2 Opposing OpEd's: Anthony Barr vs Stefon Diggs extensions

When it comes to teams assessing NFL value, though, often the key determinant is this:
How difficult would it be to replace the player, and how vital is the position he plays?
Diggs currently ranks as the Vikings’ second-best pass catcher, behind Adam Thielen. His presence gives the Vikings one of the best receiving corps in the league.
Without Diggs, defenses could more easily concentrate on Thielen, forcing the Vikings to throw the ball to players who are not nearly as dynamic.
Barr gives the Vikings superior athletes at all three levels of their defense, along with defensive ends Everson Griffen and Hunter, and defensive backs Harrison Smith and Xavier Rhodes.
Barr gives Zimmer a defensive chess piece — a player who can rush the quarterback, stuff the run and defend the pass depending on the play call.
Because of Zimmer’s emphasis on building a powerhouse defense, Diggs plays on the needier side of the ball. Losing Diggs might hurt the Vikings offense more than losing Barr would hurt the defense, but losing Barr might make the defense less of a cornerstone.
Me? I possess Super Bowl bias. I see teams winning big with random receivers like Torrey Smith and Danny Amendola, and I see superstar receivers like Antonio Brown, Jones and Odell Beckham Jr. playing for disappointing franchises.
Forced to choose, I’d take the defensive chess piece over the spectacular receiver.

Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?Brzezinski has done a masterful job of keeping the Vikings out of salary-cap hell for 20 seasons, and if anyone can find a way to make new contracts for Barr and Diggs work it would be Brzezinski. But there is a real chance that Barr and/or Diggs could decide they would rather try to break the bank on the open market than accept what the Vikings are going to offer.
Barr, the ninth-overall pick in the 2014 draft, has appeared to be on the brink of stardom at times but also has been inconsistent. Barr had a career-high four sacks during his rookie season, leading to the feeling that he could be used in a variety of ways by coach and defensive mastermind Mike Zimmer. Barr could line up at linebacker on one play and put a hand in the ground as a defensive end on the next.
This type of versatility would make Barr incredibly valuable, but so far he hasn’t delivered with the type of breakthrough season that would make him worth an enormous payday.
Diggs’ case is different.
He has gone from fifth-round pick in 2015 to being an elite wide receiver in the NFL. Diggs has 200 receptions for 2,472 yards and 15 touchdowns in his first three seasons and has combined with Adam Thielen to form of the best receiving duos in the league.
Diggs is proof that fantastic receivers can be found in the late rounds of the NFL draft, but once you get one of those guys giving them up isn’t easy.

There is another option if Barr and Diggs come in over the Vikings’ asking price.
The team could use the franchise tag on either player, meaning the guy who receives the designation would get a one-year contract that would pay him the average of the top five salaries at his position or 120 percent of his previous year’s salary, whichever is greater.
The Vikings have used this designation only twice since it was implemented in 1993. The first came in 2003 when it was put on tight end Jim Kleinsasser and the second in 2011 when it was used on linebacker Chad Greenway. The Vikings likely see this as a last resort, since it often ends up with player who gets the tag being unhappy.
If the Vikings decide they can only keep one between Barr and Diggs, the vote here would be to give Diggs the long-term contract.
Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/06/zulgad-vikings-choose-comes-barr-diggs/

I lean Diggs although if both are asking too much I let them play out the season.  

Hopefully they can get one of them signed this year.  That allows us to have the franchise tag as leverage next year.  We can sign Barr for less this year and look revisit Diggs next year.  If he stays healthy and lights it up, we can restructure a few deals to free up cash to pay him then.    

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

I dont believe we'll see both of the remaining 2 re-upped this year.

I think there's going to have to be some additional roster cuts/contract changes to fit both these guys (and a Thielen contract redux) under the cap. Even under a rising cap. 

Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph and others on the radar. 

And we haven't even gotten to Sheldon Richardson yet - who may have found a home and place to thrive. 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

Good conversation, but I look at it as what will be, will be. The team will prioritize and move forward. The important thing is to keep the pipeline filled with draft picks that contribute on their original contracts to supplement paying talented guys on their 2nd. 

Whether Diggs/Barr stays or goes is ok with me either way, but let's keep this new culture of winning and camaraderie going. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

We can say that both are young, potentially dominant players. What I'm trying to get across is that while Barr has had every opportunity to realize his potential (plus an extra year), Diggs has had to deal with a series of nagging injuries, 3 different OCs and 4 different QBs throwing him the ball. I tend to think that what we've seen from Diggs so far is just scratching the surface. 

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

We can say that both are young, potentially dominant players. What I'm trying to get across is that while Barr has had every opportunity to realize his potential (plus an extra year), Diggs has had to deal with a series of nagging injuries, 3 different OCs and 4 different QBs throwing him the ball. I tend to think that what we've seen from Diggs so far is just scratching the surface. 

I agree he has been hamstrung with alot of QB and scheme changes is his short career. It is the nagging injury thing you mentioned that has me concerned. He has never played all 16 games yet. I dont know if I'd be willing to simply give him twice as much as Thielan this year. It could bite us in the @ss but I let him play this year. If he misses 2-3 games and has 800-900 yards agian then you offer him a contract inline with that production. Barr and Diggs have the highest expectations with regard to what they think they should be paid...imo. They also, as we've both noted, have the most potential to make us sorry we gave them big contracts. This is why they are the last 2. I think you let both play it out and see where they rank to us next year. Could be costly and might lose them. This is better then making a $14 million a year mistake. Richardson might prove more valuable then either at years end. He is another consideration.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

We can say that both are young, potentially dominant players. What I'm trying to get across is that while Barr has had every opportunity to realize his potential (plus an extra year), Diggs has had to deal with a series of nagging injuries, 3 different OCs and 4 different QBs throwing him the ball. I tend to think that what we've seen from Diggs so far is just scratching the surface. 

I agree he has been hamstrung with alot of QB and scheme changes is his short career. It is the nagging injury thing you mentioned that has me concerned. He has never played all 16 games yet. I dont know if I'd be willing to simply give him twice as much as Thielan this year. It could bite us in the @ss but I let him play this year. If he misses 2-3 games and has 800-900 yards agian then you offer him a contract inline with that production. Barr and Diggs have the highest expectations with regard to what they think they should be paid...imo. They also, as we've both noted, have the most potential to make us sorry we gave them big contracts. This is why they are the last 2. I think you let both play it out and see where they rank to us next year. Could be costly and might lose them. This is better then making a $14 million a year mistake. Richardson might prove more valuable then either at years end. He is another consideration.

I would treat the injury history the way I treat them in fantasy football. I ignore them. When you avoid a player because of an injury rep is when the player you chose instead of him gets hurt and the player with the injury rep is MVP. (Thanks for the championship, Todd Gurley).  :-)

I wouldn't factor in the injuries at all when determining WHO to sign, but it would factor into the amount. But that's just me. I get why some would. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

We can say that both are young, potentially dominant players. What I'm trying to get across is that while Barr has had every opportunity to realize his potential (plus an extra year), Diggs has had to deal with a series of nagging injuries, 3 different OCs and 4 different QBs throwing him the ball. I tend to think that what we've seen from Diggs so far is just scratching the surface. 

I agree he has been hamstrung with alot of QB and scheme changes is his short career. It is the nagging injury thing you mentioned that has me concerned. He has never played all 16 games yet. I dont know if I'd be willing to simply give him twice as much as Thielan this year. It could bite us in the @ss but I let him play this year. If he misses 2-3 games and has 800-900 yards agian then you offer him a contract inline with that production. Barr and Diggs have the highest expectations with regard to what they think they should be paid...imo. They also, as we've both noted, have the most potential to make us sorry we gave them big contracts. This is why they are the last 2. I think you let both play it out and see where they rank to us next year. Could be costly and might lose them. This is better then making a $14 million a year mistake. Richardson might prove more valuable then either at years end. He is another consideration.

I would treat the injury history the way I treat them in fantasy football. I ignore them. When you avoid a player because of an injury rep is when the player you chose instead of him gets hurt and the player with the injury rep is MVP. (Thanks for the championship, Todd Gurley).  :-)

I wouldn't factor in the injuries at all when determining WHO to sign, but it would factor into the amount. But that's just me. I get why some would. 

But this is exactly why Sam Bradford wasn't resigned in Minnesota: injuries. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Scoog" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Zulgad: Barr or Diggs? If Vikings can pick only one whom should they keep?

Barr continues to have the potential to be fantastic, but that means four years into his career we continue to talk about what could be as opposed to what he’s done. Zimmer has put together a fantastic defense and many of the key pieces still will be in place if Barr departs. The Vikings offense and Cousins, meanwhile, will suffer if Diggs is elsewhere.

Fair comment regarding Barr, but couldn't you say the same thing about Diggs? Yes, he has the potential to be fantastic - but still has not produced even 1,000 yards in a season, in a passing-crazy league where that level is not an especially high bar.
Also, Zimmer always says that we fans can't evaluate his defensive players because his scheme de-emphasizes stats, so how do we know Barr has not been playing up to his potential? Diggs, meanwhile, plays a position where most of his production is pretty easily measurable.

You're forgetting one huge factor. Diggs performance relies heavily on the QB. And last year the Vikings were playing with a backup. Also, while, yes, this is a pass-crazy league the Vikings were very much a running football team the last few years. Last year, despite losing Cook early, the Vikings ranked near the top in rushing attempts.

I sign Diggs before the season while he still hasn't played 16 games or gone over 1K. His price could be reasonable. I think we've seen the best Barr has. But this is Diggs' 4th season and he'll playing with a QB who can get him the ball deep. I'd hate to have to pay him after what could be an enormous season. 

It could work out. By signing him now you save alot more. What if he has another 13 game 900 yard season? What if we are paying him top 5 wr money? That's the only thing some of us are worried about. 

I get it, but that's where it comes down to matters of opinion. I trust my eyes more than stats and I see a young, potentially dominant receiver who has yet to put it all together. I'd use that to my advantage and sign him now to a top 5 to top 10 type contract. If we wait, and he plays like we all know he's capable of, we could be looking at the highest receiver contract in the NFL. And it's not like a season similar to '17 is going to save us a bunch of money compared to what he'd cost us right now. 

I agree with what you said, but also think "...I see a young, potentially dominant linebacker who has yet to put it all together." etc.
The reason why this debate is seeing so many split opinions is that both players.  We could sign both and look like genius or sign neither and end up dodging 2 bullets or anything in between.

We can say that both are young, potentially dominant players. What I'm trying to get across is that while Barr has had every opportunity to realize his potential (plus an extra year), Diggs has had to deal with a series of nagging injuries, 3 different OCs and 4 different QBs throwing him the ball. I tend to think that what we've seen from Diggs so far is just scratching the surface. 

I agree he has been hamstrung with alot of QB and scheme changes is his short career. It is the nagging injury thing you mentioned that has me concerned. He has never played all 16 games yet. I dont know if I'd be willing to simply give him twice as much as Thielan this year. It could bite us in the @ss but I let him play this year. If he misses 2-3 games and has 800-900 yards agian then you offer him a contract inline with that production. Barr and Diggs have the highest expectations with regard to what they think they should be paid...imo. They also, as we've both noted, have the most potential to make us sorry we gave them big contracts. This is why they are the last 2. I think you let both play it out and see where they rank to us next year. Could be costly and might lose them. This is better then making a $14 million a year mistake. Richardson might prove more valuable then either at years end. He is another consideration.

I would treat the injury history the way I treat them in fantasy football. I ignore them. When you avoid a player because of an injury rep is when the player you chose instead of him gets hurt and the player with the injury rep is MVP. (Thanks for the championship, Todd Gurley).  :-)

I wouldn't factor in the injuries at all when determining WHO to sign, but it would factor into the amount. But that's just me. I get why some would. 

Even if you extrapolate Diggs stats for the games missed he is no where near a TOP 10 WR, statistically.  14 million average salary is TOP money.

I would consider around 11 million with heavy incentives to reach 14 million if he can produce Top 10 production like around 85-90 catches, 1200 yards and around 10 TD's.  

Last year, in 14 games, he had 64 catches, for 849 yards and 8 TD's.  Those stats, even extrapolated out for 2 games missed, are not Top 10 production.  Again a heavy incentive package for him to produce what he thinks he is worth.  Show me baby otherwise play out the year and then decide.  

@"minny65" said: Even if you extrapolate Diggs stats for the games missed he is no where near a TOP 10 WR, statistically.  14 million average salary is TOP money.

I would consider around 11 million with heavy incentives to reach 14 million if he can produce Top 10 production like around 85-90 catches, 1200 yards and around 10 TD's.  

Last year, in 14 games, he had 64 catches, for 849 yards and 8 TD's.  Those stats, even extrapolated out for 2 games missed, are not Top 10 production.  Again a heavy incentive package for him to produce what he thinks he is worth.  Show me baby otherwise play out the year and then decide.  

I am also kind of torn between having these guys play out their deals and getting their best efforts before we let them walk for potential compensatory picks,  VS putting them out on the trade wire and seeing if we can get a 1st or 2nd round offer for them in next years draft vs a 3rd round at best in 2 years.  I can see the value in having them here this year,  but I also think we will be in better shape to replace their production sooner and keep the team viable longer if we move them now.