Does cutting a rookie kicker send a bad message to the rest of the team?

I remember a few years ago when Mason Crosby sucked. He missed at least one FG like 8 to 10 games in a row. And he was not a rookie.  He just lost it that year. But he got it back.  It really is mental with these guys. So the issue is, can Carlson get past this mental block or is this a Blair Walsh repeat?  We are not in a position to know.  Maybe only Carlson is - and what do you think he is going to say?

@"Magnus10" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: While i defend kickers,   I have to ask,  if they dont make a move does that send a message to the rest of the roster?  

^This^

Agreed.  I think it sends a worse message to the team if you do nothing.     52 other guys fought hard to come back and put the team in a position to win a key division game on the road.    Carlson blew it, and can not be trusted for the rest of the year in crucial situations.  

Either cut Carlson, or put him on IR with some phantom leg injury, sign Forbath, Bailey, etc and be done with it.    

@"JimmyinSD" said: While i defend kickers,   I have to ask,  if they dont make a move does that send a message to the rest of the roster?  K is a unique spot as he cant go to the bench for a week or 2,  there is only one K so I will understand if they decide to give him another week considering the teams cap situation.  But as a player who busts ass or sits on the bench,  how can you have a guy that completely shits the bed on 3 different opportunities get to slide?

I can see this one going either way and if I were Zim I am pretty sure I would be leaning on my veterans for some perspective on the pulse of the lockerroom.  We all know that most of our guys were likley doing and saying the right things to the kid last night,  but in private what is their position on the matter?

Zim has no love for kickers. At least that's how it seems. I think it was an omen of things to come. This is not  a Walsh repeat. Walsh was a hero once then went basket case. This kid started screwing up almost the moment they cut Forbath. I think it's most likely going to happen again and cost us again. I hope they are on the phone right now. Find someone who's been there. 

@"jargomcfargo" said: If he stays and does well the rest of the season, wouldn't you feel like he would pee down his leg in the playoffs. They said he makes most all of his kicks in practice, but he has missed several in the games if you include the preseason. The bigger the game the more likely he will miss.  I know there are salary cap issues but I hope they replace him.

I don't think it will even take that long. If he stays this week, I expect he will hit a couple of kicks against the Bills - at home, with a lead, ideal conditions, minimal pressure - and the team will claim it's ok. But 4 days later the Vikings will be on the road, facing the Rams, on national TV, very likely a close game: is Carlson ready for that?

I think it sends the RIGHT message.
Do what you're getting paid to do....or sell insurance

@"Vanguard83" said:

I think it sends the RIGHT message. Do what you're getting paid to do....or sell insurance

I guess that's exactly what message was sent. Pretty amazing. 

Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

@"greediron" said: Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

Ryan Longwell was the same age as Bailey coming over and Ryan had 6 excellent years in Minnesota. Expect Bailey to do the same.
You need mentally tough guys at this position and Bailey is one.

@"greediron" said: Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

i think most of them are on egg shells,  remember back in the day when kickers were comfortable the league average was about 75%,  now anything south of about 90% and you are unemployed and every miss could be your last.  no other position is nearly as volotile with so few chances for redemption.  we have seen young QBs throw 3 or 4 picks in a game and start the next week,  but if a kicker does that he is garbage and needs to clean out his locker.  doesnt lead to much mental stability with working conditions like that.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said: Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

i think most of them are on egg shells,  remember back in the day when kickers were comfortable the league average was about 75%,  now anything south of about 90% and you are unemployed and every miss could be your last.  no other position is nearly as volotile with so few chances for redemption.  we have seen young QBs throw 3 or 4 picks in a game and start the next week,  but if a kicker does that he is garbage and needs to clean out his locker.  doesnt lead to much mental stability with working conditions like that.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said: Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

i think most of them are on egg shells,  remember back in the day when kickers were comfortable the league average was about 75%,  now anything south of about 90% and you are unemployed and every miss could be your last.  no other position is nearly as volotile with so few chances for redemption.  we have seen young QBs throw 3 or 4 picks in a game and start the next week,  but if a kicker does that he is garbage and needs to clean out his locker.  doesnt lead to much mental stability with working conditions like that.

Dang, did someone dog your kicker (get it?)  You are all up in defense of these guys. 

If the QB can't get out of his own head, he would be gone as well.  Forbath wasn't mentally weak, just not a strong kicker that they trusted.  No way this Carlson kid could come out next week after missing 3 in a row.  If a DB gets toasted 3 times in a row, he probably gets the hook.  And with kickers, you only carry one, so he is going to have to get his head right somewhere else.  It isn't like other positions that you can sub someone in.  Star QBs even get pulled at times.  But they pull their shit together and get their job back.

Can't do that with a kicker.  Except for how they just did.  Get your shit together and maybe we give you another try next year.

It just send a truthful message. It says that you need to do your job or we move on. I am thinking we need to do some sort of ritual blessing of the uprights and goal posts to get rid of the bad juju. It couldn't hurt right? 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said: Makes you wonder about the mental stability of many kickers.  Perhaps the should have snipers setup taking shots at his feet during practice.  Or Joseph running full speed at him. 

Makes me long for the days of Fuad.

i think most of them are on egg shells,  remember back in the day when kickers were comfortable the league average was about 75%,  now anything south of about 90% and you are unemployed and every miss could be your last.  no other position is nearly as volotile with so few chances for redemption.  we have seen young QBs throw 3 or 4 picks in a game and start the next week,  but if a kicker does that he is garbage and needs to clean out his locker.  doesnt lead to much mental stability with working conditions like that.

Dang, did someone dog your kicker (get it?)  You are all up in defense of these guys. 

If the QB can't get out of his own head, he would be gone as well.  Forbath wasn't mentally weak, just not a strong kicker that they trusted.  No way this Carlson kid could come out next week after missing 3 in a row.  If a DB gets toasted 3 times in a row, he probably gets the hook.  And with kickers, you only carry one, so he is going to have to get his head right somewhere else.  It isn't like other positions that you can sub someone in.  Star QBs even get pulled at times.  But they pull their shit together and get their job back.

Can't do that with a kicker.  Except for how they just did.  Get your shit together and maybe we give you another try next year.

I did some kicking in HS,  i can sypmathize with the head game of the position and especially what you said about their job security being more fragile than position players.  I think he should get a PS opportunity once he is away from the mess for a couple weeks to see if he can find something from working with Bailey.  every position can benefit from some mentoring.

I guess I really don't see the point in putting Carlson on the practice squad either. Yes, I know Bailey may end up being only a 1 year rental, but if history shows this Vikings team anything it's that finding a good solid kicker isn't easy. Our last 3 have been either head cases or not enough leg. Bailey is 30. He could play for 6-8 more years easily, or even more. If he has success with us this year I think we better find a way to keep him around for a good while.

After Blair and his lost confidence, Carlson should of known better to publicly claim the same thing after missing the field goals.  Job security at that position doesn't last long if your a wreck standing on the sideline waiting. 

I don't think it sends a bad message at all.   It sends  a good message - that the coaches and team are all in and absolute failure won't be tolerated.

Turns out the whole team is protesting today with signs that read:

WE WILL NOT GET ON THE BUS.
DANIEL CARLSON IS ONE OF US!

The only way your analogy works jimmy is if said QB throws 20+ picks because he passes way more than 3 or 4 times  effing kicker had 3 shots----wiiiide right 3 times.  move on end of story.

Same with treddy---I wouldn't even waste time dressing him next week--give it to someone else that's hungry---hell he ran the wrong route again yesterday.  I'd put him on the same  bus as carlson

I like the message, because the kid hadn't earned any job security in his brief stay on the team.  Diggs, Griffen, etc have bodies of work to justify some forgiveness; Carlson had an already-bad preseason game he hadn't lived down.

The footprint on his ass is completely justified.

I actually had more sympathy for Walsh, at the time he was cut, than for Carlson. Walsh had some history as a successful kicker under his belt. Beyond that, when Walsh muffed against Seattle, it felt like we were just lucky to have played fairly even with them (and his earlier 9 points were a big reason), and he just kept a young team from overachieving. But we have a team ready to win now, had 2 opportunities to beat GB and both were blown by Carlson - he was holding back a great team.