Anyone just shake your head over Bailey's misses?

One thing that has puzzled me about Zimmer is his retention of several assistants from previous regimes here: George Stewart, Jeff Davidson, and Mike Priefer. A new coach brings new assistants unless he either truly believes current staff members are far better than the men who hired them (Brad Childress and Leslie Frazier), or if they coach part of the team the HC doesn't know or care about.

Two are now gone after proving they belonged with Childress and Frazier. How much longer for Priefer?

The laces should be removed from the ball to increase scoring in the NFL!  Everything should be done to help the kickers.

I think nerves from being on a new team and a little rust. Also the field wasn't very good there yesterday, saw a number of odd slips. Priefer wouldn't be the guy walking kickers through actual routine methinks but more schematic-related for coverages, lineups, etc. 

Probably time to admit something truly bizarre thats been happening around the League this year: there are more bona fide Franchise QBs than reliable Kickers.

I'm starting to wonder if Brady was the only one doctoring balls. He might have been the only QB doing it (speculation), but perhaps his actions accidentally shined a light on the situation and the real story was that nearly every kicker was messing with the game balls?

@"Max" said: I'm starting to wonder if Brady was the only one doctoring balls. He might have been the only QB doing it (speculation), but perhaps his actions accidentally shined a light on the situation and the real story was that nearly every kicker was messing with the game balls?

they used to do that,  they would do all sorts of shit to the balls they used to kick,  microwave was one of my favorites that I heard,  but about 10 years ago or so the league went to the special "K" balls and the kickers are not allowed to doctor those.   Its funny that the league took them away from the kickers but it took a scandal to take them out of the QBs kitchens.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Max" said: I'm starting to wonder if Brady was the only one doctoring balls. He might have been the only QB doing it (speculation), but perhaps his actions accidentally shined a light on the situation and the real story was that nearly every kicker was messing with the game balls?

they used to do that,  they would do all sorts of shit to the balls they used to kick,  microwave was one of my favorites that I heard,  but about 10 years ago or so the league went to the special "K" balls and the kickers are not allowed to doctor those.   Its funny that the league took them away from the kickers but it took a scandal to take them out of the QBs kitchens.

@"JimmyinSD" said: again I ask,  how is Preifer/Zim not getting called into question on these kicking woes?  its not just the place kickers,  our punters is a shankapotumus as well.

I've wanted Preifer gone for years. It seems like every season we have a loss that can be laid at the ST's feet.

Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense.   See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.

@"Akvike" said: Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense.   See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.

We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games.  We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games.  For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.

Them were humongous errors costing multiple losses in A SEASON---you quote a loss could be attributed to the special teams( not multiple head slappers that it took to roust those morphadites.)

@"Scoog" said:

@"Akvike" said: Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense.   See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.

We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games.  We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games.  For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.

@"Scoog" said:

@"Akvike" said: Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense.   See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.

We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games.  We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games.  For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.

From his Vikings.com bio

Priefer’s special teams units are known for creating big-play
opportunities. Since entering the NFL, Priefer has seen his units
account for 26 scores (12 KOR, 9 PR, 3 blocked punts, 1 botched fake FG
and 1 safety). He has also seen his squads block 23 kicks (9 punts, 9
FGs, 5 PATs) since 2002. Since Priefer joined the Vikings in 2011,
Minnesota leads the NFL for the most special teams TDs with 14 (7 KOR, 5
PR and 2 blocked punts) over that 7-year span.

Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.

2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.

And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.

@"Scoog" said:

Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.

2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.

And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.

You understand that no unit of the team is more influenced by the salary cap than special teams? Spielman has to make tough decisions, one of those was rolling the dice on Daniel Carlson. Pfeifer wasn't pounding the desk for the guy, I'm sure he would have loved to keep Forbath. Same thing but even more so with punters: Spielman thought he saw value and went there, Pfeifer wasn't advocating for taking Locke, I guarantee you. Was he asked what he thought about him? Of course. But pulling the trigger on kickers and punters is Spielman and working the cap. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Scoog" said:

Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.

2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.

And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.

You understand that no unit of the team is more influenced by the salary cap than special teams? Spielman has to make tough decisions, one of those was rolling the dice on Daniel Carlson. Pfeifer wasn't pounding the desk for the guy, I'm sure he would have loved to keep Forbath. Same thing but even more so with punters: Spielman thought he saw value and went there, Pfeifer wasn't advocating for taking Locke, I guarantee you. Was he asked what he thought about him? Of course. But pulling the trigger on kickers and punters is Spielman and working the cap. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: again I ask,  how is Preifer/Zim not getting called into question on these kicking woes?  its not just the place kickers,  our punters is a shankapotumus as well.

Neither Zim or Preifer have had enough time to screw up a veteran kicker. Since Zim doesnt think kickers are football players Id say he probably doesnt say much one way or another. 

without knowing what he is trying to teach these guys I dont believe anything is out of the question in regards to what he might be doing to even a seasoned vet.  Bailey can rest comfortably with the job though... we dont have enough money left to order a pizza let alone try and sign another kicker.

@"FSUVike" said: Probably time to admit something truly bizarre thats been happening around the League this year: there are more bona fide Franchise QBs than reliable Kickers.

Now this is funny stuff...

There was a time Priefer's name was being bandied about as HC material...The bloom is off the rose, not sure it's all his fault with the roster decisions the last few years.

The front office has had to retain some big talent - and ST's has suffered imo because of it.