The Pick That Makes You Put Fist To Wall

(With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

good point. Every time Rhodes got dinged and had to come out for a play, we are afraid we are going to hear the words questionable to return. We have been extremely lucky so far.

The team definitely needs o-line help, but CB is a need too. I was going to be fine with a defensive pick the team thought would help them, and CB just happened to be it.
Before the draft, I would have been happy with in order; J. Alexander, Hughes, Jackson, or Oliver. 

As he won't be slotted to be CB1, I dont care about Hughes size. He is agressive and has play-making abilities that not too many of our current DBs have. He will contribute to this team.

There are more lineman available that can help our team than there are CBs at this point. Corbett or Tyrell Crosby are a couple of guys I'm looking to.

No drywall repairs this morning. No problem at all with MIke Hughes among the corners. He's a physical, playmaking corner with great ball and return chops. His character issues have been signed off on by all his coaches, meaning nothing to see there. 

I'm sure Hughes will be a great player eventually. My problem is that we used a 1st round pick on a position that just won't contribute much in 2018. Even Spielman called him a "developmental" corner. So there were no developmental corners on day two of the draft you could target while giving our OL a much needed kick in the ass?

No I'm sorry, spending a 1st rounder on a dime back, developmental corner just doesn't compute for me. Now in our secondary we have four 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder, while the unit charged with empowering Kirk Cousins and Dalvin Cook has a vacant spot inside and a weakness on the right. 

Keep that in mind as we endure 30 more selections and watch players like Hernandez and Williams and Corbett and Daniels go off the board...

 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

@"NorseGods" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

Any chance they take the Holton kid later on - take two CBs this draft to ensure depth...develop Holton and Hughes for year when we lose Newman and jettison Mckenzie?  For me, I wouldn't mind if we went CB, OL, CB/DT, OL, WR, RB...

@"BarrNone55" said: For me, it's any CB tonight...

Well which wall took it on the chin last night? I'm F'n smgdfh about this pick! Like I said in another thread I rarely get too alarmed regarding the draft...this was not a pick of need and no way was he BPOTB! He won't start day 1 and Sherrels will still return punts hopefully. So we have a 1st rd K returner...Patterson was that and a lot more! I wasn't posting yesterday but the only other picks I'd have issues with...not joking were RB QB K P WR in 1st rd....fist in wall picks!

@"ATXVIKE" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: For me, it's any CB tonight...

Well which wall took it on the chin last night? I'm F'n smgdfh about this pick! Like I said in another thread I rarely get too alarmed regarding the draft...this was not a pick of need and no way was he BPOTB! He won't start day 1 and Sherrels will still return punts hopefully. So we have a 1st rd K returner...Patterson was that and a lot more! I wasn't posting yesterday but the only other picks I'd have issues with...not joking were RB QB K P WR in 1st rd....fist in wall picks!

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

Exactly.  The off season moves pointed directly to corner being a need and a position where they would have good choices at the end of the 1st.  There is zero depth.  I still expect that they will bring back Newman if he wants which would really strengthen the group.

I am not sure Hernandez fits because he basically is just a mauling left guard.  Daniels is intriguing but only 20 years old and probably is going to struggle playing against older stronger players his first year or two.

I like Braden Smith, Wyatt Teller, and Colby Gossett as interior linemen to draft.

@"ATXVIKE" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: For me, it's any CB tonight...

Well which wall took it on the chin last night? I'm F'n smgdfh about this pick! Like I said in another thread I rarely get too alarmed regarding the draft...this was not a pick of need and no way was he BPOTB! He won't start day 1 and Sherrels will still return punts hopefully. So we have a 1st rd K returner...Patterson was that and a lot more! I wasn't posting yesterday but the only other picks I'd have issues with...not joking were RB QB K P WR in 1st rd....fist in wall picks!

@"ATXVIKE" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

Exactly.  The off season moves pointed directly to corner being a need and a position where they would have good choices at the end of the 1st.  There is zero depth.  I still expect that they will bring back Newman if he wants which would really strengthen the group.

I am not sure Hernandez fits because he basically is just a mauling left guard.  Daniels is intriguing but only 20 years old and probably is going to struggle playing against older stronger players his first year or two.

I like Braden Smith, Wyatt Teller, and Colby Gossett as interior linemen to draft.

That's where someone (CB on the roster) puts on their big boy pants and earns their salary as a pro NFL player. What drop off does the #1 D in the league see if we lose a cb? What drop off do we see as our OL is depleted and inept and has a $84 mill QB with no protection? My gripe is we could have traded back...it could have been done earlier and likely the right deal could have been done. Who knows 5 picks later we still get Hughs! Why is the #1 D in the NFL still getting built?

@"ATXVIKE" said:

That's where someone (CB on the roster) puts on their big boy pants and earns their salary as a pro NFL player. What drop off does the #1 D in the league see if we lose a cb? What drop off do we see as our OL is depleted and inept and has a $84 mill QB with no protection? My gripe is we could have traded back...it could have been done earlier and likely the right deal could have been done. Who knows 5 picks later we still get Hughs! Why is the #1 D in the NFL still getting built?

Your gripe is the Vikings could have traded back?  Looking at what transpired after our pick, it seems the Ravens wanted to trade up for Lamar Jackson...  if that was our only offer...  would you have rather drafted a good CB prospect at #30 or drop back 22 spots into the late 2nd round and get a late 4th round pick and a future 2nd? 
Under that scenario, it'd be nice to have an extra 2nd next year, but we may have missed out completely on a good CB or one of the OL you personally want.  And before you say, well we could package some picks to move up into the early 2nd for an OL, we'd need a willing trade partner to do that.  Easier said than done.

Huh.

After reading a bunch of reactions to last night's pick, I was assured that the sky was falling, it was the end of days, and that the Gatekeeper and the Keymaster had brought Zuul into our dimension.

All I see is a little drizzle, which in Western Washington is what we call "most of our weather".

@"Zanary" said: Huh.

After reading a bunch of reactions to last night's pick, I was assured that the sky was falling, it was the end of days, and that the Gatekeeper and the Keymaster had brought Zuul into our dimension.

All I see is a little drizzle, which in Western Washington is what we call "most of our weather".

My girlfriends a dog...;)

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Zanary" said: Huh.

After reading a bunch of reactions to last night's pick, I was assured that the sky was falling, it was the end of days, and that the Gatekeeper and the Keymaster had brought Zuul into our dimension.

All I see is a little drizzle, which in Western Washington is what we call "most of our weather".

My girlfriends a dog...;)

@"ATXVIKE" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

Exactly.  The off season moves pointed directly to corner being a need and a position where they would have good choices at the end of the 1st.  There is zero depth.  I still expect that they will bring back Newman if he wants which would really strengthen the group.

I am not sure Hernandez fits because he basically is just a mauling left guard.  Daniels is intriguing but only 20 years old and probably is going to struggle playing against older stronger players his first year or two.

I like Braden Smith, Wyatt Teller, and Colby Gossett as interior linemen to draft.

That's where someone (CB on the roster) puts on their big boy pants and earns their salary as a pro NFL player. What drop off does the #1 D in the league see if we lose a cb? What drop off do we see as our OL is depleted and inept and has a $84 mill QB with no protection? My gripe is we could have traded back...it could have been done earlier and likely the right deal could have been done. Who knows 5 picks later we still get Hughs! Why is the #1 D in the NFL still getting built?

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

Oh, and the O-line isn't depleted. It can be improved upon but the current combination is far from inept. 

This is the biggest thing... we talked last offseason that it would be a two-year process to improve the offensive line to potentially a top unit.  After adding Reiff and Remmers as free agents, drafting Pat Elflein in the 3rd round, and the emergence of Nick Easton...  the unit looks pretty solid as is.  We're entering Year 2 of the offensive line rebuild.  We lost a starting RG to retirement and a little depth, but we have some in-house guys that could emerge as a starter and at least 7 more draft picks to add some young talent.
I don't get the level of angst about not taking an OL with our first round pick.  I might expect it if we went the entire draft and didn't pick a single offensive lineman, but that's not the case...

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"ATXVIKE" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: (With a pencil clinched between my teeth) Struggling to understand valuing a dimeback over a starting interior lineman...how much longer will the NFL even have KR?...oy

I don't think its about valuing a dimeback. Its about valuing CB depth and a potential starting nickle corner and kick returner. I've been preaching it for week, if anything had happened to Rhodes, Waynes, or Mac they would be screwed. You can't let that derail the entire team. If the draft was only a single round they still would be better because a potential line of Reiff - Easton - Elflein - Remmers - Hill would be a better option than having to play Horace Richardson at corner. 

Exactly.  The off season moves pointed directly to corner being a need and a position where they would have good choices at the end of the 1st.  There is zero depth.  I still expect that they will bring back Newman if he wants which would really strengthen the group.

I am not sure Hernandez fits because he basically is just a mauling left guard.  Daniels is intriguing but only 20 years old and probably is going to struggle playing against older stronger players his first year or two.

I like Braden Smith, Wyatt Teller, and Colby Gossett as interior linemen to draft.

That's where someone (CB on the roster) puts on their big boy pants and earns their salary as a pro NFL player. What drop off does the #1 D in the league see if we lose a cb? What drop off do we see as our OL is depleted and inept and has a $84 mill QB with no protection? My gripe is we could have traded back...it could have been done earlier and likely the right deal could have been done. Who knows 5 picks later we still get Hughs! Why is the #1 D in the NFL still getting built?

I can't tell if you're trying to just troll or what. What drop-off would the #1 D see if they lost one of their 3 NFL corners on the roster? A very big one. Sherels isn't considered a CB at the end of the day and Mac was the only one who could play the slot on the roster. Basically, an injury to any of the three starting CB's would have completely derailed the entire season. 

When it comes to trading back, no teams trades into a pick until they know who is available. You trade up with a specific target in mind. As the team trading back you also need to receive an offer that gives you enough value to drop back and lose a 5th year option. If you're going OG the 5th year options is worthless. For a DB its actually incredibly valuable. So getting Hughes five picks later for a 4th would't be worth the lost year of team control. There are a lot more variables in play. 

Oh, and the O-line isn't depleted. It can be improved upon but the current combination is far from inept.