This team is too good for a bad rookie kicker

Dan Bailey will only be available for so long…cut the cord now.

We can release Carlson for minor cap relief, but Treadwell would be a cap hit if released.

It'd be cheaper to bench him and utilize one of the young'uns waiting in the wings.

p.s. having said this, I think they give Carlson another week to redeem himself. 

Interesting....no Dan Bailey. I wonder if he's already told Cleveland no?

Mike Garafolo‏Verified account @MikeGarafolo 2m2 minutes ago

#Browns working out kickers today, including veterans Blair Walsh and Cairo Santos, sources say. GM John Dorsey is well acquainted with Santos from his time with the #Chiefs.

Listening to KFAN this morning and Leber's take was:

1. Cutting Carlson at this stage sends a bad message to the locker room, citing the lack of opportunities to prove he does or doesn't have it (I'm paraphrasing, please correct if I'm wrong here)
2. Conversely, Treadwell has had his chances and keeping him around also sends a bad message. Guys questioning if LT is here solely based on draft position and such... Is there really a chance for the Zylstra's of the world to work there way into playing time...

Leber said he'd give Carlson this week (Bills) and possibly next (Rams) before cutting ties.

Another interesting option I heard (not from Leber this time), and I have no idea about cap space and how any this would work regarding that. But, what about waiving Carlson, with the idea that no one will pick him up. Put Carlson on the practice squad to work it out there, then sign Bailey (or whomever) and lets go.

I think Leber is way off...  Carlson has had plenty of chances in preseason and now the regular season to show he can make pressure kicks.  He missed a couple against Seattle in the 3rd preseason game and couldn't do it on a slam dunk 35 yard game-winning FG against Green Bay.  The NFL is about performance and if you don't perform, someone else takes your job.
I don't think the players will revolt if Carlson is cut.  Every team has one kicker and you can't justify burning another roster spot to keep the guy you are replacing.  You cut him and find someone else.  Treadwell's case is a bit different...  most teams typically carry 5+ wide receivers.  If one isn't performing, you can demote that guy to special teams and give more snaps to the #4 or #5 guys.  You aren't forced to cut that guy.
I typically agree with Leber's takes, but not this time.

I would hope that Rick/Zim whomever would have learned from the "let's give Walsh another chance" experiment and not keep this kid around. Do I feel sorry for the kid? Yeah, of course, but not as sorry as I would feel if he plays shitty again next week, and the next, and the next...
Really, do they need to give him another opportunity? You know what would probably happen. He'd have a redeeming game, so they keep him. He then has a shit game but they site the prior week to give him ONE MORE CHANCE. Quite literally he could keep the job all season because of his inconsistency (make a few here, miss a bunch there, make a couple here, miss some there...wash, rinse repeat...) It would be my Blair Walsh nightmare all over again.
I agree with you Wet. I don't think the players would revolt if Carlson is cut. I saw some of their faces on the sidelines after the game. They fought so damn hard only to have it end that way. They sure didn't look happy to me.

we dont have shit for cap space right now.  cutting Treadwell would immediately become a 5 million dollar cap hit.... and siging Bailey would like take another couple million.  as of last week I think I saw where we have about 1.5 million in cap space right now.   All this talk of cutting people and signing people is sweet if the money were there.  they could maybe make Bailey work,  but Treadwell is here through next year most likely.

@"LabGeek" said: Listening to KFAN this morning and Leber's take was:

1. Cutting Carlson at this stage sends a bad message to the locker room, citing the lack of opportunities to prove he does or doesn't have it (I'm paraphrasing, please correct if I'm wrong here)
2. Conversely, Treadwell has had his chances and keeping him around also sends a bad message. Guys questioning if LT is here solely based on draft position and such... Is there really a chance for the Zylstra's of the world to work there way into playing time...

Leber said he'd give Carlson this week (Bills) and possibly next (Rams) before cutting ties.

Another interesting option I heard (not from Leber this time), and I have no idea about cap space and how any this would work regarding that. But, what about waiving Carlson, with the idea that no one will pick him up. Put Carlson on the practice squad to work it out there, then sign Bailey (or whomever) and lets go.

Meh, I've never been impressed by Leber's "insider perspective" and his guesses don't have a good track record. On Carlson, doesn't "here based solely on draft position" also apply? Honestly, I think drafting a PK and giving him the job over Forbath already spoiled any attitude within the locker room.

Beyond that, there is the sense of accountability. Jeff Saturday was on ESPN this morning and said that a miss by a kicker that takes away a win totally deflates the rest of the team and position players see a kicker as someone who, "only has 1 job". 

I think they already gave him his opportunity for redemption - yesterday in overtime.

Also, there are some good kickers available now, but will they be here in two weeks if Carlson keeps crapping the bed? Maybe he'll be OK next week, in the dome, probably with a lead (though he will likely hear booing). But do you really want to trust him in week 4, tough match with the Rams, on national TV? No way he has the nerve for it. The rest of the team will feel that management has forced a kicker on them who will hold them back.

I'm not talking about cutting Treadwell this season, I'm talking about reducing his snaps and getting Coley in there. Move on from him in that way. Phase him out of the offense. He wanted to be more a part of the offense and now he can't handle it. Disappointing to say the least. 

I think they need to sit down with Carlson,  really grill him and see where his head is at.  If he cant convince the coaches this morning that he put that behind him, then get Bailey on the phone and see what his ask is (although I would be disappointed if they dont already know).  I agree that the kid could end up costing the team a game,  but I am no more concerned about Carlson than I would have been with Forbath,  i had zero confidence in him making a kick when we needed it.  

It makes sense that team morale would be affected by letting go of a savvy, team first guy like Robison. Letting go of a rookie kicker who just lost them a huge game?? Not so much...
Edit: Okay, technically he didn't lose them the game...but he didn't win them the game, either. The only solace I take away from this situation is that if we were going to tie with anybody in the division I'm glad it was Green Bay and not the other 2 teams. The Fudge have to live with this outcome too.

They don't have to cut Treadwell right now just his playing time. As far as Carlson is concerned, they need to do something sooner rather than later.

Coley missed a pass that almost ended up in a INT as well. I say demote a few of the WRs and get a guy like Zylstra or Beebe up and give them a chance. Cut Carlson and get Bailey because Carlson has missed several kicks already. So he has a big leg, but he isn't going to do much for us missing most of his kicks.

I'd be surprised if Rick isn't already checking on other free agent PKers.  I'm thinking Zim would have a fit if there wasn't other options available for the team going into the Rams game.  This week they most likely won't need a kicker to make a game winner, but after that they have the Rams then the Eagles.  The team will need a kicker that can be counted on in those games.

@"Neptizzle" said: Coley missed a pass that almost ended up in a INT as well. I say demote a few of the WRs and get a guy like Zylstra or Beebe up and give them a chance. Cut Carlson and get Bailey because Carlson has missed several kicks already. So he has a big leg, but he isn't going to do much for us missing most of his kicks.

Gotta disagree a bit about Coley: the Fox announcers were also taking that idea, but Coley missed a pass and it went through his hands - no one had a great chance to intercept. But Treadwell literally batted the ball up in the air so it was an easy interception opportunity! Coley doesn't seem to be a great upgrade (yet, based on extremely limited sample size), but at least he didn't put the ball up for grabs! Treadwell also had a drop where he just stupidly started running before securing the ball. Stupid rookie mistakes that should not happen with a third-year player.

@"JimmyinSD" said: we dont have shit for cap space right now.  cutting Treadwell would immediately become a 5 million dollar cap hit.... and siging Bailey would like take another couple million.  as of last week I think I saw where we have about 1.5 million in cap space right now.   All this talk of cutting people and signing people is sweet if the money were there.  they could maybe make Bailey work,  but Treadwell is here through next year most likely.

We have to straighten this out, but my understanding is that if Treadwell is cut today, we will still have his 2018 salary ($2.7M) counted against our cap this year (so no cap relief), and next year we will also have to count his 2019 salary ($3.1M). But I don't think cutting him today forces us to add next year's salary to this year's cap. 

@"Neptizzle" said: Coley missed a pass that almost ended up in a INT as well. I say demote a few of the WRs and get a guy like Zylstra or Beebe up and give them a chance. Cut Carlson and get Bailey because Carlson has missed several kicks already. So he has a big leg, but he isn't going to do much for us missing most of his kicks.

Hard to say though what the issue was with the INT.  With a sample size of 1 (and not being able to find a replay of the INT), I'd be willing to give him more chances.  Really, I'm OK with them giving anyone more chances as long as it keeps Treadwell off the field.

I'm not for cutting Treadwell. I think his drops can be overcome, especially considering that it's never really been a problem for him in the past. I am, however, for cutting Carlson asap and bringing in a veteran kicker. Even IF Carlson goes on to make 3, 4, 5 in a row, that doubt, uncertainty will always be with him, the fans, the players, the coaching staff, and the opposing team (they'll chirp at him constantly). And that's a very bad thing as we compete for a title. The bigger the kick, the bigger the doubt. It's a head thing and it's not something he can easily move past. If we can somehow put him on the practice squad, I'd be for that. 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: we dont have shit for cap space right now.  cutting Treadwell would immediately become a 5 million dollar cap hit.... and siging Bailey would like take another couple million.  as of last week I think I saw where we have about 1.5 million in cap space right now.   All this talk of cutting people and signing people is sweet if the money were there.  they could maybe make Bailey work,  but Treadwell is here through next year most likely.

We have to straighten this out, but my understanding is that if Treadwell is cut today, we will still have his 2018 salary ($2.7M) counted against our cap this year (so no cap relief), and next year we will also have to count his 2019 salary ($3.1M). But I don't think cutting him today forces us to add next year's salary to this year's cap.