Zimmer on Treadwell
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
Wide receiver Laquon Treadwell was the 23rd overall pick of the 2016 NFL Draft. Despite his first-round selection by the Minnesota Vikings, Treadwell has struggled to be productive through his first two seasons in the NFL.
Speaking at the NFL Combine on Thursday, Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer said that Treadwell needs to stop incurring the self-inflicted problems that have plagued him through the first two seasons.
“Laquon needs to get out of his own way,” Zimmer said, via the Daily Norseman. “He’s a guy that works extremely hard, probably doesn’t do things the right way all the time. We’ll be in training camp and he’ll run the stadium steps at night, which is not helping for practice the next day. But he thinks he’s trying to get better; he’s trying to get better. He’s just going about it the wrong way. He needs to get out of his own way and let this thing play out.”
After having just one catch as a rookie, Treadwell caught just 20 passes for 200 yards in year two as Adam Thelien and Stefon Diggs were the primary targets for Case Keenum and Sam Bradford throughout the season. Jarius Wright had 18 catches for 198 yards and two touchdowns despite playing half the snaps on offense (254 to 500) that Treadwell did last season.
The good news is that Treadwell isn’t falling short for lack of effort. Wide receivers moving from college to the pros can run into issues making the transition as well. The Vikings will have to hope that Treadwell can find a better means of channeling his effort in hopes of living up to his status as a former first-round pick.
@"MaroonBells" said:I listen to Zimmer's comments where he's blaming Treadwell for running stairs and not practicing right, but shouldn't the position coach refocus him on the stuff he should be doing to actually get better? It didn't really sound like he was saying Treadwell wasn't listening to his coaches or anything.@"purplefaithful" said:Tough to blame the position coach when you have Diggs and Thielen.@"BarrNone55" said: He doesn't need a mentor, he needs to open his ears and listen to the coaches... Beat me to it...Where's the position coach in all of this? Patterson and Treadwell, both so frustrating.
@"medaille" said:The position coach is only able to so much.@"MaroonBells" said:I listen to Zimmer's comments where he's blaming Treadwell for running stairs and not practicing right, but shouldn't the position coach refocus him on the stuff he should be doing to actually get better? It didn't really sound like he was saying Treadwell wasn't listening to his coaches or anything.@"purplefaithful" said:Tough to blame the position coach when you have Diggs and Thielen.@"BarrNone55" said: He doesn't need a mentor, he needs to open his ears and listen to the coaches... Beat me to it...Where's the position coach in all of this? Patterson and Treadwell, both so frustrating.I bet the receivers coach for the Saints looks like a great coach having Michael Thomas.
@"JimmyinSD" said:he isnt a guy that is going to be running wide open very often, but that doesnt mean he isnt open. a confident accurate QB will get him the ball more often. There were quite a few times that he was open that Case never even looked his way, he would stay locked onto AT or Diggs and ignore the rest of the field... sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt and we need whoever it is to spread the ball around more often. the production to snaps differential is brought up between Treadwell and JW, but JW is often brough in for scripted plays that are designed to get him the ball, he should see better productions per snap. Kind of like 2 years ago when everybody was going gaga for Hunter and thought BRob should be sent to pasture... there is a big difference when you are the full time guy vs the one that makes an appearance once in a while.
First, it's been talked about many times on this board regarding how confident Case was in giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the ball. Second, when given the chance, LT didn't make those catches. His catch rate and catchable catch rate both rank last out of Diggs, Thielen, and Wright. His contested catch rate ranked 3rd, ahead of Thielen. It seemed half the time he was trying more for the pass interference call than actually attempting to catch the ball.
I'm hoping that we can trade him for possibly a CB project whom Zimmer can work his magic on.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:he isnt a guy that is going to be running wide open very often, but that doesnt mean he isnt open. a confident accurate QB will get him the ball more often. There were quite a few times that he was open that Case never even looked his way, he would stay locked onto AT or Diggs and ignore the rest of the field... sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt and we need whoever it is to spread the ball around more often. the production to snaps differential is brought up between Treadwell and JW, but JW is often brough in for scripted plays that are designed to get him the ball, he should see better productions per snap. Kind of like 2 years ago when everybody was going gaga for Hunter and thought BRob should be sent to pasture... there is a big difference when you are the full time guy vs the one that makes an appearance once in a while.
First, it's been talked about many times on this board regarding how confident Case was in giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the ball. Second, when given the chance, LT didn't make those catches. His catch rate and catchable catch rate both rank last out of Diggs, Thielen, and Wright. His contested catch rate ranked 3rd, ahead of Thielen. It seemed half the time he was trying more for the pass interference call than actually attempting to catch the ball.I'm hoping that we can trade him for possibly a CB project whom Zimmer can work his magic on.
I'm in agreement that he lacks the quicks to play in The NFL, and we pretty much all saw that leading up to The Draft. The hope was his leg would get better, and he would get quicker. In retrospect, its a terrible pick - especially in comparison to this year's draft where a guy like LT is a 4-5th round guy, at best.The year he was drafted was The Worst Draft for WRs I've ever seen, and it was also THE position of (alleged) glaring need for the team. They should have traded down, and drafted a couple of developable olinemen.
I still like his effort and blocking, and he does have good hands, but he is easy to cover, and we don't have a QB who delivers lasers to the back shoulder like an Aaron Rogers.
@"kahsmick" said:@"SFVikingFan" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:he isnt a guy that is going to be running wide open very often, but that doesnt mean he isnt open. a confident accurate QB will get him the ball more often. There were quite a few times that he was open that Case never even looked his way, he would stay locked onto AT or Diggs and ignore the rest of the field... sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt and we need whoever it is to spread the ball around more often. the production to snaps differential is brought up between Treadwell and JW, but JW is often brough in for scripted plays that are designed to get him the ball, he should see better productions per snap. Kind of like 2 years ago when everybody was going gaga for Hunter and thought BRob should be sent to pasture... there is a big difference when you are the full time guy vs the one that makes an appearance once in a while.
First, it's been talked about many times on this board regarding how confident Case was in giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the ball. Second, when given the chance, LT didn't make those catches. His catch rate and catchable catch rate both rank last out of Diggs, Thielen, and Wright. His contested catch rate ranked 3rd, ahead of Thielen. It seemed half the time he was trying more for the pass interference call than actually attempting to catch the ball.I'm hoping that we can trade him for possibly a CB project whom Zimmer can work his magic on.
I'm in agreement that he lacks the quicks to play in The NFL, and we pretty much all saw that leading up to The Draft. The hope was his leg would get better, and he would get quicker. In retrospect, its a terrible pick - especially in comparison to this year's draft where a guy like LT is a 4-5th round guy, at best.The year he was drafted was The Worst Draft for WRs I've ever seen, and it was also THE position of (alleged) glaring need for the team. They should have traded down, and drafted a couple of developable olinemen.
I still like his effort and blocking, and he does have good hands, but he is easy to cover, and we don't have a QB
who delivers lasers to the back shoulder like an Aaron Rogers.
fixed it for ya! B)but I do think a better armed QB that is willing to throw receivers open in tight spaces would be able to utilize Treadwell better than Case was able to last year.
@"MaroonBells" said:and a new position coach...@"purplefaithful" said:Tough to blame the position coach when you have Diggs and Thielen.@"BarrNone55" said: He doesn't need a mentor, he needs to open his ears and listen to the coaches... Beat me to it...Where's the position coach in all of this? Patterson and Treadwell, both so frustrating.
If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention.
@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention.I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.But at some point throwing to covered Treadwell is going to have to feel like a better option to whichever QB than throwing to a covered AT, Diggs, or Rudolph.
@"NodakViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.But at some point throwing to covered Treadwell is going to have to feel like a better option to whichever QB than throwing to a covered AT, Diggs, or Rudolph.
I used to make the same arguments about throwing to Rudolph. Just because they aren't blazers running wide open down the field doesn't mean they aren't viable targets.
@"NodakViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.But at some point throwing to covered Treadwell is going to have to feel like a better option to whichever QB than throwing to a covered AT, Diggs, or Rudolph.
That's an excellent point. You'd think there'd be more instances of the QB getting to Treadwell as his 4th read and firing it in there on time rather than bailing the pocket and trying to making a play with a more traditional pocket passer.
@"JimmyinSD" said:Bradford: 71.6% Keenum: 67.6%@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.The QBs aren’t the problem.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.But at some point throwing to covered Treadwell is going to have to feel like a better option to whichever QB than throwing to a covered AT, Diggs, or Rudolph.
I used to make the same arguments about throwing to Rudolph. Just because they aren't blazers running wide open down the field doesn't mean they aren't viable targets.I agree I'm just trying to give perspective, Rudolph at that point was about the only viable receiving target. I haven't given up on Treadwell I think he just has to keep working and capitalize on the limited chances he gets to earn the trust of the QB and coaches.
@"medaille" said:@"NodakViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.But at some point throwing to covered Treadwell is going to have to feel like a better option to whichever QB than throwing to a covered AT, Diggs, or Rudolph.
That's an excellent point. You'd think there'd be more instances of the QB getting to Treadwell as his 4th read and firing it in there on time rather than bailing the pocket and trying to making a play with a more traditional pocket passer.I'm not convinced Case ever made it that far in his progressions(most QB rarely do) by that time they are checking down to the TE or RB. That's kind of my point he looks to AT, then Diggs, if both are covered he probably going to give a quick look at Treadwell at best or Rudolph and either throw it to the guy he trusts the most or check it down. Treadwell isn't near the top of the list of guys he has faith to force a ball into -at least not yet so he has to keep getting better and capitalize on his chance when it comes.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Bradford: 71.6% Keenum: 67.6%@"NodakViking" said: If you are a QB why would you throw to a mostly covered Treadwell when you can throw to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, Cook/McKinnon. Likelihood is not only is he a 4th or 5th read but he will get few chances to earn the trust needed to elevate above those guys in the pecking order. He's going to have to make a big play/impression with one of his few opportunities to get extra attention. I would argue that by nfl standards he wasnt covered as often as some want to make him sound. just because there is a man there doesnt mean hes covered. with Treadwells catch radius and body size any defender on his back is out of the play on routes coming back to the QB or cutting inside. if the QBs that threw to Carter considered him covered with what Treadwell is seeing then CC would be a footnote in the league, not HOF. get an accurate, confident QB and see how much better our offense will look when the QB uses all of it.The QBs aren’t the problem.
I get it you don't like the kid, but he barely saw the field with Bradford and case locked onto Diggs and Theilen so bad he wasn't going to see many other targets.you are just pissed about his draft position even though it's pretty common for recievers to take a few years to really come in to their own. It's not his fault he was taken in the first. He still has some damn good physical attributes that are worth trying to develop.
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