Interesting quote from CB Mac Alexander

6 for 19

Alexander held Calvin Ridley for 6 for 19

In a bowl game

Not taking anything away from Hughes as he sounds extremely promising, but Alexander can be the real deal...

@"BarrNone55" said: 6 for 19

Alexander held Calvin Ridley for 6 for 19

In a bowl game

Not taking anything away from Hughes as he sounds extremely promising, but Alexander can be the real deal...

I think Mac is behind the curve.  Hopefully he can step it up a notch this year or Hughes explodes out of the gate.

Captain struggled as well with this defense, but once he bought in, he was very good.  I think Mac is showing maturity here and will be very good this year.  Hughes still has to learn the D.  That will take some time even if he is a willing student.

He will be the dime back and punt returner.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really think the 2016 draft will be remembered as a big ole bust.  Treadwell's issues go without saying, They drafted Mac's replacement in my mind,  same with Brothers.  Beavers is cut, Moritz is gone, which leaves us Morgan, Kearse and, Weatherly.  Those three have shown promise in certain area's, but you would have expected to hit with at least 1 of our 1-4 picks (no third that year.)  Which, we did not that year IMO.

I really like the position we are in, having Alexander, Hughes and  Hill.  Newman can step out and into a great coaching situation.  Marcus has had a great run and will find a year or two elsewhere, not bad for a 30 year old local UDFA.  No one will be thrown out on the street and done wrong.  Upgrade and fan favorite's not being disrespected, two positions open, one on special teams, gotta be room for the three on the big scheme of things.  The kind of story that keeps me a positive fan.

Cart------------------Horse. That's the cart WAY in front of the horse here, for sure, but if somehow Hill turns into a starter type talent by the end of this season (has to make the roster first, still a big if), this would give the team the real decision to let Trae Waynes go in FA after his contract is up. Not sure if they'd want to or not, but as talent gets resigned (Diggs, Barr) tough decisions will need to be made moving forward. And Waynes could be one of them. This is why its so important to backfill the pipeline with young, cheap players on their first contracts (like Holton Hill potentially). I like Waynes and he's improved incrementally each year. 

Just playing out a possible scenario. Not saying its what will happen or if the team even would want that. But the salary cap will demand this kind of thought process by Brez at the very least.

@"StickyBun" said: Cart------------------Horse. That's the cart WAY in front of the horse here, for sure, but if somehow Hill turns into a starter type talent by the end of this season (has to make the roster first, still a big if), this would give the team the real decision to let Trae Waynes go in FA after his contract is up. Not sure if they'd want to or not, but as talent gets resigned (Diggs, Barr) tough decisions will need to be made moving forward. And Waynes could be one of them. This is why its so important to backfill the pipeline with young, cheap players on their first contracts (like Holton Hill potentially). I like Waynes and he's improved incrementally each year. 

Just playing out a possible scenario. Not saying its what will happen or if the team even would want that. But the salary cap will demand this kind of thought process by Brez at the very least.

We have Waynes locked up through 2019...  so this season and next season.  Mackenzie Alexander is also a FA after the 2019 season.  I actually think if Hughes and Holton Hill look like potential starters heading into next year, Mac is the more likely one to hit free agency.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Cart------------------Horse. That's the cart WAY in front of the horse here, for sure, but if somehow Hill turns into a starter type talent by the end of this season (has to make the roster first, still a big if), this would give the team the real decision to let Trae Waynes go in FA after his contract is up. Not sure if they'd want to or not, but as talent gets resigned (Diggs, Barr) tough decisions will need to be made moving forward. And Waynes could be one of them. This is why its so important to backfill the pipeline with young, cheap players on their first contracts (like Holton Hill potentially). I like Waynes and he's improved incrementally each year. 

Just playing out a possible scenario. Not saying its what will happen or if the team even would want that. But the salary cap will demand this kind of thought process by Brez at the very least.

We have Waynes locked up through 2019...  so this season and next season.  Mackenzie Alexander is also a FA after the 2019 season.  I actually think if Hughes and Holton Hill look like potential starters heading into next year, Mac is the more likely one to hit free agency.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Cart------------------Horse. That's the cart WAY in front of the horse here, for sure, but if somehow Hill turns into a starter type talent by the end of this season (has to make the roster first, still a big if), this would give the team the real decision to let Trae Waynes go in FA after his contract is up. Not sure if they'd want to or not, but as talent gets resigned (Diggs, Barr) tough decisions will need to be made moving forward. And Waynes could be one of them. This is why its so important to backfill the pipeline with young, cheap players on their first contracts (like Holton Hill potentially). I like Waynes and he's improved incrementally each year. 

Just playing out a possible scenario. Not saying its what will happen or if the team even would want that. But the salary cap will demand this kind of thought process by Brez at the very least.

We have Waynes locked up through 2019...  so this season and next season.  Mackenzie Alexander is also a FA after the 2019 season.  I actually think if Hughes and Holton Hill look like potential starters heading into next year, Mac is the more likely one to hit free agency.

Gotcha, thanks for that info. Even better, really, as it relates to Holton Hill and his development time. And agreed on Mac Alexander. I'm not trying to push either Waynes or Alexander away as it will be great to have them this year and next, but you can see that something will have to give here in the future. 

There are a few things that have to be remembered here. 

1. Slot CB is the hardest position to play in Zimmer's scheme. Is a combination man/zone concept depending on the offensive alignment and defensive play call. The slot corner needs to understand when to stick with their man or hand him off on the backside of the play. There are hundreds of different play/formation combinations which makes it incredibly challenging. 

2. When you are playing with two above average outside corners you're naturally going to get picked on. That doesn't excuse the slot CB but the level of attention the offense is going to place on you is increased. Every team is going to game plan to focus on the weakest link and that is an easy target in MN's system. 

3. As much as Mac is to blame here, he should take to coaching more positively and accept the role. The Vikings FO drafted him as the heir to Munnerlyn and moving him back and forth (inside/outside) probably created more confusion than it really was worth. 

Year 3 is really when corners come into their own. We'll see if that happens with Mac but if he ultimately can become a decent slot DB his flexibility will be very valuable. 

@"El_Padre" said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really think the 2016 draft will be remembered as a big ole bust.  Treadwell's issues go without saying, They drafted Mac's replacement in my mind,  same with Brothers.  Beavers is cut, Moritz is gone, which leaves us Morgan, Kearse and, Weatherly.  Those three have shown promise in certain area's, but you would have expected to hit with at least 1 of our 1-4 picks (no third that year.)  Which, we did not that year IMO.

1 (23): Laquon Treadwell - Season 3 is the one that really will determine Quon's fate. Albeit on the line if you had to make a black/white decision now the Vikings likely wouldn't pick up his 5th year option which suggests he hasn't been worth his slot value. 

2 (54): Mac Alexander - Although he hasn't developed into a stud DB he's a starting caliber player on at least 50% of NFL defenses. For a late 2nd round pick that's the valuation you're looking for. 

4 (121): Willie Beavers - Complete bust 

5 (160): Kentrell Brothers - One of the better ST players in the NFL. Exceeds typical 5th round pick valuation 

6 (180): Moritz Bohringer - Complete bust

6 (188): David Morgan - Top 3 blocking TE in the league with potential to become a better pass catcher. For a 6th round selection he's exceed his value 

7 (227): Stephen Weatherly - We'll see how he continues to develop but Weatherly has been a good depth piece. Considering the roster-able rate of 7th round picks this has been a low-key hit. 

7 (244): Jayron Kearse - One of the best gunners in the league. Regardless of his ability to play on defense that contribution alone suggest he's exceeded slot value

In all that gives them 3 busts / 2 players worth roughly their value (Mac / Weatherly) / and two who have exceeded their value (Brothers / Kearse). 

You can chalk it up how you want but if you split the difference and say they hit on 3/7 pick that is a 43% hit rate which is roughly league average. So although sub-par when compared to other Vikings classes, it hasn't been a complete flop either. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: There are a few things that have to be remembered here. 

1. Slot CB is the hardest position to play in Zimmer's scheme. Is a combination man/zone concept depending on the offensive alignment and defensive play call. The slot corner needs to understand when to stick with their man or hand him off on the backside of the play. There are hundreds of different play/formation combinations which makes it incredibly challenging. 

2. When you are playing with two above average outside corners you're naturally going to get picked on. That doesn't excuse the slot CB but the level of attention the offense is going to place on you is increased. Every team is going to game plan to focus on the weakest link and that is an easy target in MN's system. 

3. As much as Mac is to blame here, he should take to coaching more positively and accept the role. The Vikings FO drafted him as the heir to Munnerlyn and moving him back and forth (inside/outside) probably created more confusion than it really was worth. 

Year 3 is really when corners come into their own. We'll see if that happens with Mac but if he ultimately can become a decent slot DB his flexibility will be very valuable. 

But your points are excellent.  It is a tough position and as the defense progresses each year with the pattern matching and other complexities, I image it keeps getting harder.  That is why I expect Mac to really flourish this year.  Hughes has lots of learning before he is ready.