and it's difficult to say anyone has better hands than Thielen. 

Similar in fashion to MB, I'm not slamming Mr. Diggs, but I think there is A reason Thielen's performance may not be as "approved" as others from some people... 

@"CLOBIMON" said: People underestimate Thielen and his athleticism, including commentators, analysts and even Vikings fans.  For instance, early in the game yesterday one of the commentators said something like, "Thielen won't 'wow' you with his athleticism like someone such as Diggs..."  Of course that was prior to a couple of the wow catches Thielen made.  So, where is the actual proof that Diggs is far more athletic?  People will say that regional combine performances aren't as official, but even prior to NFL conditioning Thielen ran in a 4.45 40 and a 6.77 three cone drill at his.  Diggs' combine was a 4.46 and a 7.03 for the same drills.  They're both several years now from that but watching them both run around the field I certainly wouldn't say there's a discernible difference between their speed and quickness - and it's difficult to say anyone has better hands than Thielen. 

Similar in fashion to MB, I'm not slamming Mr. Diggs, but I think there is A reason Thielen's performance may not be as "approved" as others from some people... 

But you're right in that Thielen seems to suffer from what some might call a "color bias" in that you don't expect a guy that white and that big to run that fast and be that precise in his routes and, oh by the way, he also catches everything. 

We did a comparison this summer about who Thielen's comp was. And it was damn difficult. I think mine was maybe Isaac Bruce? It's very rare for a receiver to do so many things as well as Thielen does. 

Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

@"KingBash" said: Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

Are the Avengers the same with just Thor or just the Hulk?

Is a PB&J sammich the same with only one ingredient?

Neither would be as good without the other.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"KingBash" said: Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

Yes. Is Crockett really the same without Tubbs?

Are the Avengers the same with just Thor or just the Hulk?

Is a PB&J sammich the same with only one ingredient?

Neither would be as good without the other.

I can’t tell a difference between Thielen and Diggs in terms
of athleticism.  I think they’re
equivalent players for all real purposes. 
I imagine if you had them switch Jerseys and skin color, most people
wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in how their physical attributes
translate to the field.

I do think that Thielen probably gets an easier matchup on
average because he spends more time in the slot, but I don’t think that diminishes
his accomplishments in any way, because both he and Diggs can get open
regardless of where they line up or who they line up against, and Thielen is
putting highlight worthy plays on tape every week.  Is there any receiver in the league that has
more spectacular catches than Thielen right now?  More diving catches.  More toe taps.  More catches at the edge of his catch radius.

No doubt that opposing teams aren't treating Thielen like the #1 WR, they are on Diggs. That might change. 

@"StickyBun" said: No doubt that opposing teams aren't treating Thielen like the #1 WR, they are on Diggs. That might change. 

It might actually be better for defenses to put their top corner on Thielen. I'm not sure we can protect Cousins on the 5 and 7 step drops, the sort of stuff that tends to go more to Diggs. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"KingBash" said: Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

Yes. Is Crockett really the same without Tubbs?

Are the Avengers the same with just Thor or just the Hulk?

Is a PB&J sammich the same with only one ingredient?

Neither would be as good without the other.

The Hulk doesn't need Thor. Hulk smash. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"CLOBIMON" said: People underestimate Thielen and his athleticism, including commentators, analysts and even Vikings fans.  For instance, early in the game yesterday one of the commentators said something like, "Thielen won't 'wow' you with his athleticism like someone such as Diggs..."  Of course that was prior to a couple of the wow catches Thielen made.  So, where is the actual proof that Diggs is far more athletic?  People will say that regional combine performances aren't as official, but even prior to NFL conditioning Thielen ran in a 4.45 40 and a 6.77 three cone drill at his.  Diggs' combine was a 4.46 and a 7.03 for the same drills.  They're both several years now from that but watching them both run around the field I certainly wouldn't say there's a discernible difference between their speed and quickness - and it's difficult to say anyone has better hands than Thielen. 

Similar in fashion to MB, I'm not slamming Mr. Diggs, but I think there is A reason Thielen's performance may not be as "approved" as others from some people... 

Agree and disagree. Don't mistake athletic measurables for athleticism. I don't care what his combine numbers were, Diggs has the best feet I've ever seen.

But you're right in that Thielen seems to suffer from what some might call a "color bias" in that you don't expect a guy that white and that big to run that fast and be that precise in his routes and, oh by the way, he also catches everything. 

We did a comparison this summer about who Thielen's comp was. And it was damn difficult. I think mine was maybe Isaac Bruce? It's very rare for a receiver to do so many things as well as Thielen does. 

@"FSUVike" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"KingBash" said: Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

Yes. Is Crockett really the same without Tubbs?

Are the Avengers the same with just Thor or just the Hulk?

Is a PB&J sammich the same with only one ingredient?

Neither would be as good without the other.

The Hulk doesn't need Thor. Hulk smash. 

Thanos would beg to differ.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: No doubt that opposing teams aren't treating Thielen like the #1 WR, they are on Diggs. That might change. 

I don't know if this is true, but the announcers said that Patrick Peterson had switched to Thielen at one point on Sunday. But it sounded like it was only for a couple of plays. It would be very interesting to see what happens if Thielen starts drawing the top corners. Guys, that's the beauty in this. It's so stupid to argue about who's better. If a team tries to take away one, the other will explode, no matter which is which. 

It might actually be better for defenses to put their top corner on Thielen. I'm not sure we can protect Cousins on the 5 and 7 step drops, the sort of stuff that tends to go more to Diggs. 

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: No doubt that opposing teams aren't treating Thielen like the #1 WR, they are on Diggs. That might change. 

I don't know if this is true, but the announcers said that Patrick Peterson had switched to Thielen at one point on Sunday. But it sounded like it was only for a couple of plays. It would be very interesting to see what happens if Thielen starts drawing the top corners. Guys, that's the beauty in this. It's so stupid to argue about who's better. If a team tries to take away one, the other will explode, no matter which is which. 

It might actually be better for defenses to put their top corner on Thielen. I'm not sure we can protect Cousins on the 5 and 7 step drops, the sort of stuff that tends to go more to Diggs. 

I think one of the big challenges for defenses is that both
Thielen and Diggs are effective out of the slot and I think even when a CB
follows a WR around, a lot of the times that doesn’t include into the slot, because
maybe the coverage dictates that a Safety or even a LB is supposed to be
covering the slot guy depending on what personnel group is on the field, and
you don’t want to completely rewrite the play to ensure a guy is following
their best guy or now your nickle CB has to play the boundary CB position against Diggs when he's used to playing in the slot.  That's a lot to ask.  It might be less risky just to leave him in the slot and try to give him some help.

Interesting from PFF's Jeff Ratcliffe. Week 6 against the Vikings was the first time this season the Cardinals used Patrick Peterson in "shadow" coverage. Peterson shadowed Diggs on 59% of his routes, with Diggs getting two targets, catching both for 26 yards. So while we may think Thielen is the better receiver, defenses don't play us that way. YET. It'll be interesting to see if that changes. It may not considering, as Medaille points out, do you want to put your best corner over the slot, leaving the outside undermanned?  

From the Rodney Dangerfield files:  Listening to Jim Miller on NFL radio.  He was asked do you think Diggs and Thielen are the best receiving duo in the NFL right now.  He said, well..... I think they would be in the conversation.”  In the CONVERSATION? They ARE the conversation!  a little Chicago Bears bias showing? Pissed me off.  Didn’t even say “a case could be made” etc.

@"Caactorvike" said: From the Rodney Dangerfield files:  Listening to Jim Miller on NFL radio.  He was asked do you think Diggs and Thielen are the best receiving duo in the NFL right now.  He said, well..... I think they would be in the conversation.”  In the CONVERSATION? They ARE the conversation!  a little Chicago Bears bias showing? Pissed me off.  Didn’t even say “a case could be made” etc.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"KingBash" said: Is there really a debate over which one of our wide receivers are better? A debate that we participate in and get heated about?

Yes. Is Crockett really the same without Tubbs?

Are the Avengers the same with just Thor or just the Hulk?

Is a PB&J sammich the same with only one ingredient?
Yeah but the real question is are you using white bread or wheat

@"MaroonBells" said: Fans and media are too attached to their bold statements. Like I always say about almost every player...is he the best player at his position in the NFL? Maybe. He might very well be "right now." But was he that 4 weeks ago? What about 4 weeks from now? What about next year? What about all those potentially great receivers whose stats suffer due to poor QB play? What about his own teammate who tends to draw the defense's best cornerback? There's a lot of context to consider.  

And before anyone thinks I'm slamming Mr. Thielen, I'm not. I'm super jacked that we have two of the best receivers in the NFL, and a QB who can consistently find the open one. I don't feel a need to declare one better than the other. 

Who would I take in a vacuum? I'm starting a new team and I can take one receiver from the Vikings, each costing me the same amount, who do I take? Now that's a tough call. I suspect the answer to that question would change on a weekly basis.