Better duo: Suh-Donald vs. Joseph-Richardson?

Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

I think Richardson is going to be motivated to succeed with the Vikings. Not only for the next contract, but just from a standpoint of being with other talented players and being competitive. He's learning new pass moves from the D-line coach. The guy is just 27 years old....same age as Aaron Donald believe it or not.

I also think NT David Parry is going to stick as Linval's backup. I like his strength and stoutness inside. If Jaleel Johnson can make some strides and nail down the backup spot to Richardson, that is a talented 4-some. The depth on the D-line is just straight up stupid good. 

In a vacuum I'd say Donald and Suh. But the Vikings probably have the synergies to give Richarson and Joseph better seasons . They have better heat coming off the edges. They also have much better linebackers threatening the A gaps. And as much as the Rams improved their secondary, the core of the Vikings defense has been together for several years now. 

@"MaroonBells" said: In a vacuum I'd say Donald and Suh. But the Vikings probably have the synergies to give Richarson and Joseph better seasons . They have better heat coming off the edges. They also have much better linebackers threatening the A gaps. And as much as the Rams improved their secondary, the core of the Vikings defense has been together for several years now. 

This sums up my take pretty well.

@"MaroonBells" said: In a vacuum I'd say Donald and Suh. But the Vikings probably have the synergies to give Richarson and Joseph better seasons . They have better heat coming off the edges. They also have much better linebackers threatening the A gaps. And as much as the Rams improved their secondary, the core of the Vikings defense has been together for several years now. 

It will be interesting to see where the Rams will get their edge rush from on D. Robert Quinn moved on to Miami. I wonder if opponents will try to exploit it....my guess is yes. To your point, Minnesota is a more complete defense. The talented Viking's D is playing Zimmer's defense on auto pilot now, letting their athleticism come to the forefront and thinking to a minimum. If Hughes continues his aptitude for the slot, it might be huge. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: In a vacuum I'd say Donald and Suh. But the Vikings probably have the synergies to give Richarson and Joseph better seasons . They have better heat coming off the edges. They also have much better linebackers threatening the A gaps. And as much as the Rams improved their secondary, the core of the Vikings defense has been together for several years now. 

It will be interesting to see where the Rams will get their edge rush from on D. Robert Quinn moved on to Miami. I wonder if opponents will try to exploit it....my guess is yes. To your point, Minnesota is a more complete defense. The talented Viking's D is playing Zimmer's defense on auto pilot now, letting their athleticism come to the forefront and thinking to a minimum. If Hughes continues his aptitude for the slot, it might be huge. 

Suh is a goon. He will be motivated by playing on a good team. However when you hit adversity. Which will happen during a season even for a good team. Then Suh will show his downside. He's not worth the headache...imo. Donald is great though. Overall I like our chemical mix and added experimental time Zims had. Ours is better then theirs. Outlook good say my purple magic 8 ball. 
As others have stated...Eagles, Rams and Vikes are all pretty good. You add in Saints, Panthers, Packers and Falcons. That's alot of good to get past.

@"MaroonBells" said: In a vacuum I'd say Donald and Suh. But the Vikings probably have the synergies to give Richarson and Joseph better seasons . They have better heat coming off the edges. They also have much better linebackers threatening the A gaps. And as much as the Rams improved their secondary, the core of the Vikings defense has been together for several years now. 

I would give the edge to a true NT and 3 Tech over two guys that play the same position.  Plus our D is better all around. 

You think dropping Suh and Aqib Talib onto that roster will result in an effective team? Please. Even Marcus Peters has potential to make trouble. Aaron Donald is great, but not entirely happy with his team management. 

The Rams owe a lot of their 2017 success to playing a weak schedule and surprising the league. That's often a recipe for a team to take a step back (like last years' Raiders), especially when the team's management gets cute and lets some good players leave and chases splashy FAs. I'll be surprised if they get past 8-8 and a huge meltdown wouldn't surprise me.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

Did I suddenly miss where Minnesota signed Neon Deion Sanders and his clone? Last I checked Rhodes and Waynes were very good tacklers.

The Giants used their 'NASCAR' package for years without getting gashed by the run. As long as Zimmer uses the look judiciously there should be no concerns.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

Did I suddenly miss where Minnesota signed Neon Deion Sanders and his clone? Last I checked Rhodes and Waynes were very good tacklers.

The Giants used their 'NASCAR' package for years without getting gashed by the run. As long as Zimmer uses the look judiciously there should be no concerns.

they would have receivers blocking up on them  or possibly a pulling G, lead blocker etc.  I am not sayin they would be giving up 20 to 30 yards a shot,  but I dont like weakening one level to try and improve another.  our weakness at LB has me scratching my head on the Barr experiment since we really dont have a player that is close to Barrs ability at LB.   I am just saying we had the best D in the league last year,  I am hoping that Zim doesnt get to cute and out smart himself... he wouldnt be the first guy to break something while trying to fix something that wasnt broken to begin with.

@"Jor-El" said: You think dropping Suh and Aqib Talib onto that roster will result in an effective team? Please. Even Marcus Peters has potential to make trouble. Aaron Donald is great, but not entirely happy with his team management. 

The Rams owe a lot of their 2017 success to playing a weak schedule and surprising the league. That's often a recipe for a team to take a step back (like last years' Raiders), especially when the team's management gets cute and lets some good players leave and chases splashy FAs. I'll be surprised if they get past 8-8 and a huge meltdown wouldn't surprise me.

Exactly. The Raiders didn't get LA. So the Rams are becoming the new Raiders. These guys are not the kind of guys you want when things get tough. These are guys who implode and rot a cancerous death.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

Did I suddenly miss where Minnesota signed Neon Deion Sanders and his clone? Last I checked Rhodes and Waynes were very good tacklers.

The Giants used their 'NASCAR' package for years without getting gashed by the run. As long as Zimmer uses the look judiciously there should be no concerns.

they would have receivers blocking up on them  or possibly a pulling G, lead blocker etc.  I am not sayin they would be giving up 20 to 30 yards a shot,  but I dont like weakening one level to try and improve another.  our weakness at LB has me scratching my head on the Barr experiment since we really dont have a player that is close to Barrs ability at LB.   I am just saying we had the best D in the league last year,  I am hoping that Zim doesnt get to cute and out smart himself... he wouldnt be the first guy to break something while trying to fix something that wasnt broken to begin with.

I think you are worrying just a wee bit much considering this was a blurb from OTAs about Barr working on handwork with the d-line.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

Did I suddenly miss where Minnesota signed Neon Deion Sanders and his clone? Last I checked Rhodes and Waynes were very good tacklers.

The Giants used their 'NASCAR' package for years without getting gashed by the run. As long as Zimmer uses the look judiciously there should be no concerns.

they would have receivers blocking up on them  or possibly a pulling G, lead blocker etc.  I am not sayin they would be giving up 20 to 30 yards a shot,  but I dont like weakening one level to try and improve another.  our weakness at LB has me scratching my head on the Barr experiment since we really dont have a player that is close to Barrs ability at LB.   I am just saying we had the best D in the league last year,  I am hoping that Zim doesnt get to cute and out smart himself... he wouldnt be the first guy to break something while trying to fix something that wasnt broken to begin with.

I think you are worrying just a wee bit much considering this was a blurb from OTAs about Barr working on handwork with the d-line.

no,  Griff was talking yesterday about Barr lining up outside of him on passing downs.   it might be the next sliced bread,  or it might be burnt toast,  but it sounds like something is happening with Barr at DE on passing downs.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Rams are so loaded on paper, it's crazy what they've done. Vikings, Eagles and Saints. Those are tough 4 outs. Then right below that is the Packers, Cowboys, Falcons. I'm probably missing some team. 

A motivated Suh next to this generations John Randle is a scary thought. We'll be seeing em this year too in the regular season I believe?

I have high hopes for our duo too. I think they could be even better against the run than Suh/Donald, but I'd give the pass rush nod to The Rams duo.

The interesting point is what Guru brought-up in another thread...The potential for Linval to sit on 3rd and longs and put Barr at end and slide EG inside next to Richardson.

Going to enjoy this season, hope Richardson is the real deal and hope we can keep him long term. 

he also mentioned then bringing a S down into the box to replace Barr and then running another DB onto the field... unless its 3rd and a country mile, why wouldnt a team then just run left on that formation?  Barr has trouble getting off blocks,  EG would be trapped inside by Barr.  I know the thoughts on creating a monster pass rush scenario, but unless its a must pass scenario i think we would get to weak against the threat of a run... and if it is just a must pass situation... well its so rare it IMO hard to get giddy about especially since most the time teams only rush 3 in those situations.   I still think our best look will be the occasional AA gap  blitz opened up by the double teams in the middle that Richardson will demand.  it wasnt as effective without a dominant 3T, but with Richardson in there with LJ.... that dog will hunt once again.

Did I suddenly miss where Minnesota signed Neon Deion Sanders and his clone? Last I checked Rhodes and Waynes were very good tacklers.

The Giants used their 'NASCAR' package for years without getting gashed by the run. As long as Zimmer uses the look judiciously there should be no concerns.

they would have receivers blocking up on them  or possibly a pulling G, lead blocker etc.  I am not sayin they would be giving up 20 to 30 yards a shot,  but I dont like weakening one level to try and improve another.  our weakness at LB has me scratching my head on the Barr experiment since we really dont have a player that is close to Barrs ability at LB.   I am just saying we had the best D in the league last year,  I am hoping that Zim doesnt get to cute and out smart himself... he wouldnt be the first guy to break something while trying to fix something that wasnt broken to begin with.

I think you are worrying just a wee bit much considering this was a blurb from OTAs about Barr working on handwork with the d-line.

no,  Griff was talking yesterday about Barr lining up outside of him on passing downs.   it might be the next sliced bread,  or it might be burnt toast,  but it sounds like something is happening with Barr at DE on passing downs.

You think it's over tinkering with what works, but this is not a static League.

Two years ago Zimmer's Double A Gap Blitz look was so feared Eli Manning sort of quit before the game even started. Did Zimmer keep beating that look to death last year?

Nope. To my eyes he showed that look far fewer times last year. The result? Number 1 Defense and an all timer on 3rd Downs.

So for an encore he should do exactly what he did last year? Knowing OCs spent the offseason cooking up plays to counteract his Defense?

Um, no. He's continuing to add wrinkles. That's how you stay ahead in an ever-changing League. And some wrinkles are probably pure smoke just to give OCs more to worry over.

Shoot, it's already working on you before we've even seen it one time during the season! I'd say Mission Accomplished ; )

Joseph and Richardson over Donald and Suh. Suh is bigger in name than performance. Donald is the best in the game but not a mile ahead of Linval. 

Throw in the fact that the Minnesota edge is better than LA and their LBs are drastically better, it will lead to better overall performance of our DTs versus theirs. 

regarding LA, they have essentially a net 0 in my mind with additions. I would rather have Trumaine over Talib, Watkins over Cooks, Quinn over Suh. Plus you can throw them into the best in the NFC conversation until you value the most important position on the field, QB. 

Goff is good, but not showing special and when you have Min with their pieces and Cousins, NO with Brees, the Eagles with Wentz plus ATL and GB and their MVP QBs, it is hard to bet on LA to be as good as everyone believes they are. 

Well, two of them are Vikings, need I go on!?  B)

@"Skodin" said: Joseph and Richardson over Donald and Suh. Suh is bigger in name than performance. Donald is the best in the game but not a mile ahead of Linval. 

Throw in the fact that the Minnesota edge is better than LA and their LBs are drastically better, it will lead to better overall performance of our DTs versus theirs. 

regarding LA, they have essentially a net 0 in my mind with additions. I would rather have Trumaine over Talib, Watkins over Cooks, Quinn over Suh. Plus you can throw them into the best in the NFC conversation until you value the most important position on the field, QB. 

Goff is good, but not showing special and when you have Min with their pieces and Cousins, NO with Brees, the Eagles with Wentz plus ATL and GB and their MVP QBs, it is hard to bet on LA to be as good as everyone believes they are. 

Just for reference:
PFF Ranks:Donald:  99.7 (#1 ranked DI - Elite)
Suh:  90.9 (#5 ranked DI - Elite)
Joseph:  88.7 (#11 ranked DI - High Quality)
Richardson:  83.8 (#27 ranked DI - Above Average)

Stats (Average Sacks - Average Tackles):Donald:  9-37
Suh:  6.4-36
Joseph:  2.8-35.8
Richardson:  3.8-33.8