Vikings draft class figures to need time before they become contributors

The Vikings’ Class of 2018 might not be showered with post-draft plaudits, and its ultimate success could hinge on the ability of Mike Zimmer’s coaching staff to coax production out of young players.
That’s been the approach the Vikings have taken since Zimmer and Spielman started working together in 2014, though, and the team’s decisionmakers are comfortable enough with it to continue on course and let the results come over time — like they eventually did with defensive end Danielle Hunter, a third-round pick in 2015.

As deep as this draft was at interior OLine, he dropped the ball again in thinking he could wait until our second pick to select a starter. I like O'Niel a lot and I'm excited on what he has the potential to develop into. However, we still don't have a replacement for Berger because we didn't draft a tackle that is ready to start to move Remmers inside, or draft a guard to leave Remmers where he's at. 

I think any of these guys have a shot to contribute right away.

I think Zim can coach the hell out of guys that have a natural ability to play their position the way Zim wants it played. He doesnt have to reinvent players to get results; he can work with guys that "fit" as well, or even better, than ultra talented guys that dont.

I understand guys will need time to develop. I also know this team wont hold back anyone who can contribute at a higher level. We might not be too excited about things on paper now, but who knows what the 53 man roster will end up looking like after Camp and Preseason. 

One of the most important aspects of this make or break for players is how they "fit." How natural are they at what they are asked to do and how much they improve. We have little idea of how anyone does until OTAs and camp. I think anyone who convinces Zim that they can play has a shot to be more than just depth on a stacked roster...

Im excited to see where the roster cracks through preseason. I get why expectations are what they are, but I also feel like there certainly will be surprises. We cant measure how bad a guy wants it and how willing he is to get after it...

Who here thought Elflein would be a day one starter?

@"Watcher" said: Who here thought Elflein would be a day one starter?

Elflein was one of the top Centers in the country. Many scouts had him as a 2nd round pick so he was definitely a good value for us in the third and not a surprise that he won the starting Center position vs. Easton. O'Neill definitely needs time to build up his strength as he continues to transition from TE to OT. Can we really afford putting him at RT to protect Cousins? Hopefully he proves me wrong, but I have serious doubts he will be ready
to handle the responsibility this year which is why I have been upset with Spielman for not adding another guard
with our 4th that was ready to replace Berger and leave Remmers at RT until O'Neill is ready. Crosby was available
after he traded down to the 4th and would have challenged for a starting spot at Guard or Tackle this year and at the very least would have added badly needed depth.  

I think they HAVE to go outside and look at FA O linemen.  If they dont then Rick is the guy in the bubble.

@"Poiple" said: I think they HAVE to go outside and look at FA O linemen.  If they dont then Rick is the guy in the bubble.

Sure he is...Agimg veteran past his prime retires, the team has like 6 guys on the Roster to replace him. GM clearly hasn't done his job.

Look around the League. How many teams are there that get good to really good RG play from lower level picks or UDFAs. The answer is a ton. Look at Easton. He wasn't drafted,.IIRC. 

Would it have been nice to snag one of the guys in the first? Of course. Draft didn't fall that way. But let's not act like there aren't plenty of guys with upside competing to win that spot.

Competition. Not handing the job to a shiny new pick. It's unsettling to fans who want the certainty of knowing who every starter is, but I'm sure it's music to the Coaching Staff's ears.
 

Aging guy past his prime is still the best at the job.   What does that say about his replacments?   I winder why its tough for fans to accept that it isnt the number of guys lined up for the job but it is instead HOW GOOD ARE THEY?
By all measures and reasoning the Vikings line, and therefore the lineman who comprise it, are not an elite unit.  Wishing doesnt change it. 

@"Poiple" said: Aging guy past his prime is still the best at the job.   What does that say about his replacments?   I winder why its tough for fans to accept that it isnt the number of guys lined up for the job but it is instead HOW GOOD ARE THEY? By all measures and reasoning the Vikings line, and therefore the lineman who comprise it, are not an elite unit.  Wishing doesnt change it. 

Who says Berger would beat everyone out and keep the job? 

You deal in nothing but absolutes. That way you don't ever have to respond to specific rebuttals to your opinions. You can just say 

Very little for me and I think most on here to respect about what you say when y throws something out there and get very detailed responses with contrary opinions and your stock response is something like Your crazy is you think or You live in a fantasy world, etc.

Let's try a case study to prove my point:the Eagles starting Center was drafted in the 6th Round. Their RG was taken in the 3rd, by another team! Their backup LT, who plays more than the Starter who's always hurt (and was an UDFA) came in the 5th.

So you think all these guys in play for RG aren't any good because you've never heard of them. Did you know who Brandon Brooks was when he got drafted? Or Jason Kelce? Or Vaitai? Or even Jason Peters? 

That's just one team. The entire League is chock full of guys you never heard of before they got drafted or signed after the draft.

Your assertion that none of the Vikings in-house options are any good seems rooted in your not knowing any of them or not believing Minnesota can develop any of them.

My assertion is that every freaking team minus the Cowboys has startes nobody heard of and guys they developed. And Minnesota has already developed Easton and Sirles. Plus the potential of the 2nd Round pick possibly being I the mix.

I'm sure your response will be If you think one of these guys will develop your crazy. Or another of your absolutist responses. And that's a shame. Cuz only Sith Lords deal in Absolutes.

Sith Lords?  lol

Speaking in absolutes?  you got the wrong guy.  I am a analyst nature and by trade. I naturally tend to gather data and chew on it and guess at a logical outcome. Its guesstimating. Not much of it is absolute.

Take a look at T Bros post above me.  I also consider that the Vikings themselves wanted to keep Berger.  I was never a big fan of Berger and didnt consider him an elite lineman.  Maybe you do.  But if the Vikings wanted him to stick around that badly it doesnt say much for the guys behind him does it. 

By most measures the Vikings do not have elite offensive lineman.  I dont know why this is so hard for fans to hear.   It doesnt mean they wont have them someday.  But it certainly does not seem to be a priority.  How can it when it has been a problem since TJack was running for his life every down while the fans screamed how crappy he was.  Do you remember how beat to hell Favre was?  How can it be a priority when they select a #3-4 CB instead of a starting lineman in the first round especially when they need 2-3 at a minimum just to remain a slightly below average bunch? 

I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program.  They have seen him every day.  

So it might be a line of:

Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers. 

Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position. 

I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.

The performance drop-off when either Elflien or Easton went out of the starting lineup was noticeable.
Sliding Remmers around did not produce a better result, but with Hill at RT the OL was passably good, until they played Philly's DL.
I think many of Us saw that performance drop-off, and were pounding the table for more ham to shore up the middle or even boost it (Hernandez).

On paper, the OL looks as strong as it has to me in many, many years.  I think O'Neill plays a fair amount First Year because he is a bit of a physical freak, like Danielle Hunter.  O'Neill is blessed where Reiff is not, and vice versa.  They compliment each other pretty well.

I'm expecting Hughes to play a lot of snaps, also, and be a part of a regular rotation week to week.  

In fact, this hand-wringing about our draftees not being ready enough is ill-founded.  I don't see why Jayln Holmes can't be used in a similar fashion to Hunter in sub-packages.  He MAY get Jaleel Johnsoned and ride a lot of pine, but I think his length, strength and pursuit speed will get him on the field part-time as well.

That brings us to our new Move TE, Tyler Conklin.  Cousins and Conklin are gonna connect for a few dozen passes this year.  I don't know how many, but his ball skills, and movement are similar to Goedert, and I think he projects as a regular target when Defenses are keying a little too much on Dalvin Cook.

True developmental guys litter the remainder of the draft.  The UDFA WR group has some terrific athleticism and raw talent in Foreman, Robertson, Weineke, and Badet.
Aruna is a physical beast with no clue what he is doing yet.  But, he has rare traits, and a terrific attitude.  He's known about football for what? About 5 years now?

@"twgerber" said: I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program.  They have seen him every day.  

So it might be a line of:

Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers. 

Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position. 

I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.

Pretty logical and I do think Isadora could be a surprise starter at RG.
I also like Aviante Collins and the best case would be that he impresses at RT. Rashod Hill is smart and versatile but didn't handle fast pass rushers very well; Collins is very athletic and could be an upgrade.
Two years from now, if our starting OTs were O'Neill and Collins, we could have outstanding pass protectors bookending the line...
I still don't think the Vikings wanted to draft a G/C in the first round. If they are honest about the plan to move Remmers inside, they need a RT. So after McGlinchey and Miller were picked, who was left at OT but Connor Williams?
If Remmers does move to G, does anyone else think he could be this year's Alex Boone - last year's free agent signing, but asked to take a pay cut to stay as a backup?
One still-available UFA offensive linemen I wonder about is Greg Robinson. Good grief, what went wrong? Any chance Vikings would let him try to compete at RT??

@"Jor-El" said:

@"twgerber" said: I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program.  They have seen him every day.  

So it might be a line of:

Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers. 

Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position. 

I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.

Pretty logical and I do think Isadora could be a surprise starter at RG.
I also like Aviante Collins and the best case would be that he impresses at RT. Rashod Hill is smart and versatile but didn't handle fast pass rushers very well; Collins is very athletic and could be an upgrade.
Two years from now, if our starting OTs were O'Neill and Collins, we could have outstanding pass protectors bookending the line...
I still don't think the Vikings wanted to draft a G/C in the first round. If they are honest about the plan to move Remmers inside, they need a RT. So after McGlinchey and Miller were picked, who was left at OT but Connor Williams?
If Remmers does move to G, does anyone else think he could be this year's Alex Boone - last year's free agent signing, but asked to take a pay cut to stay as a backup?
One still-available UFA offensive linemen I wonder about is Greg Robinson. Good grief, what went wrong? Any chance Vikings would let him try to compete at RT??

Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

@"minny65" said: Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

You are right of course about continuity.  I hope they do step it up.  If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance.  The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already.  I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.

@"Poiple" said:

@"minny65" said: Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

You are right of course about continuity.  I hope they do step it up.  If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance.  The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already.  I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.

@"minny65" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"minny65" said: Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

You are right of course about continuity.  I hope they do step it up.  If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance.  The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already.  I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.

For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both.  For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.  

Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO.  Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc.  Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them.  So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.

The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win.  I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile.  Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs.  The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"minny65" said: Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

You are right of course about continuity.  I hope they do step it up.  If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance.  The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already.  I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.

For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both.  For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.  

Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO.  Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc.  Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them.  So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.

The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win.  I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile.  Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs.  The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.  

we have had poor communication on the right side of our line for quite a while,  not saying it was Berger,  but hopefully they can get that fixed and soon.

@"minny65" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"minny65" said: Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year.  The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game.  Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role. 

We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.  

We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil. 

We have a talented and deep roster.  No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all.  Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss.  But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber.  So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT.  Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT.  Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.   

After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG.  That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.   

You are right of course about continuity.  I hope they do step it up.  If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance.  The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already.  I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.

For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both.  For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.  

Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO.  Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc.  Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them.  So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.

The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win.  I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile.  Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs.  The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.  

we have had poor communication on the right side of our line for quite a while,  not saying it was Berger,  but hopefully they can get that fixed and soon.

A lot of poor pick-ups/communication between Remmers and the TE's as well.  Then saw it with Hill in the playoffs with both G and TE's.  I thought Remmers communication improved as the year went on and I am all for keeping him at RT with another year to improve in that area along with the TE's and RG's - it's on them as well.