Xavier Rhodes

 Dirty Harry had a few blitzes today, but overall doesn't appear to be his old self either...

Age? These position-guys are at their peak in their mid/late twenties. They rely on athleticism. They're both getting up there. The T. Newmans and Woodsons are rare.

They've been almost super human since drafted... maybe we're seeing a natural decline. 

I'm not sure what's going on with Rhodes this year. Teams are doing a good job of completing passes in front of him and he's not really breaking up passes right now.

With Smith, it seemed like the Saints and Eagles demonstrated how to attack him in the playoffs and he hasn't been the same player since. He still makes some splash plays, like the sack today, but in coverage he tends to always be a step behind and not closing in hard like we're used to seeing.

I have two other thoughts that I'm not sure about. We seem to be running different coverages this year and it seems like more than I'm used to seeing, but maybe I'm wrong on that. I'm also curious if the amount of misdirection we're seeing is forcing the secondary to be less aggressive/more disciplined? Maybe they are OK with Rhodes allowing more completions in front of him if it reduces the number of big plays they are giving up?

Before the drive where Arizona scored to make it 27-17 toward the end, Rosen had around 185 yards passing....so its not like the Viking's D stunk out loud in pass coverage. Rhodes just turned 28 years old in June, its not an age thing, lol. I do think that some parts of Zimmer's scheme have been game planned for when it comes to the LBs, but then how do you explain the excellent 3rd down defense? Its been extremely good. 

One game at a time, but they are now 3-2-1 and currently would be a 6th seed in the NFC playoffs. Right there for the NFCN crown. It doesn't matter now what's happened in the past, their destiny is firmly in their hands which is great. 0/10 on 3rd downs and 0/2 on 4th downs yesterday is what Arizona was. Can't complain too much.

I got berated for suggesting we trade XR and get some OL help for him and probably a high pick.  Realistically I think we could have gotten a starter on the OL and a second round pick for him.  Then keep Waynes and Hughes as your starters for next year.

Unless its a QB or LT or someone intimately special like Harrison Smith (I don't put XR in that category) you sell high and buy low. 

@"purplefaithful" said:  Dirty Harry had a few blitzes today, but overall doesn't appear to be his old self either...

@"AGRforever" said:

I got berated for suggesting we trade XR and get some OL help for him and probably a high pick.  Realistically I think we could have gotten a starter on the OL and a second round pick for him.  Then keep Waynes and Hughes as your starters for next year.

Unless its a QB or LT or someone intimately special like Harrison Smith (I don't put XR in that category) you sell high and buy low. 

And now Hughes is likely out for the season. In this era of Offense being given almost every advantage we need a bounty of decent DBs.

i dont think its necessarily a drop off by Rhodes or Smith,  its how the league is enforcing the illegal contact/holding on DBs this year.  Our guys used to get away with a little rub or grab here or there,  but the officials have been told to call all the contact after 5 yards so its a big adjustment, especially for a bigger back covering a smaller shiftier WR, they have to give them a bit more of a cushion now because they arent allowed to bump them off their routes.

@"JimmyinSD" said: i dont think its necessarily a drop off by Rhodes or Smith,  its how the league is enforcing the illegal contact/holding on DBs this year.  Our guys used to get away with a little rub or grab here or there,  but the officials have been told to call all the contact after 5 yards so its a big adjustment, especially for a bigger back covering a smaller shiftier WR, they have to give them a bit more of a cushion now because they arent allowed to bump them off their routes.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: i dont think its necessarily a drop off by Rhodes or Smith,  its how the league is enforcing the illegal contact/holding on DBs this year.  Our guys used to get away with a little rub or grab here or there,  but the officials have been told to call all the contact after 5 yards so its a big adjustment, especially for a bigger back covering a smaller shiftier WR, they have to give them a bit more of a cushion now because they arent allowed to bump them off their routes.

Now just imagine that Holton Hill was out there and got burned here and there when Waynes or Hughes wasn't available but Kirk didn't fumble 5x because he had 3+ seconds to pass.  Not to mention we would have a high pick as well.  If Zimmer is a DB whisperer then he needs to whisper to some of the new talent as well.  We shouldn't need perennial probowlers at CB for his defense to work. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: i dont think its necessarily a drop off by Rhodes or Smith,  its how the league is enforcing the illegal contact/holding on DBs this year.  Our guys used to get away with a little rub or grab here or there,  but the officials have been told to call all the contact after 5 yards so its a big adjustment, especially for a bigger back covering a smaller shiftier WR, they have to give them a bit more of a cushion now because they arent allowed to bump them off their routes.

Now just imagine that Holton Hill was out there and got burned here and there when Waynes or Hughes wasn't available but Kirk didn't fumble 5x because he had 3+ seconds to pass.  Not to mention we would have a high pick as well.  If Zimmer is a DB whisperer then he needs to whisper to some of the new talent as well.  We shouldn't need perennial probowlers at CB for his defense to work. 

Agreed, Jimmy. The real genius was getting first Cincinnati and then Minnesota to invest multiple 1st Round picks in CBs that had the right kind of measurables for him to develop.

Mike was ahead of his time in understanding how badly the NFL wanted a pass happy, high scoring product. 

No matter how great your pass rush is they aren't going to pressure the QB on every pass. Even historically great lines couldn't do that. And if you blitz a ton every single time it gets picked up you're risking giving up a chunk play.

But a good pass rush with sticky coverage on the back end can look great when the QB has to keep going through progressions to find someone who's open.

You're not going to find guys that have the right athletic profile and mental makeup to be a good CB in the later rounds of the Draft often enough to build a 4 Deep CB Corps, which you have to have in today's game.

@"FSUVike" said: Agreed, Jimmy. The real genius was getting first Cincinnati and then Minnesota to invest multiple 1st Round picks in CBs that had the right kind of measurables for him to develop.

Mike was ahead of his time in understanding how badly the NFL wanted a pass happy, high scoring product. 

No matter how great your pass rush is they aren't going to pressure the QB on every pass. Even historically great lines couldn't do that. And if you blitz a ton every single time it gets picked up you're risking giving up a chunk play.

But a good pass rush with sticky coverage on the back end can look great when the QB has to keep going through progressions to find someone who's open.

You're not going to find guys that have the right athletic profile and mental makeup to be a good CB in the later rounds of the Draft often enough to build a 4 Deep CB Corps, which you have to have in today's game.

After calling out the playing time Holton Hill had been getting I've noticed less and less of him. Not sure I noticed him on defense for a single snap Sunday.

Losing Hughes is a big loss.  Our secondary started out looking strong but getting thinner and thinner... I hope Hill can get some playing time in to get some experience.  Obviously the coaches see him every day though and know way more than us armchair QBs can.  I'm drawing a blank on #41 who got the INT, but I was surprised to see him playing so much before the INT happened. 

@"NorthwestNorseman" said: Losing Hughes is a big loss.  Our secondary started out looking strong but getting thinner and thinner... I hope Hill can get some playing time in to get some experience.  Obviously the coaches see him every day though and know way more than us armchair QBs can.  I'm drawing a blank on #41 who got the INT, but I was surprised to see him playing so much before the INT happened. 

As for the DB whisper comments, I do think there is some frustration that Zimmer/Spielman stockpile 1st and 2nd round picks on corners, while inadequately addressing other areas of the roster like OL:

Xavier Rhodes (1st round, Pre-Zimmer)
Trae Waynes (1st round)
Mackensie Alexander (2nd round)
Mike Hughes (1st round)

I think the thought is that since Zimmer is known for being a secondary guru that he should be able to develop mid to late round picks at corner, which we really haven't seen. Holton Hill may buck that trend, but even he is someone who was viewed as early round talent who fell out of the draft for other reasons. It seems like Zimmer's talent is more making the most out of highly talented corners rather than molding raw or less-skilled corners into top level players. Maybe that's a bit unfair, but there also hasn't exactly been spots for mid to undrafted guys to stick around, which is at least a nice change from the days of Frazier, where they were pretty much playing CBs off of the street.

He's done a better job of developing late round/undrafted talent at safety like Ant Harris and Jayron Kearse, though he was viewed by the media as high round talent. Even Sendejo who pre-dates Zimmer became a much better player under him.

@"JimmyinSD" said: i dont think its necessarily a drop off by Rhodes or Smith,  its how the league is enforcing the illegal contact/holding on DBs this year.  Our guys used to get away with a little rub or grab here or there,  but the officials have been told to call all the contact after 5 yards so its a big adjustment, especially for a bigger back covering a smaller shiftier WR, they have to give them a bit more of a cushion now because they arent allowed to bump them off their routes.

@"Tyr" said: As for the DB whisper comments, I do think there is some frustration that Zimmer/Spielman stockpile 1st and 2nd round picks on corners, while inadequately addressing other areas of the roster like OL:

Xavier Rhodes (1st round, Pre-Zimmer)
Trae Waynes (1st round)
Mackensie Alexander (2nd round)
Mike Hughes (1st round)

I think the thought is that since Zimmer is known for being a secondary guru that he should be able to develop mid to late round picks at corner, which we really haven't seen. Holton Hill may buck that trend, but even he is someone who was viewed as early round talent who fell out of the draft for other reasons. It seems like Zimmer's talent is more making the most out of highly talented corners rather than molding raw or less-skilled corners into top level players. Maybe that's a bit unfair, but there also hasn't exactly been spots for mid to undrafted guys to stick around, which is at least a nice change from the days of Frazier, where they were pretty much playing CBs off of the street.

He's done a better job of developing late round/undrafted talent at safety like Ant Harris and Jayron Kearse, though he was viewed by the media as high round talent. Even Sendejo who pre-dates Zimmer became a much better player under him.

@"BlackMagic7" said: After calling out the playing time Holton Hill had been getting I've noticed less and less of him. Not sure I noticed him on defense for a single snap Sunday.