Barr- WHY?

Because coaches coach and agents and GM's deal. Coaches don't care about money or where you were drafted. It's the way it should be.

I wondered about this too. Maybe they want it to work out that way (make his price out of their range). It would put all the "blame" so-to-speak at Barr's door if he makes a huge contract demand that they cannot match. Then they can let him walk without fans thinking they didn't try to retain him....
*this is obviously very much a tinfoil hat theory on my part*

@"suncoastvike" said: Because coaches coach and agents and GM's deal. Coaches don't care about money or where you were drafted. It's the way it should be.

Barr can rush the quarterback from the DE position or drop back in coverage.  He's been doing that all along.  the only difference is that on some plays he will start with his hand in the dirt.  Really no big significance as far as I can see.

I do think they might be appeasing him some.  But it is way too early to think that they will play him very much as a DE.  Zimmer loves his wrinkles and I can see some but rare plays where Barr is playing from DE.  Not enough to warrant DE money - IMO.  Agree that it would be highlighting Barr's skill set for a 3-4 team.

Barr's strength has been coverage, not tackling or pass rushing.  If he and his camp are talking top DE money then I have to let him walk or maybe swing a trade before this season to get some picks - like 2nd next year and 4th the following.  But we have no replacement for Barr and are thinner at LB'er then any other position on the team - IMO.

That said, a lot of veteran LB'ers get cut late and are even available now.  None will be as good as Barr in Zimmers scheme but for that type of money I just can't see us paying him DE type money from the LB position.  He is the one of the big 3 that we might lose this year or next. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"suncoastvike" said: Because coaches coach and agents and GM's deal. Coaches don't care about money or where you were drafted. It's the way it should be.

do you really believe that?  I think we have seen plenty of proof that coaches play politics just as much as the GMs do at times.

@"ArizonaViking" said: Barr can rush the quarterback from the DE position or drop back in coverage.  He's been doing that all along.  the only difference is that on some plays he will start with his hand in the dirt.  Really no big significance as far as I can see.

@"minny65" said: I do think they might be appeasing him some.  But it is way too early to think that they will play him very much as a DE.  Zimmer loves his wrinkles and I can see some but rare plays where Barr is playing from DE.  Not enough to warrant DE money - IMO.  Agree that it would be highlighting Barr's skill set for a 3-4 team.

Barr's strength has been coverage, not tackling or pass rushing.  If he and his camp are talking top DE money then I have to let him walk or maybe swing a trade before this season to get some picks - like 2nd next year and 4th the following.  But we have no replacement for Barr and are thinner at LB'er then any other position on the team - IMO.

That said, a lot of veteran LB'ers get cut late and are even available now.  None will be as good as Barr in Zimmers scheme but for that type of money I just can't see us paying him DE type money from the LB position.  He is the one of the big 3 that we might lose this year or next. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"minny65" said: I do think they might be appeasing him some.  But it is way too early to think that they will play him very much as a DE.  Zimmer loves his wrinkles and I can see some but rare plays where Barr is playing from DE.  Not enough to warrant DE money - IMO.  Agree that it would be highlighting Barr's skill set for a 3-4 team.

Barr's strength has been coverage, not tackling or pass rushing.  If he and his camp are talking top DE money then I have to let him walk or maybe swing a trade before this season to get some picks - like 2nd next year and 4th the following.  But we have no replacement for Barr and are thinner at LB'er then any other position on the team - IMO.

That said, a lot of veteran LB'ers get cut late and are even available now.  None will be as good as Barr in Zimmers scheme but for that type of money I just can't see us paying him DE type money from the LB position.  He is the one of the big 3 that we might lose this year or next. 

if they were interested in moving AB... I think they would have made a bigger push to sign M Kendricks or some other decent vet LB prior to mini camp.

I think its as simple as a player expanding their tool kit and a coaching staff working to get the most of their assets. I like it.

I think when you look at why our defense started to struggle at the end of the year, I think its pretty clear that Griffens injury played a large part of it.  Furthermore, if you look at Griffen's injury, plantar fasciatis is something that players can have to deal with for multiple years.  Griffen might have fully torn his, though.  Either way, I think it highlighted the need for ensuring that we are able to get sufficient pass rush if one of our main pass rush threats isn't as able as they used to be.  When I look at all our potential pass rush threats, Barr is probably still well above the project guys on the team.  Firstly, getting more pass rush from the LBs allows us to be much more varied in the looks we present, and secondly if we really need to replace a Griffen type player, it might be more valuable to have Barr at DE just because DE pressure is so much more valuable than a coverage LB.

I really think there's more positives too this than potential negative outcomes.

@"medaille" said: I think when you look at why our defense started to struggle at the end of the year, I think its pretty clear that Griffens injury played a large part of it.  Furthermore, if you look at Griffen's injury, plantar fasciatis is something that players can have to deal with for multiple years.  Griffen might have fully torn his, though.  Either way, I think it highlighted the need for ensuring that we are able to get sufficient pass rush if one of our main pass rush threats isn't as able as they used to be.  When I look at all our potential pass rush threats, Barr is probably still well above the project guys on the team.  Firstly, getting more pass rush from the LBs allows us to be much more varied in the looks we present, and secondly if we really need to replace a Griffen type player, it might be more valuable to have Barr at DE just because DE pressure is so much more valuable than a coverage LB.

I really think there's more positives too this than potential negative outcomes.

@"JimmyinSD" said: Ok,  so for the last couple weeks of camp we have heard about Barr working with the DEs on pass rushing,  some have speculated that it was more an effort to get him better at getting off blocks when he blitzes from his LB spot,  but others are convinced that he will be putting his hand in the dirt and coming off an end... Griff seems to agree that AB will be playing some end for us this year.... my question is why?   going into a contract year,  why are they handing his agent a reason to try and pull a bigger contract?   lets say he does well in this new roll,  are the Vikings then going to pay him like a top pass rusher and move Griff?   are they going to showcase his talents early and then move him before the trade deadline? (in a push for a superbowl... highly unlikely)  I dont understand the thought process here unless Zim has crazy new scheme that he wants to deploy and none of the other DEs that we have on the roster will fit the roll?

I still question the team setting up his agent to demand an even higher pay day considering it already looks like we wont be able to pay them all.

I think this is simply finding a way to transform the defense and bring it to the next level. If you can turn Barr into a speed rusher off the edge it gives you the ability to get Linval off the field on pure passing downs and expand your blitz package. Everson can slide inside next to Richardson with Barr and Hunter on the edges. You have to like your chances that one of those guys is going to win 1x1 a majority of the time.

But the more unique concept is that if you bring Barr down onto the line you can use a safety/corner in the nickle LB spot without losing much size. It gives you a much bigger pass rushing arsenal conceptually since you can disguise your safety with that player and also drop Barr into coverage to rotate the side your rush attacks. In a nutshell you create a situation similar to the A-gap blitz where you can dictate how the QB calls his protection and then attack the mismatch to get unblocked rushers. 

2 reasons.  Barr is miscast in a 4-3 and has highest ceiling as a 3-4 end.  i would guess you would see him standing up and down at end in this new wrinkle. 

2nd, its another hedge as Hunter is coming due.  

Coach Zimmer sees something there and he wants to utilize it. Why the hell not. 

@"ArizonaViking" said: Barr can rush the quarterback from the DE position or drop back in coverage.  He's been doing that all along.  the only difference is that on some plays he will start with his hand in the dirt.  Really no big significance as far as I can see.

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I think this is simply finding a way to transform the defense and bring it to the next level. If you can turn Barr into a speed rusher off the edge it gives you the ability to get Linval off the field on pure passing downs and expand your blitz package. Everson can slide inside next to Richardson with Barr and Hunter on the edges. You have to like your chances that one of those guys is going to win 1x1 a majority of the time.

But the more unique concept is that if you bring Barr down onto the line you can use a safety/corner in the nickle LB spot without losing much size. It gives you a much bigger pass rushing arsenal conceptually since you can disguise your safety with that player and also drop Barr into coverage to rotate the side your rush attacks. In a nutshell you create a situation similar to the A-gap blitz where you can dictate how the QB calls his protection and then attack the mismatch to get unblocked rushers. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Ok,  so for the last couple weeks of camp we have heard about Barr working with the DEs on pass rushing,  some have speculated that it was more an effort to get him better at getting off blocks when he blitzes from his LB spot,  but others are convinced that he will be putting his hand in the dirt and coming off an end... Griff seems to agree that AB will be playing some end for us this year.... my question is why?   going into a contract year,  why are they handing his agent a reason to try and pull a bigger contract?   lets say he does well in this new roll,  are the Vikings then going to pay him like a top pass rusher and move Griff?   are they going to showcase his talents early and then move him before the trade deadline? (in a push for a superbowl... highly unlikely)  I dont understand the thought process here unless Zim has crazy new scheme that he wants to deploy and none of the other DEs that we have on the roster will fit the roll?

I still question the team setting up his agent to demand an even higher pay day considering it already looks like we wont be able to pay them all.

I think you're incorrectly thinking that the Vikings are a monolith. Zimmer's job is to win. I doubt he thinks too much about contracts. He probably thinks that Barr can add another dimension to his pass rush. And if that helps us win, I'm all for it. Think about what you're saying here. Damn, if I found out that Zimmer intentionally held something back in the interest of saving money, I'd be pretty pissed. And think about how Barr would feel.