Exploring one NFL exec’s claim that Kirk Cousins is ‘not a finisher’

@"minny65" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Poiple" said: The Vikes have had some terrible luck with the health of O lineman.  It really surprising to me that the O line is a well known weakness for several years and Rick hasnt done a great job of addressing it.  He is usually very methodical about fixing shortcomings.  I thought i had a read on him and his mad methods. But this O line situation is surprising.  There will be more cuts coming up.  I am aure he will be scouring the wires looking for an opportunity.  Maybe a trade? Sandejo for a starting RT?

Agreed. He got caught napping in this year's Draft for offensive lineman. I'm still in shock they'll be starting the same 5 as last year. If they can stay healthy, I really think they'll be fine. Nothing more than fine, however. But if Reiff goes down early, for instance? Bad news. But that applies to any team's starting LT, to be fair. As you mention, the team's luck with health for the O-line is shitty. 

Hill was only a starter because of injury.  Essentially he is a new starter.  

As far as fixing the OL,  what was he suposed to do this year?  I don't recall any cheap OT talent out there and the draft didn't fall as expected so he didn't the best he could.

He added 2 starters via FA and one from the draft last year so this notion that Rick has largely ignored the OL is suspect at best. ..especially considering how nearly every team in the league is short on OL.

Plus O'Neill was only the 3rd Tackle taken in the draft and didn't warrant our 30th pick over Hughes who is looking very good early.
McGlichey went (9) and then Kolten Miller went (15) and we didn't have the ammo to move up nor would I want to.  The position was not ignored.  We planned on Remmers taking over for Berger and didn't want to go Guard over Tackle, so I am not sure the draft didn't go the way we wanted.  

Last year we drafted Elflein in the 3rd and signed 2 FA's.  This year we draft O'Niell in the 3rd and brought in a couple vets at Guard to compete/backup.  The OL has not been ignored.  But we certainly had our share of injuries especially 3 years ago we were decimated along the line.  Again not ignored but not good fortune.  

@"Poiple" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Poiple" said: i have said repeatedly that i hope he does do well.  Ive been a fan longer than most of you.  I think it is over all a very strange situation and as the artcles point out. it is a gamble that is all

OK I guess one man's use of the word strange is different then others.

Again, we think he is a potential franchise QB and paid him as such = not strange but the actual market, supply and demand.  

Minny,  I dont know how anyone cant see it as strange.   The Vikes have three vets on staff and dont offer any of them a new contract.  That by itself is strange but this isnt a bunch of losers.  Its first round draft picks and a guy who just went 13-3 and took them to a NFCC.

Then they give a record breaking contract, GUARENTEED to a QB from another team who has some pretty big questions about him as the article points out.

Most NFL fans I’ve spoken to agree its a a strange situation but here at Purple Thoughts West its a matter of proof that you must be a rabble rouser and hoping the team fails. 

WTF is wrong with you guys?

@"minny65" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Poiple" said: The Vikes have had some terrible luck with the health of O lineman.  It really surprising to me that the O line is a well known weakness for several years and Rick hasnt done a great job of addressing it.  He is usually very methodical about fixing shortcomings.  I thought i had a read on him and his mad methods. But this O line situation is surprising.  There will be more cuts coming up.  I am aure he will be scouring the wires looking for an opportunity.  Maybe a trade? Sandejo for a starting RT?

Agreed. He got caught napping in this year's Draft for offensive lineman. I'm still in shock they'll be starting the same 5 as last year. If they can stay healthy, I really think they'll be fine. Nothing more than fine, however. But if Reiff goes down early, for instance? Bad news. But that applies to any team's starting LT, to be fair. As you mention, the team's luck with health for the O-line is shitty. 

Hill was only a starter because of injury.  Essentially he is a new starter.  

As far as fixing the OL,  what was he suposed to do this year?  I don't recall any cheap OT talent out there and the draft didn't fall as expected so he didn't the best he could.

He added 2 starters via FA and one from the draft last year so this notion that Rick has largely ignored the OL is suspect at best. ..especially considering how nearly every team in the league is short on OL.

Plus O'Neill was only the 3rd Tackle taken in the draft and didn't warrant our 30th pick over Hughes who is looking very good early.
McGlichey went (9) and then Kolten Miller went (15) and we didn't have the ammo to move up nor would I want to.  The position was not ignored.  We planned on Remmers taking over for Berger and didn't want to go Guard over Tackle, so I am not sure the draft didn't go the way we wanted.  

Last year we drafted Elflein in the 3rd and signed 2 FA's.  This year we draft O'Niell in the 3rd and brought in a couple vets at Guard to compete/backup.  The OL has not been ignored.  But we certainly had our share of injuries especially 3 years ago we were decimated along the line.  Again not ignored but not good fortune.  

I don't really think you can compare the Vikings team to the teams that he has played on though. His defenses have not been good. I feel that is very important when it comes to a QB being able to finish and have full confidence.
Here are the last 3 years of his putrid defense -
                     PTS             YDS            PASS            RUSH


2017-           27th            21st           9th              32nd
2016 -          18th            18th          12th             28th
2015 -          18th            18th          12th             28th

I see nothing that gives credit or blame to the play calling by the Offensive Coordinator.  Last I checked, the QB does not call ALL the plays, particularly in the RedZone.  Relax.  He had a supporting cast in DC that was quite possibly not the best in the league.  Quite possibly.

@"Montana Tom" said: I see nothing that gives credit or blame to the play calling by the Offensive Coordinator.  Last I checked, the QB does not call ALL the plays, particularly in the RedZone.  Relax.  He had a supporting cast in DC that was quite possibly not the best in the league.  Quite possibly.

I have considered this quite a lot.  I also consider it a very large factor on things like passing yardage.  The Vikes are a conservative control the clock kind of team, or at least have been.  I wonder what the new offense will look like.  I wonder how much of that was Zimmer.  I wouldnt expect Cousins to throw for 4k.  He might but I dont expect it.  But who really cares, just win baby.

@"Canthony" said: I don't really think you can compare the Vikings team to the teams that he has played on though. His defenses have not been good. I feel that is very important when it comes to a QB being able to finish and have full confidence. Here are the last 3 years of his putrid defense -                      PTS             YDS            PASS            RUSH 2017-           27th            21st           9th              32nd 2016 -          18th            18th          12th             28th 2015 -          18th            18th          12th             28th

Wow, 28th, 28th, and 32nd. Hard for a QB to finish a game when his D is letting the other team pound the rock and kill the clock. 

If Case Keenum can play like he did last year in Minnesota, Cousins can certainly take the next step also. What did Keenum do before last year? Cousins has a body of work at least. 

I think the odds are much higher that Case takes a step back and Kirk a step forward this year. 

@"StickyBun" said: If Case Keenum can play like he did last year in Minnesota, Cousins can certainly take the next step also. What did Keenum do before last year? Cousins has a body of work at least. 

I think the odds are much higher that Case takes a step back and Kirk a step forward this year. 

Idk Stickman.  I seldom disagree with you but here...
I look at the reasons Case did well.  His O line was not good yet he was able to move around in the pocket better much better than most, kept his eyes diwnfield, sensed pressure and somehow knew when to bolt.  Then he usually threw accurately on the run.  The guy had a similar cast as Bradford the previous season, yet he did much better (8-8 vs 13-3). Being an accurate pocket passer behind a medicore line maybe isnt a good match.
I really think Case’s skillset is much different than Bradfords, and maybe Cousins’.  
I am pretty certain that letting Case go meant upgrading the Oline substantially was a neccessity this year.  I honestly havent seen enough of Cousins’ work to speak to his ability to avoid the pass rush and throw accurately on the run.  Hopefully he excells at it.

@"Poiple" said:

@"StickyBun" said: If Case Keenum can play like he did last year in Minnesota, Cousins can certainly take the next step also. What did Keenum do before last year? Cousins has a body of work at least. 

I think the odds are much higher that Case takes a step back and Kirk a step forward this year. 

Idk Stickman.  I seldom disagree with you but here...
I look at the reasons Case did well.  His O line was not good yet he was able to move around in the pocket better much better than most, kept his eyes diwnfield, sensed pressure and somehow knew when to bolt.  Then he usually threw accurately on the run.  The guy had a similar cast as Bradford the previous season, yet he did much better (8-8 vs 13-3). Being an accurate pocket passer behind a medicore line maybe isnt a good match.
I really think Case’s skillset is much different than Bradfords, and maybe Cousins’.  
I am pretty certain that letting Case go meant upgrading the Oline substantially was a neccessity this year.  I honestly havent seen enough of Cousins’ work to speak to his ability to avoid the pass rush and throw accurately on the run.  Hopefully he excells at it.

@"StickyBun" said: If Case Keenum can play like he did last year in Minnesota, Cousins can certainly take the next step also. What did Keenum do before last year? Cousins has a body of work at least. 

I think the odds are much higher that Case takes a step back and Kirk a step forward this year. 

The one thing Case did do and this is just opinion, he made the oline better. He had an uncanny knack of ducking, sidestepping or just plain out running the rushers. I have to wonder how much of the olines improvement last season was because of him. Now on the other side. I didn't like his arm. I would watch his receivers make plays in spite of him. I would ask why are these guys always having to leave their feet to go up for the ball. Maybe just me being over critical. Liked Sams arm better. I haven't watched Kirk enough to know if he can match Sam's arm or Case's exscapability. I do believe Kirk could be enough of both to be real successful here.
I also liked the fun generated by Case and the guys last year. They had some real chemistry going. I don't think Kirk will be fun. He seems more like Sam personality wise. Cerebral and well...boring.

3rd most game winning drives since 2015...And he's not a finisher?

Vikings will need to go 16-0 and win the Superbowl this year for the Cousins signing to be worth it to them is how some feel. 

@"StickyBun" said: Vikings will need to go 16-0 and win the Superbowl this year for the Cousins signing to be worth it to them is how some feel. 

Don't forget setting a new record for season passer rating.

@"StickyBun" said: Vikings will need to go 16-0 and win the Superbowl this year for the Cousins signing to be worth it to them is how some feel. 

I think a repeat of last year would be good enough for me.  Great season, no give aways.  Just adding a better QB doesnt automatically fix any problems the Vikes had. Those last 6 quarters made things pretty clear.

Only one team wins it all.  The ball is oblong and takes some funny bounces. Having the best team is no gurantee of winning.  Add in injuries, play calling and luck, the playoffs become anyone’s game.  And dont forget a few of those other teams got better also.  Eagles, Saints and Rams are both expected to be back and better.  Dont count Erin Rodgers out yet.

Thinking SB win or its a bust season sets you up for unrealistic expectations.  Im hoping they get homefield advantage.  The rest is up to the football gods.