Vikings interest in Goedert at #30 is "genuine"

They've done a lot of work on him the past few weeks. I didn't put him in my Mock 2.0 as a coincidence. I don't think they'd take him at #30 though if Connor Williams or Jaire Alexander are still on the board. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: They've done a lot of work on him the past few weeks. I didn't put him in my Mock 2.0 as a coincidence. I don't think they'd take him at #30 though if Connor Williams or Jaire Alexander are still on the board. 

I have a hard time seeing this one, for reasons I've mentioned before. Just hard to see him having much of an impact early on. Same with corner. How many 1st rounders can one secondary bear? 

Then you consider that our clear and present need is on the OL, and the fact that so much of our money and hopes are invested in the two guys who will line up behind it (cousins and cook), and the fact that we really need to fully transition this line to a ZBS, and the fact that Williams, McGlinchey, Miller, Ragnow, Price, Wynn and Hernandez all seem to represent good fits and good value in the 25 to 35 range....I have to wonder if the TE and CB interest isn't just a smokescreen. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: They've done a lot of work on him the past few weeks. I didn't put him in my Mock 2.0 as a coincidence. I don't think they'd take him at #30 though if Connor Williams or Jaire Alexander are still on the board. 

I have a hard time seeing this one, for reasons I've mentioned before. Just hard to see him having much of an impact early on. Same with corner. How many 1st rounders can one secondary bear? 

Then you consider that our clear and present need is on the OL, and the fact that so much of our money and hopes are invested in the two guys who will line up behind it (cousins and cook), and the fact that we really need to fully transition this line to a ZBS, and the fact that Williams, McGlinchey, Miller, Ragnow, Price, Wynn and Hernandez all seem to represent good fits and good value in the 25 to 35 range....I have to wonder if the TE and CB interest isn't just a smokescreen. 

If Rudolph throws a shoe Week 1 and is gone for the season who gets his targets? Morgan?  Um, no. You don't rely on a blocking-first TE to be that guy.

And let's not forget that BOTH Cousins and Flipper like to have 2 legit Pass Catching TEs.

Yes, Morgan caught a couple of passes last year. So what. That's not even remotely projectible.

Philly used multiple pass threat TE looks against Minnesota a bunch last year. Don't be surprised if Flipper is pounding the table to get the same thing.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: They've done a lot of work on him the past few weeks. I didn't put him in my Mock 2.0 as a coincidence. I don't think they'd take him at #30 though if Connor Williams or Jaire Alexander are still on the board. 

I have a hard time seeing this one, for reasons I've mentioned before. Just hard to see him having much of an impact early on. Same with corner. How many 1st rounders can one secondary bear? 

Then you consider that our clear and present need is on the OL, and the fact that so much of our money and hopes are invested in the two guys who will line up behind it (cousins and cook), and the fact that we really need to fully transition this line to a ZBS, and the fact that Williams, McGlinchey, Miller, Ragnow, Price, Wynn and Hernandez all seem to represent good fits and good value in the 25 to 35 range....I have to wonder if the TE and CB interest isn't just a smokescreen. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

I have a hard time seeing this one, for reasons I've mentioned before. Just hard to see him having much of an impact early on. Same with corner. How many 1st rounders can one secondary bear? 

Then you consider that our clear and present need is on the OL, and the fact that so much of our money and hopes are invested in the two guys who will line up behind it (cousins and cook), and the fact that we really need to fully transition this line to a ZBS, and the fact that Williams, McGlinchey, Miller, Ragnow, Price, Wynn and Hernandez all seem to represent good fits and good value in the 25 to 35 range....I have to wonder if the TE and CB interest isn't just a smokescreen. 

I get it...  historically rookie TEs don't make a big splash.  Rob Gronkowski, Travis Kelce, Jimmy Graham, Greg Olsen, etc. didn't really break out until their 2nd or sometimes 3rd years.  However, Goedert could still provide value to the offense in his rookie year by being another mismatch on the field and making the occasional big play.  The real value will likely be in 2019 when Rudolph is entering his age 30 season with a 7.6 million cap hit and no dead money...
Let's face it... outside of RG (or RT depending on where you think Remmers fits) this team doesn't have any holes.  The Vikings can approach this draft looking to the future by just grabbing the best available players.  I think the draft is deep enough with interior OL that we could wait until our 2nd round pick and get a pretty damn good player to address that spot.  Typically C/OG don't go in the first round unless they are studs.  Most of the C/OGs you listed will go on Day 2.  Happens every year.  Cody Whitehair, Pat Elflein, Ethan Pocic, etc. were all talked up as potential 1st round picks and they all went late 2nd/early 3rd round when the actual draft rolled around.
If there isn't a stud OT prospect that falls to 30, I would argue that adding a guy like Goedert would be a great pick.  It would protect us a bit too if Diggs can't be re-signed.  I just don't want the Vikings to be reaching for a need at #30.

@"FSUVike" said: If Rudolph throws a shoe Week 1 and is gone for the season who gets his targets? Morgan?  Um, no. You don't rely on a blocking-first TE to be that guy.

And let's not forget that BOTH Cousins and Flipper like to have 2 legit Pass Catching TEs.

Yes, Morgan caught a couple of passes last year. So what. That's not even remotely projectible.

Philly used multiple pass threat TE looks against Minnesota a bunch last year. Don't be surprised if Flipper is pounding the table to get the same thing.

I didn't say don't draft one. I said don't draft one in the first round. The guy I like is Chris Herndon from Miami and you can probably get him in the 4th round. Gronk was a 2nd, Kelce a 3rd. Reed a 3rd. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: If Rudolph throws a shoe Week 1 and is gone for the season who gets his targets? Morgan?  Um, no. You don't rely on a blocking-first TE to be that guy.

And let's not forget that BOTH Cousins and Flipper like to have 2 legit Pass Catching TEs.

Yes, Morgan caught a couple of passes last year. So what. That's not even remotely projectible.

Philly used multiple pass threat TE looks against Minnesota a bunch last year. Don't be surprised if Flipper is pounding the table to get the same thing.

I didn't say don't draft one. I said don't draft one in the first round. The guy I like is Chris Herndon from Miami and you can probably get him in the 4th round. Gronk was a 2nd, Kelce a 3rd. Reed a 3rd. 

Lots of good point made above. For me, the two biggest needs are OL and CB. Assuming there is a close call at 30, I would do exactly what Geoff said of RS: look at what we will have to choose from when we pick in the second. 
That said, Goedert and Mo Hurst are pretty tough to pass on, especially Hurst. I'm not sure the dropoff between Goedert and the group behind him is all that great. If he had played in a major conference, it may be a different story. But there is that level of uncertainty with him. The dropoff between Hurst and Taven Bryan is pretty severe.
But taking Hurst or Goedert would likely mean CB in the second and no OL until the third. That may be OK.

There were 8 tight ends who went to the Pro Bowl last year. Not a single one was drafted in the 1st round. 

Excluding last year because it's too early, here are the TEs draft in the 1st round since 2008. Eric Ebron, Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew and Dustin Keller. 

Just sayin...

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: If Rudolph throws a shoe Week 1 and is gone for the season who gets his targets? Morgan?  Um, no. You don't rely on a blocking-first TE to be that guy.

And let's not forget that BOTH Cousins and Flipper like to have 2 legit Pass Catching TEs.

Yes, Morgan caught a couple of passes last year. So what. That's not even remotely projectible.

Philly used multiple pass threat TE looks against Minnesota a bunch last year. Don't be surprised if Flipper is pounding the table to get the same thing.

I didn't say don't draft one. I said don't draft one in the first round. The guy I like is Chris Herndon from Miami and you can probably get him in the 4th round. Gronk was a 2nd, Kelce a 3rd. Reed a 3rd. 

And one more thing, I'm not a huge fan of Goedert. I'm not even sure he's the best TE in the draft. I think he's a little overrated as a 1st rounder. He's got great hands, but this isn't a mismatch deep threat in the way of Gronk or Reed or Kelce IMO. The guy he's compared to most often is Jason Witten, which is great, but even Witten was a 3rd rounder. 

@"minny65" said:

I'm with you on Goedert.  I don't see first round talent.  I think Geisiki is the best of the bunch and I wouldn't take him at 30 either.  Now if either are there with our second rounder I would jump for joy.  We need a Guard at 30 and it is a need with a likely nice supply.  Would love Wynn or Hernandez in that order.  

Mike Gesicki looks like a stork on the football field.  He'll probably be drafted ahead of where he should be because he tested really well at the combine...  but when I watched him, he looks like a tall WR with decent speed that can't block.  I like him late Day 2/early Day 3, but he'll probably be drafted earlier than that.  I wouldn't take him with our 2nd round pick.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"minny65" said:

I'm with you on Goedert.  I don't see first round talent.  I think Geisiki is the best of the bunch and I wouldn't take him at 30 either.  Now if either are there with our second rounder I would jump for joy.  We need a Guard at 30 and it is a need with a likely nice supply.  Would love Wynn or Hernandez in that order.  

Mike Gesicki looks like a stork on the football field.  He'll probably be drafted ahead of where he should be because he tested really well at the combine...  but when I watched him, he looks like a tall WR with decent speed that can't block.  I like him late Day 2/early Day 3, but he'll probably be drafted earlier than that.  I wouldn't take him with our 2nd round pick.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.   Guard may be a bigger need than a pass catching TE but if I understand Geoff, who they select in the first may depend on what will be there in the second.  If the draft is deep with guards of similar value and short on d line or TE then we might see that selected in the first round.

@"Poiple" said: It will be interesting to see how it plays out.   Guard may be a bigger need than a pass catching TE but if I understand Geoff, who they select in the first may depend on what will be there in the second.  If the draft is deep with guards of similar value and short on d line or TE then we might see that selected in the first round.

I wouldn't say it's a deep guard class. I would say it's thick between 20 and 60.

It's all a matter of opinion, but if you reversed that, if you took the best guard available at 30 and the best TE available at 62, I personally think you'd end up with better players. I'm not even convinced that Goedert won't be there at 62. 

you guys arent seeing Goedert clearly.  He is the best TE available in this draft and if he goes to a decent team I think history will bear it out.

as far as where great TEs have historically been drafted... well the TE position is really coming into its own in the last few years and its importance is being re-established.  ask yourself this,  go back in time to those drafts for Witten, Kelce, Gronk others... if those drafts were redone,  do those guys still go in the middle rounds?  no way.   just because a guy is taken in what ever round and they turn out great should not be an indicator that the best talent at that position most likely comes from that round or what ever.  just stick to our boards and take the best football players we can and the team will be fine.... place kicker in the 6th!

however,  little known fact (or at least little advertised fact).... and this should really keep Goedert off our boards completely.... the kid is a fucking cheese head.   yep,  packer fan.   

I still think the best value at TE is Fumagalli early Day 3...

I have Hayden Hurst in my Top 50. 
  
Gesicki is absolutely ridiculous.  I would have to take him w second pick just because.
41+ vertical on a 6'-5" frame with 4.54 speed, and ball skilz???  He's got the highest ceiling ever, or he could get his 243 lb frame crushed.   I really like him, right around #60.

Goedert is much less of a threat offensively than either of these two, IMHO.  I like the Whitten comparison.  I've had him going mid-third-round for months.  

@"kahsmick" said: I have Hayden Hurst in my Top 50.     Gesicki is absolutely ridiculous.  I would have to take him w second pick just because. 41+ vertical on a 6'-5" frame with 4.54 speed, and ball skilz???  He's got the highest ceiling ever, or he could get his 243 lb frame crushed.   I really like him, right around #60.

Goedert is much less of a threat offensively than either of these two, IMHO.  I like the Whitten comparison.  I've had him going mid-third-round for months.  

I don't necessarily agree with you since Gesicki's great combine didn't translate to or from his tape the past two years. Many have made him out to be this freak athlete. While he is big/fast he was used more as a H-back in the Penn offense and has a long ways to go before he is a legitimate threat at the NFL level. All TE's take some time to adapt to the NFL but Gesicki's translation is going to be tough. He isn't overly physical and his change of direction skills aren't as good on film. He is very much like OJ Howard from a year ago in the sense that you start falling in love with the body rather than the player. He has tremendous upside if he puts it together, but is also the riskiest in my opinion. 

Goedert as an offensive threat is between Gesicki and Hurst. He isn't as quick but has the best hands of the three. He also does the best getting seperation up the seam and off inside fades. That should give him some upside right away even in a limited role. The thing with Goedert is that although he played against a lower level of competition he won in almost every way. He also is a bully with the ball in his hands and wants to use his size to run people over. You can't really teach someone to use their size that way. If you balance risk/reward he probably has the best chance to be the best of the three in time. But you would be giving away some short-term upside in Hurst for long-term production. 

At this point I don't know if you really should consider Hurst overrated (some media members) or underrated (a lot of draft sites). He is the most pro ready of the three and can line up anywhere on the field. Right away he is the best route runner and blocker. He likely won't be a great blocker in the NFL but he is willing to use his size to get in the way. His upside is definitely limited though. His talent is somewhat maximized by being an already good route runner and his only upside is adding small nuances to his game. He won't be able to dominate with his physical skills. 

The one least talked about is Ian Thomas. He is a ways away but as a team he can be molded into the player you want/need. Instead of using him in a specific role you can either develop him as an in-line TE or as a moving receiver. That doesn't really fit the Vikings needs but he does have a lot of untapped potential. 

Thomas showed well at the Senior Bowl, and I mocked him to the Vikes in The Second at that time.  He's another guy that doesn't have the college production Goedert does.

I agree with your assessments on Gesicki, and Hurst pretty much across the board.

I think all three can be starters.  I see 5 TEs going by Round 3. (Andrews, Thomas, DG, Hurst, Gesicki)

If The Team waits on TE, like I think they will, I'm gonna keep an eye on Chris Herndon, who was hampered by injury last year, but would be an interesting pick in the third or fourth round.

Then there's a deep sleeper at Weber St, Andrew Voller, I like in The Sixth - A Team Captain and experienced player with upside.

Oh, and Damon Gipson might be a local guy worth a FA look as a conversion project.

Hope springs eternal this year will be the year they finally acquire the elusive Move TE.