LB Evolution

I think with a year in Zim's defense under the watchful eye of coach Dre, Richardson will be worthy of a big dollar contract...And based on the last two contracts Brez has authored, it'll be a top 10 contract not a bank breaker...

My guess is Barr might still get done this year...we're slightly under 10 million in available cap...In Brez We Trust...

It depends...  Zimmer hasn't really had a "Geno Atkins" for his defense.  Sheldon Richardson has the talent to fill that role and make this defense even better.

I think Barr gets too much criticism for his lack of splash plays as well...  but even Zimmer acknowledges he tends to coast at times and has him working with the DL to help him evolve as a pass rusher.  He said the other day that too many times last year Barr got in certain situations and didn't have a plan to finish off a play to get the sack.

If Barr is fine with a Kendricks type contract, by all means...  Lock him up.  But if he was willing to do that, I think he'd be signed by now.  I just have a hard time paying two LBs in a 4-3 defense 10+ million each on multi-year deals.

Putting aside the players and just focusing on the needs of the Zimmer scheme, it's more important to have a quality 3T than a SLB.  So signing a quality 3T is a priority over an expensive SLB.

Like you said, if Barr's agent wants 3-4 OLB money to sign, I don't believe he'll get it from us.  He will get it from a 3-4 team, though.  Barr's good, it's just he's not worth as much in our 4-3 scheme.

Also, I disagree on Richardson's value.  He never played in a 4-3 before being traded to Seattle after training camp.  He was the best player on that line and got double-teamed constantly, and still made plays.  I predict he's going to have a monster year.

But we shouldn't try to extend him until he puts up some numbers and we see what might be available in the draft.

Why would Seattle trade their second best Receiver for Richardson and them not try harder to retain him?

He's exactly the kind of piece you start to rebuild your Defense around on paper.  Is Seattle's  FO incompetent? Or was seeing him for one year enough to convince them they made a mistake trading for him?

Richardson has some flags but has top potential.  Ive made clear for a long time Barr is not my fav player although i do recognize his skillset. easily reading between the lines “its on them”, tells me he wants something close to Von Miller and i do not in any way see that happening.  Even Zims quote about him “not having a plan” is to me a nice way of saying stop taking effing plays off.   If Barr would make a few more splashes and get his nose dirty on Josh  Sitton or Lane Taylors jersey, id be willing to have a conversation about top LB money. dont see it happening however cause he doesnt seem to be willing to give 100% every whistle

And yet his numbers.have already exceeded any LB Zimmer had in Cincinnati.

I've seen Barr fill.a key role in Mike's system for four years. And yet people want to see how a guy already on his 3rd team that has always been more hype tham production does instead of paying Barr.

Different players need to be motivated in different ways. For Anthony it's getting critiqued by Mike in the media. Who's to say Hunter or Diggs don't get the same tough love but only behind closed doors.

And the whole splash plays complaint just makes no sense when you look at how Zimmer uses his LBs. They fake the blitz far more often than they actually bring it.

So is Anthony supposed to ignore the call from the sideline and blitz any way so he can improve his sack numbers? 

Won't matter. Mike will get Everson some rest this year by having Barr put his hand on the dirt. I'm sure there will be NASCAR packages were Griff slides into Joseph's spot and Anthony lines up next to him. That should yield more spladh plays.

Again, if he wants 3-4 LB edge rusher money I'm not on board. But the idea many have of waiting to see who plays better between Barr and Richardson makes mo sense to me. Anthony has already proven himself far more than Sheldon has.

@"FSUVike" said: And yet his numbers.have already exceeded any LB Zimmer had in Cincinnati.

I've seen Barr fill.a key role in Mike's system for four years. And yet people want to see how a guy already on his 3rd team that has always been more hype tham production does instead of paying Barr.

Different players need to be motivated in different ways. For Anthony it's getting critiqued by Mike in the media. Who's to say Hunter or Diggs don't get the same tough love but only behind closed doors.

And the whole splash plays complaint just makes no sense when you look at how Zimmer uses his LBs. They fake the blitz far more often than they actually bring it.

So is Anthony supposed to ignore the call from the sideline and blitz any way so he can improve his sack numbers? 

Won't matter. Mike will get Everson some rest this year by having Barr put his hand on the dirt. I'm sure there will be NASCAR packages were Griff slides into Joseph's spot and Anthony lines up next to him. That should yield more spladh plays.

Again, if he wants 3-4 LB edge rusher money I'm not on board. But the idea many have of waiting to see who plays better between Barr and Richardson makes mo sense to me. Anthony has already proven himself far more than Sheldon has.

Isn't that why he was working with the D-Line on pass rushing moves?  I might have read too much into that.

But if I'm Zimmer and I don't trust Weatherly, Bowers, Azuna etc. but I still want to get Everson some rest rushing Barr makes sense. Have his LB spot taken by another DB on those downs.

@"FSUVike" said: Why would Seattle trade their second best Receiver for Richardson and them not try harder to retain him?

He's exactly the kind of piece you start to rebuild your Defense around on paper.  Is Seattle's  FO incompetent? Or was seeing him for one year enough to convince them they made a mistake trading for him?

@"FSUVike" said: Isn't that why he was working with the D-Line on pass rushing moves?  I might have read too much into that.

But if I'm Zimmer and I don't trust Weatherly, Bowers, Azuna etc. but I still want to get Everson some rest rushing Barr makes sense. Have his LB spot taken by another DB on those downs.

I think FSU is onto something here.  Guru has mentioned it as well and I know I have brought it up.  Barr is a key element in the D. His length, speed and intelligence allows Zim to move people around.  There are 3 key people that allow Zimmer to disguise and be creative.  Robison on the line, Barr at LB and Harrison at Safety. 

But as we see so often with Brian, it isn't always about the splash plays.  I went through some games a couple years back.  I think it was Detroit where we had 7 or so sacks.  Brian was instrumental in about 5 of them where he was either double teamed or drew 1 or 2 guys but didn't rush.  Barr has rushed unselfishly as well, drawing the pickup to spring someone else free.

Barr takes away so many plays simply by doing his job well. Backs and other screens don't kill us very often.  QBs don't escape the pocket and cause havoc (ask Rodgers) very often.  But when it is time to close, few can do it like Barr (again, as Rodgers).  Against the mobile QBs Barr is often taking away that threat as well as covering the middle. 

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Why would Seattle trade their second best Receiver for Richardson and them not try harder to retain him?

He's exactly the kind of piece you start to rebuild your Defense around on paper.  Is Seattle's  FO incompetent? Or was seeing him for one year enough to convince them they made a mistake trading for him?

See Percy Harvin swindle  

They seem to get poor returns when trading for WRs...

At the end of the day, I hope if they want to retain both, they're able to do so without crippling other areas on the team. 

I think we're at the point where they'll let this season play-out and see what (if any) benefit they get from hindsight.

Let the chips fall where they may this season and make informed decisions when the new league year starts. 

Seahawks didn't just give up a starting receiver, they gave up a 2nd round pick as well, which the Jets used to move up for Sam Darnold. 
But pretty much everything I've read indicates that the Seahawks would've loved to keep Richardson. They raved about him. They just couldn't afford him, or anyone else for that matter. They traded Michael Bennett and waived Richard Sherman to save $19 million in cap room in order to sign Richardson. But they couldn't get a deal done before the start of free agency. And tagging him would've cost $14M. In the end, they replaced Bennett and Richardson with Shemar Stephen and Tom Johnson. So very clearly, that's not a team trying to upgrade. That's a team dumping salary.
I think you'll see just how good Richardson is this year. But I hope we don't make a move on either one until we see what we get from them this season. Anything can happen. Richardson has off-field issues in his past. That could bite us in the ass. Or he could explode. So could Barr in his new role coming off the edge. Either way, I think we should wait and see. I think a dominant 3T is a lot more valuable than a 4-3 linebacker, but one could argue our depth is better at 3T with Jalyn Holmes and Jaleel Johnson. Who we choose to extend might be just as much about those guys as it is about Richardson and Barr. 

@"BarrNone55" said: They seem to get poor returns when trading for WRs...

@"MaroonBells" said:

Seahawks didn't just give up a starting receiver, they gave up a 2nd round pick as well, which the Jets used to move up for Sam Darnold.  But pretty much everything I've read indicates that the Seahawks would've loved to keep Richardson. They raved about him. They just couldn't afford him, or anyone else for that matter. They traded Michael Bennett and waived Richard Sherman to save $19 million in cap room in order to sign Richardson. But they couldn't get a deal done before the start of free agency. And tagging him would've cost $14M. In the end, they replaced Bennett and Richardson with Shemar Stephen and Tom Johnson. So very clearly, that's not a team trying to upgrade. That's a team dumping salary. I think you'll see just how good Richardson is this year. But I hope we don't make a move on either one until we see what we get from them this season. Anything can happen. Richardson has off-field issues in his past. That could bite us in the ass. Or he could explode. So could Barr in his new role coming off the edge. Either way, I think we should wait and see. I think a dominant 3T is a lot more valuable than a 4-3 linebacker, but one could argue our depth is better at 3T with Jalyn Holmes and Jaleel Johnson. Who we choose to extend might be just as much about those guys as it is about Richardson and Barr. 

So point being, it is use the Seahawk experience as a base for what he will do in our D, with a strong lockerroom and the offseason to acclimate. 

Good point, Maroon. The Vikings have a pair of young guys taken in the 4th to groom if Sheldon doesn't live up to his billing or decides he wants Aaron Donald type money after a breakout season.

But behind Barr is what, late round picks, Special Teamers and UDFAs? Yeesh.

Having 2 every down LBS that can flat out cover in a scoring League is crucial now, IMO. But so is a having a great 3T. Tough spot for the FO.

Do Jaleel and Jalyn have more upside than Barr's understudies? Can Minnesota find a 3 down LB picking 32nd in next year's Draft?  Only time will tell.

Every time one of our 4 notable FAs has been re-signed during this offseason, fans and posters have declared that it is some sign of the team giving up on or being disappointed in whoever remains unsigned. When Kendricks signed, all 3 of the remaining were disparaged. Then Hunter signed and people speculated that Diggs and Barr might both be left unsigned. Now people are declaring that Diggs' signing was obvious and Barr is the odd man out.
IMO the Vikings have always planned to re-sign all 4 and have a plan to do so. But they can't work out 4 deals simultaneously, so it takes time between each. Barr is easy for 2018: he's already making $12.3M on his 5th year deal, so the kind of smart contract Brez sets up probably won't hurt this year's cap much or at all.
Sure, 2019 and beyond is tougher - but they will have cap relief options named Sendejo, Remmers, and Rudolph. If team management asks Zimmer if he would give up Sendejo and Remmers next year to keep Barr on his team, I think he will say yes without skipping a beat.