Not sure what more Kirk Cousins is supposed to do....

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Bezerker88" said: Perhaps hold onto the ball instead of putting it on the ground?  Perhaps move around in the pocket?  

I know you guys are thrilled to have a QB that produces stats...  I like Ws more than numbers. Cousins has put the ball on the turf and cost us more games than he’s won for us in this young season.  He has to make better ball control choices to avoid critical turnovers.  Only two INTs but add three lost fumbles(two inside our 25 last game) and that’s 5 turnovers in 4 games.

Sure our D is sucking too... but the D wasn’t mentioned in the title of the thread.  

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL
REALLY????  You watched last nights game and came away with Cousins isn't doing enough?  Did you see the passes?  How about the swiss cheese line?   Donald got through so early he literally threw Cousins to the ground.  On a different play he got nearly sacked on a hand off.  Maybe the lack of running game?
The only reason this wasn't a blowout of epic proportions ala the NFCCG was because of Cousins.  He is certainly our best player on O and maybe even better then Harry for best on the team right now. 

Honestly you need to place some of the blame on Cousins.  Turnovers are the most important stat in football, and his turnovers put us in a hole a Buffalo we could not recover from, and ended our chances at winning last night.  That's not to say he isn't playing some great ball, but there is sure room for improvement.  It's like Peterson with his fumbling woes -- great player, often put the team on his back; too often put the ball on the ground to kill us.  Just as it takes something away from the 60 yard run down to the 10 yard line when you cough up the ball on the next carry, it takes away from some of Kirk's brilliance in bringing the team down the field when he fumbles our last chance to tie or win the game away with poor pocket presence.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Bezerker88" said: Perhaps hold onto the ball instead of putting it on the ground?  Perhaps move around in the pocket?  

I know you guys are thrilled to have a QB that produces stats...  I like Ws more than numbers. Cousins has put the ball on the turf and cost us more games than he’s won for us in this young season.  He has to make better ball control choices to avoid critical turnovers.  Only two INTs but add three lost fumbles(two inside our 25 last game) and that’s 5 turnovers in 4 games.

Sure our D is sucking too... but the D wasn’t mentioned in the title of the thread.  

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL
REALLY????  You watched last nights game and came away with Cousins isn't doing enough?  Did you see the passes?  How about the swiss cheese line?   Donald got through so early he literally threw Cousins to the ground.  On a different play he got nearly sacked on a hand off.  Maybe the lack of running game?
The only reason this wasn't a blowout of epic proportions ala the NFCCG was because of Cousins.  He is certainly our best player on O and maybe even better then Harry for best on the team right now. 

again... look at the title of the  thread.   there are plenty of threads to discuss the failures of every other player or aspect of the team.  Zerks assessment is IMO pretty spot on,  while KC is playing at a very high level,  ( which for 28 million a year he should)  but there are areas of improvement in his game that could make him better.  Its not like he is the model of perfection.  Zerk is not bagging on KC, he is simply pointing out some areas of concern... I have seen them as well and have mentioned them in other threads.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Bezerker88" said: Perhaps hold onto the ball instead of putting it on the ground?  Perhaps move around in the pocket?  

I know you guys are thrilled to have a QB that produces stats...  I like Ws more than numbers. Cousins has put the ball on the turf and cost us more games than he’s won for us in this young season.  He has to make better ball control choices to avoid critical turnovers.  Only two INTs but add three lost fumbles(two inside our 25 last game) and that’s 5 turnovers in 4 games.

Sure our D is sucking too... but the D wasn’t mentioned in the title of the thread.  

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL
REALLY????  You watched last nights game and came away with Cousins isn't doing enough?  Did you see the passes?  How about the swiss cheese line?   Donald got through so early he literally threw Cousins to the ground.  On a different play he got nearly sacked on a hand off.  Maybe the lack of running game?
The only reason this wasn't a blowout of epic proportions ala the NFCCG was because of Cousins.  He is certainly our best player on O and maybe even better then Harry for best on the team right now. 

again... look at the title of the  thread.   there are plenty of threads to discuss the failures of every other player or aspect of the team.  Zerks assessment is IMO pretty spot on,  while KC is playing at a very high level,  ( which for 28 million a year he should)  but there are areas of improvement in his game that could make him better.  Its not like he is the model of perfection.  Zerk is not bagging on KC, he is simply pointing out some areas of concern... I have seen them as well and have mentioned them in other threads.

Kirk was damn near perfect last night.  36/50 for 422, 3TDs 0INTs and 1 fumble.  72% completion rate.  At most you can fault him for pocket presences.  Thats it. 

#5 in yards/game#9 in completion percentage#4 in TDs#14 in INTs#10 in QB ratingWay to many sacks.  2nd worst.  But is that him or our OL?

What exactly else is he supposed to do?  He has carried this team on his shoulders this entire season so far. 

Better protection just MIGHT improve Kirk's fumbling issue...but of course that horse has been beaten 5.234 million times with a wet noodle.
Let's all fondly look back at Culpepper's fumbling issue. Could Kirk just have a case of "little hands???"

Through the first four games, the 2018 Vikings offense has scored 4 more points (83 without the defensive TD) than the 2017 Vikings (79 with the two lowest Viking scores of the year).

The Washington Redskins are currently tied with Jacksonville for the least point per game given up on defense (14.7) and their offense is also 4th in rushing at 137.7 yards per game.

Maybe QB play and style influences both offense and defense.  Maybe QB tendencies influence the running game.  Maybe 3-and-outs and turnovers that place the other team in FG range impact the defense.  Or maybe QB stats are all that matter even if a big chunk of them come in a blowout loss.

We finally upgrade the QB position, only to watch the #1 defense plummet to IMHO the bottom of the barrel, despite returning all 11 starters and adding some new pieces in Richardson & Hughes.

WTF?

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Bezerker88" said: Look... the title of the thread is “what more can Cousins do?”   So if you’re happy that he put the ball on the ground inside our 25 twice vs Buffalo and then again last night while trying to drive the team to a tie, I don’t have a problem with that.  I didn’t realize it was a fluff Cousins thread, I thought it was a discussion thread...  My mistake.  Carry on.  

A work buddy texted me after the game.  He's a huge Skins fan, and he said get used to that with Cousins.  He'll rack up huge numbers, but he doesn't move well in the pocket and gets hit from behind quite a bit because he won't step up.  He's not known for having great "pocket awareness".  Aikman even mentioned that after the fumble.

I do think Kirk is playing well, and made some awesome throws, but there's a reason he's not equated to being a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or the next Favre.  He's good, but has flaws and isn't going to carry this team on his back.  As well as Cousins played, I thought Goff looked even better.

Maybe he could take over calling the defense from Zimmer.  Could he do any worse?

Anyone blaming the last loss on Cousins is clueless. Ok the fumble sucked but the defense crapped out repeatedly. Cousins is a bright light in all this, along with Diggs and Thielen. And Rudolph was making some plays last game. Even with the OL issues, Cousins has done some good things. I love watching him throw the deep ball. It's a thing of beauty.

Kirk's fumbling/pocket presence comes down to how to optimize anything.  You don't optimize the entire system, you identify your biggest problem areas and optimize those first because optimizing in other areas won't make enough difference if you don't fix the big things first. Right now these beat out Kirk in terms of problem areas
1) Run blocking2) Run defense3) Pass defense4) Punt team performance
Kirk could have no fumbles from now until February and we'd be lucky to make it into the playoffs if those four areas continue to underperform the way they have so far this season.

@"Vikergirl" said: Anyone blaming the last loss on Cousins is clueless. Ok the fumble sucked but the defense crapped out repeatedly. Cousins is a bright light in all this, along with Diggs and Thielen. And Rudolph was making some plays last game. Even with the OL issues, Cousins has done some good things. I love watching him throw the deep ball. It's a thing of beauty.

Cousins threw for 400+ yards and was our leading rusher. I don't know why that lazy bastard can't block too?

I think the fumble issue is blown madly out of proportion, as no QBs tend to thrive when their blind side protection fails.  In Cousins' case, it's failed far too consistently...and let's face it, our OL has been the bane of every Vikings QB since ol' Burt in 2009.

@"Ralphie" said: Compton's name was called a lot last night....and not in a good way.  Good lord, he was doing his best saloon door impression last night and almost got Cousins killed.  That O line needs an enema.  :s 

Running game and defense has been consistent over 4 games. It's a damn miracle we are able to throw the ball at all in these conditions.

That game was about as "uphill" as it gets for an offense. Up to that point, I wasn't even sure we had the playbook to push back like we did offensively. We overcame a beatdown by their defensive line for a good part of the game; they got to Cousins in a huge way at the end.

Zerk looks like he was just pointing out the importance of that mistake - Aikman even thought Cousins could have slid up into the throw. It's out there; I don't find it to be a big deal - Cousins has looked like a stud and with a shake of fortune we could be pretty tough to play against. 

I see the Teddy fumble comparison - how about the Bradford INT against the Lions for comparison - it's a final mistake that cost us the game. It's just an observation and not an indictment...  personally, i'd probably not slide up there too considering they were crawling over our offensive lineman once they knocked them over/down on their knees. Our offensive line would probably be better with 4 defensive lineman standing there...

Can Linval Joseph play Guard? lol...

@"BlackMagic7" said: Running game and defense has been consistent over 4 games. It's a damn miracle we are able to throw the ball at all in these conditions.

That game was about as "uphill" as it gets for an offense. Up to that point, I wasn't even sure we had the playbook to push back like we did offensively. We overcame a beatdown by their defensive line for a good part of the game; they got to Cousins in a huge way at the end.

Zerk looks like he was just pointing out the importance of that mistake - Aikman even thought Cousins could have slid up into the throw. It's out there; I don't find it to be a big deal - Cousins has looked like a stud and with a shake of fortune we could be pretty tough to play against. 

I see the Teddy fumble comparison - how about the Bradford INT against the Lions for comparison - it's a final mistake that cost us the game. It's just an observation and not an indictment...  personally, i'd probably not slide up there too considering they were crawling over our offensive lineman once they knocked them over/down on their knees. Our offensive line would probably be better with 4 defensive lineman standing there...

Can Linval Joseph play Guard? lol...

I was surprised the offense could go punch to punch with that Rams O as long as they did. But settling for a close loss just wont happen with me. 

Cant help but to imagine the positive halo effect average offensive line play and a running game would have on the D and an already lethal passing game?

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Ralphie" said: Compton's name was called a lot last night....and not in a good way.  Good lord, he was doing his best saloon door impression last night and almost got Cousins killed.  That O line needs an enema.  :s 

Tom Compton is our LG?? I could have sworn we brought old Charlie Johnson back to that spot this season...

It's a bad sad day when you wake up and realize your former #1 defense is the real problem with your team. Cousins put up 31 points on Thursday with a shitty O-line. So, despite us all having deep major concerns about that unit (justifiable, I do know!), the REALLL problem is the D. When I say real, I mean "the biggest." Yes, O-line is still a perennial thorn in the side, especially in light of the fact that the running game is AWOL, but our fugly messed up D is now the worst problem.

@"Ralphie" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Ralphie" said: Compton's name was called a lot last night....and not in a good way.  Good lord, he was doing his best saloon door impression last night and almost got Cousins killed.  That O line needs an enema.  :s 

Tom Compton is our LG?? I could have sworn we brought old Charlie Johnson back to that spot this season...

LOL!  Yup, "Swingin' Door" Charlie is alive and well in Compton!