Case Keenum is who Zimmer and Vikes's brass thought he was....
No starting QB has a worse passer rating throwing from in the pocket that Keenum. Great guy, good leader, can move around but ultimately is limited. His QB rating of 72.1 is worst among starters other than Josh Allen of the Bills and its really not close. Only 3 TDs thrown and 6 INTs. Completion % is brutal.
I'm glad the guy got paid this year, I really am because he's such a good dude. But Minnesota was 100% correct in letting him go. Same with Bradford. The Vikings have issues, but it sure isn't at the QB spot for once.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/10/2/17927820/denver-broncos-case-keenum-struggling-contract-welp
@"Vikergirl" said:@"suncoastvike" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"suncoastvike" said: I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to. Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Why did you only quote part of me? I did say I'm happy with the Kirk decision. I was only pointing out there's no magic this year. Case for all his flaws was a big part of that magic. I know it was not going to work long term. Nothing is working this year but Kirk. It's not fun. I'm just thinking of happier days not so long ago.
You bring up a good point about magic. Last year was on another level. And of course the end outcome sucked. But it was exciting. It certainly was electric to see in person.This year has some excitement on offense but the defense is putrid. They are going through growing pains. I don't care what anyone says losing BRob and Everson is huge. And especially since there is a great deal of uncertainty about Everson. But they are trying to find their identity and cohesiveness as a unit. So that counteracts the excitement on offense. I really hope they can come together and work through the roller coaster ride.
Maybe a matter of semantics, but this defense is not going through growing pains. This defense should be in the middle of their prime, and has simply not performed, and or the scheme has been figured out to the extent where they need to start looking at some personnel, coaching, or schematic changes.DB's have been playing like they're disinterested. We seem to be playing with 1 LBer, and half a defensive line most of the game. Not sure what's going on, but it's not inexperience or lack of familiarity. My fear is that a few of the "stars" on this defense are mentally and or physically taking a year or more off.
@"mgobluevikes" said:@"Vikergirl" said:@"suncoastvike" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"suncoastvike" said: I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to. Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Why did you only quote part of me? I did say I'm happy with the Kirk decision. I was only pointing out there's no magic this year. Case for all his flaws was a big part of that magic. I know it was not going to work long term. Nothing is working this year but Kirk. It's not fun. I'm just thinking of happier days not so long ago.
You bring up a good point about magic. Last year was on another level. And of course the end outcome sucked. But it was exciting. It certainly was electric to see in person.This year has some excitement on offense but the defense is putrid. They are going through growing pains. I don't care what anyone says losing BRob and Everson is huge. And especially since there is a great deal of uncertainty about Everson. But they are trying to find their identity and cohesiveness as a unit. So that counteracts the excitement on offense. I really hope they can come together and work through the roller coaster ride.
Maybe a matter of semantics, but this defense is not going through growing pains. This defense should be in the middle of their prime, and has simply not performed, and or the scheme has been figured out to the extent where they need to start looking at some personnel, coaching, or schematic changes.DB's have been playing like they're disinterested. We seem to be playing with 1 LBer, and half a defensive line most of the game. Not sure what's going on, but it's not inexperience or lack of familiarity. My fear is that a few of the "stars" on this defense are mentally and or physically taking a year or more off.
Those issues are definitely at play. But growing pains are as well. And when I am talking about growing pains there is some youth but there are leadership issues as well as a need to adjust to changes. Especially in regard to Everson, that's a big unknown. Also there is a lack of unity in regard to the team defense. That is impacting performance. It's not just the young that go through growing pains. There are a whole lot of issues going on right now with the defense. It's everywhere. Players, coaches, schemes, youth, veterans. Take your pick. I would also add that this defense has a lack of identity. Their purpose is still evolving and they need to adapt to the rule changes.
So.... 13-2-1 here we come?
Some how a huge upgrade at QB only gets us 4 more points so far this season than last season. And one less Win. Kirk is still settling into his role here and I'm not sure what we got. A Stat machine like Stafford? The lions are always in the top 5 or 10 for passing in the NFL. But yet seldom in the playoffs... Awesome for you fantasy types. Or do we have a QB that will lead this team into to playoffs and beyond. Remains to be seen.
All off season and preseason I heard that Kirk's never had a D like ours... well 4 games into the season, I think you can safely say that yes he has... unfortunately, yes he has. Now still a lot of football left to be played in this season and maybe our D will return to it's last season form. And the only gripe that I have about Cousins is his propensity to fumble and some of his passes put his receivers in harms way... But I think that second one will work itself out as he gets more time with these guys.
13-2-1 or bust... Right? =)
@"StickyBun" said:@"suncoastvike" said: I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to. Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Lets look at it another way.Last years D under Zimm was not sustainable.
The Vikings brass knew it during the playoffs.Since 2nd half of Saints game Zim has been out coached badly.
The D had a horse shoe up it's ass during the regular season.The prudent move should have been to wish Zim well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what should have happened. Shame on the Vikings for not doing so.
@"SFVikeFan" said: Love 2017 Case, but he truly caught lightning in a bottle, played with the #1 defense. Never had to really go to to toe in any shootouts and put up big points. Nice guy, but Cousins is a clear upgrade.It's only 4 games into the season. Last year at this point MN scored 19.75 points per game. This year 22.5 points per game.
That extra field goal per game is not that clear yet.
At the very least I am excited going forward to see what Kirk will do when he has an actual NFL line in front of him and the ability to play action. A heavy draft on offense as well (2019)
@"silverjoel" said:@"StickyBun" said:Denver's offense has scored more points. How is that an agenda? It's a team game, isn't that what's always said if someone wants to discredit a particular player? Now you get your QB stats, so let's discredit the team.@"silverjoel" said:@"StickyBun" said:I forgot that passing TDs are worth more than rushing TDs. Somehow, an 80 yard drive with 40 yards passing and 40 yards rushing is only good if it ends in a passing TD.@"silverjoel" said: The Broncos offense has more points scored (84 against teams with a combined 10-6 record) than the Vikings offense (83 against teams with a combined 8-7-1 record).The 2017 Vikings offense scored 79 through the first 4 games.
Cousins has 10 TD passes. Keenum has 3....and hasn't thrown a TD in his last 3 games.
Cousins has a QB rating of 103.6, Keenum's is 72.1.To anyone not pushing some kind of agenda, its painfully obvious who is playing better thus far. Only on a message board is this not abundantly clear. Not even sure how this can be a debate.
Yeah, I get it. This Vikings team is letting
BradfordCousins down. What more isBradfordCousins supposed to do? I already had this conversation with you two years ago.. Best Vikings QB since Favre. You wanted QB stats, you got them. You never looked at what throwing 50 times a game did to the rest of the team and the affect it had on actually winning games.
Unfortunately the Vikings have needed to throw the ball 50 times a game. It’s not like it’s Cousins idea or something but the defense is a sieve and the running game is non-existent. Keenum did pretty well last year all things considered, but he would be struggling massively with this Vikings team this season.
@"holmanjp" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"suncoastvike" said: I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to. Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Lets look at it another way.Last years D under Zimm was not sustainable.
The Vikings brass knew it during the playoffs.Since 2nd half of Saints game Zim has been out coached badly.
The D had a horse shoe up it's ass during the regular season.The prudent move should have been to wish Zim well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what should have happened. Shame on the Vikings for not doing so.
Oh boy. (eye roll).
I live with a hardcore 'skins fan... I've thus surreptitiously watched Cousins for years. Last year sure, we turned chicken sh*t into chicken salad but that was a one-off and guaranteed a solid dude like Case got a payday to carry him into retirement. Cousins has overproduced behind an abysmal situation for 3+ years now as a starter. He's made throws I haven't seen since the Warren Moon days on this team. (Not dissing Daunte but he was not a finesse QB... launch it for Moss was his MO).
If, and it's a big iiiiiiiiiiiffffffffff.... the O-Line gels and the Defense finds an identity you're gonna see epic levels of awesome. I have faith it will come together. We may not be first seed, but the defense will find their core. The O-line will come together. (if God smiles on us, we'll bring back BRob as a team leader on D)
It will eventually click... the pieces are there... patience my friends :)
Wow, one 3 bright spots on the team is qb...
Looks to me like we have the best QB here since Favre, right where my expectations were...Room for improvement? Sure, always will be and he'll be his own harshest critic.
Too bad the rest of the team (sans Diggs and Thielen) has gone to s hit...
@"Al (The Lochstar) Heurung" said: I live with a hardcore 'skins fan... I've thus surreptitiously watched Cousins for years. Last year sure, we turned chicken sh*t into chicken salad but that was a one-off and guaranteed a solid dude like Case got a payday to carry him into retirement. Cousins has overproduced behind an abysmal situation for 3+ years now as a starter. He's made throws I haven't seen since the Warren Moon days on this team. (Not dissing Daunte but he was not a finesse QB... launch it for Moss was his MO).If, and it's a big iiiiiiiiiiiffffffffff.... the O-Line gels and the Defense finds an identity you're gonna see epic levels of awesome. I have faith it will come together. We may not be first seed, but the defense will find their core. The O-line will come together. (if God smiles on us, we'll bring back BRob as a team leader on D)
It will eventually click... the pieces are there... patience my friends :)
What's your 'Skins fan roomie say about Cousins, is he missed? I work with a 'Skins fan, and he's always telling me he's glad he's gone. I can't tell if he means it or it's just sour grapes. He wasted no time texting me a "I told you so" message immediately after the Cousins fumble last game.
@"HappyViking" said:@"Al (The Lochstar) Heurung" said: I live with a hardcore 'skins fan... I've thus surreptitiously watched Cousins for years. Last year sure, we turned chicken sh*t into chicken salad but that was a one-off and guaranteed a solid dude like Case got a payday to carry him into retirement. Cousins has overproduced behind an abysmal situation for 3+ years now as a starter. He's made throws I haven't seen since the Warren Moon days on this team. (Not dissing Daunte but he was not a finesse QB... launch it for Moss was his MO).If, and it's a big iiiiiiiiiiiffffffffff.... the O-Line gels and the Defense finds an identity you're gonna see epic levels of awesome. I have faith it will come together. We may not be first seed, but the defense will find their core. The O-line will come together. (if God smiles on us, we'll bring back BRob as a team leader on D)
It will eventually click... the pieces are there... patience my friends :)
What's your 'Skins fan roomie say about Cousins, is he missed? I work with a 'Skins fan, and he's always telling me he's glad he's gone. I can't tell if he means it or it's just sour grapes. He wasted no time texting me a "I told you so" message immediately after the Cousins fumble last game.
I got similar message when Favre threw across the body against the Saints in the CG...Then they enshrined him as Packer great for life 24 mos later.I'm glad Case got the big pay-day...But now with clarity, I can see how exposed he was against the Saints and Eagles.
My hope is similar to Al's - the rest of the surround for Cousins starts to come-around in a hurry. This is a season on the brink only a 1/4 into it.
Kirk is the best QB the Vikings have had since ‘09.
Case is a great guy, I like him, I hope he does well, but he isn’t as good as Cousins.
i bet Broncoa fans woukd give Case back......we made a huge upgrade at QB....its not rocket science.
Grumblings from Denver...
” Whether it’s errant passes to nobody, holding on to the ball too long or making questionable reads, Keenum is clearly off and not the quarterback we were all hoping for. “
&
@"Maple Surple" said: Grumblings from Denver...” Whether it’s errant passes to nobody, holding on to the ball too long or making questionable reads, Keenum is clearly off and not the quarterback we were all hoping for. “
&
That sounds familiar. Keenum put together an amazing season for us last year, but I agreed with Zimmer that he was playing with a horseshoe up his ass. He did a great job of evading pressure and keeping plays alive, but then he'd throw completely inadvisable passes. Some of it was lucky bounces and some of it was that Diggs and Thielen were good enough to bail out those plays. He did have times where he made up his mind presnap and it often felt like he never got past his first two reads. He still proved that he was better than any of us thought he was, but there was a reason why the Vikings were so hesitant to re-sign him.
The Denver radio spent several days last summer talking about Keenum's exceptional contested catch conversion percentage last season. No joke.
@"MaroonBells" said: The Denver radio spent several days last summer talking about Keenum's exceptional contested catch conversion percentage last season. No joke.So many pundits were saying Denver got a steal in Keenum, etc. blah blah. He is what he is and its why Minnesota let him go and got a nice upgrade in Cousins. Nothing against Case, he's a great guy and I'm glad he got paid. He'll make a great band-aid until they draft another QB in round 1.
@"holmanjp" said:@"SFVikeFan" said: Love 2017 Case, but he truly caught lightning in a bottle, played with the #1 defense. Never had to really go to to toe in any shootouts and put up big points. Nice guy, but Cousins is a clear upgrade. It's only 4 games into the season. Last year at this point MN scored 19.75 points per game. This year 22.5 points per game.That extra field goal per game is not that clear yet.
I don't care about what your stats say. Cousins is making some throws that case cant or wont, he is scoring TDs in the redzone. Cousins is balling at a Top 5 level, Case is not.
Again this week the Denver defense gives up big points and huge yards. 324 rushing alone. Case has to throw 51 times for 377 yards and 2 tds. Yeah he's the problem with the Bronco's this week. I think we made the right choice. Hell Kirk was Denver's 1st choice as well. Is it fair if Kirk throws 370 yards and the Vikings lose to say he's the problem to then? Because to me that's already happened as well. Case seems to not be the whole reason for them being 2-3 any more the Kirk is for us being 2-2-1. Case is not Kirk we all know that. They need to give him help. That's the difference between paying $18 and $30 million.
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