The D, Is Anyone Concerned?

@"MaroonBells" said: Not against Philly. Zimmer admitted he made some mistakes in this game and you can bet he'll get that cleaned up. And a re-charged Vikings defense against Nick Foles should be (may not be, but SHOULD be) a laugher. 

But I'm way more concerned about the Patriots than I was before. 

My biggest concern was the player who was blown sideways on the blocked punt

The lack of pass rush has a lot to do with Brees and Kamara/Ingram. Brees gets the ball out as quick as anyone. Even when he doesn't he has a really good feel for the pocket and makes very subtle movements to buy himself enough time to get the ball out. To really give him problems you need to get pressure up the middle and force him to a single side of the field. Kamara has also been his best friend since you can tell D-line don't want to over pursue and get burned. In the first half MN did a very good job of keeping Brees in the pocket and forcing him to throw through traffic. Even when there wasn't a pass rush the D-lineman were getting their hands up in the passing lanes (think Everson deflection). 

Midway through the 2nd quarter and throughout the 2nd half the Saints started moving Brees and running a lot more misdirection. The one weakness of the Vikings defense is that they can get a little too aggressive at times and allow big gains out the back door. New Orleans play called towards that. They also exposed Mac on Ted Ginn a number of times. It isn't that Mac can't cover Ginn in man-to-man coverage, he just was giving him way to much cushion. 

I wouldn't worry about the defense much moving forward since they still pounded the Saints on 3rd down and likely learned to not exert all of their energy early in the game. That is a common problem when you play pumped up at home though. 

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"kmillard" said: this has been a trend for over a month now. Offense has reeled in to conservative levels, no pass rush. No need to hide anything next week. They are going to have to do more than play vanilla to win on sunday.

Offense was not vanilla for the 1st half and opened it up.  Yes, the second half was very conservative (or, better said, they did not execute as well)

I think people expect too much when they say #1 defense or one of the best defenses.  Fans start to think that they should stop EVERYTHING and win every down.  That's not going to happen against excellent offenses and/or elite quarterbacks, especially in the playoffs.  Brees only took 20 sacks for the season because he's good at getting the ball out quickly.  He's one of the best passers in history so when it comes to making plays when it matters he's going to do better than most.  We should just hope that they limit the opposing offense, prevent big plays and keep their scoring low... and also that the Vikings offense doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

At the very least we can be happy they didn't give up 42 points and 545 yards like the Jags #2 defense... 300 more passing yards than their average. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Not against Philly. Zimmer admitted he made some mistakes in this game and you can bet he'll get that cleaned up. And a re-charged Vikings defense against Nick Foles should be (may not be, but SHOULD be) a laugher. 

But I'm way more concerned about the Patriots than I was before. 

Phillys offense isn't a joke.  They have play makers.  Hopefully Rhodes is up for the task on Jefferies.  But their run game is stout and their OL is decent.  There's a reason they're the last one standing. 

@"Tom Moore" said: No.  This is Drew Brees.  The defense bent because the offense let up off the gas pedal and got way too conservative. The defense still allowed only 2 of 9 third down conversions.

The defense is elite, but teams will get their yards in a league where the rules very much favor offense and scoring.  

When you worry about the Viking D, is the days they are not disciplined in stopping the run  - 1st Detroit Game, Carolina.  when that happens, there is trouble

Sacks are nice, but Zimmer knows what he is doing.  We didn't blitz much, but the one I remember got home with Harrison and BRob.  Griff got one strip sack as well.  But I think our LBs were much more focused on the RBs in the pass game.  The had to be covered and the means EK and Barr were rather busy. 

I think Philly will be a different story.  I expect us to come after Foles.  Especially if Sendejo is back.  I wouldn't count on that tho, he was knocked out, is that correct?

14 of their 24 points came after we gave them the ball on our end of the field -- the bad INT and the blocked punt.

It was the same recipe as our loss to the Lions at home earlier in the season.

Our D is phenomenal, but not perfect.  If they would have had to drive the length of the field, our D would have had more chances to stop them.

@"greediron" said:

@"Tom Moore" said: No.  This is Drew Brees.  The defense bent because the offense let up off the gas pedal and got way too conservative. The defense still allowed only 2 of 9 third down conversions.

The defense is elite, but teams will get their yards in a league where the rules very much favor offense and scoring.  

When you worry about the Viking D, is the days they are not disciplined in stopping the run  - 1st Detroit Game, Carolina.  when that happens, there is trouble

Yes, the D got tired at the end and still came through with a big stop to hold them to a FG and give the offense a chance.

Sacks are nice, but Zimmer knows what he is doing.  We didn't blitz much, but the one I remember got home with Harrison and BRob.  Griff got one strip sack as well.  But I think our LBs were much more focused on the RBs in the pass game.  The had to be covered and the means EK and Barr were rather busy. 

I think Philly will be a different story.  I expect us to come after Foles.  Especially if Sendejo is back.  I wouldn't count on that tho, he was knocked out, is that correct?

@"Geoff Nichols" said: The lack of pass rush has a lot to do with Brees and Kamara/Ingram. Brees gets the ball out as quick as anyone. Even when he doesn't he has a really good feel for the pocket and makes very subtle movements to buy himself enough time to get the ball out. To really give him problems you need to get pressure up the middle and force him to a single side of the field. Kamara has also been his best friend since you can tell D-line don't want to over pursue and get burned. In the first half MN did a very good job of keeping Brees in the pocket and forcing him to throw through traffic. Even when there wasn't a pass rush the D-lineman were getting their hands up in the passing lanes (think Everson deflection). 

Midway through the 2nd quarter and throughout the 2nd half the Saints started moving Brees and running a lot more misdirection. The one weakness of the Vikings defense is that they can get a little too aggressive at times and allow big gains out the back door. New Orleans play called towards that. They also exposed Mac on Ted Ginn a number of times. It isn't that Mac can't cover Ginn in man-to-man coverage, he just was giving him way to much cushion. 

I wouldn't worry about the defense much moving forward since they still pounded the Saints on 3rd down and likely learned to not exert all of their energy early in the game. That is a common problem when you play pumped up at home though. 

And the misdirection, I can't remember the play exactly, but there was one that really sticks out that our D bit on.  And there was also the missed half back option that would have been a dagger.

@"SmashmouthD" said: 14 of their 24 points came after we gave them the ball on our end of the field -- the bad INT and the blocked punt.

It was the same recipe as our loss to the Lions at home earlier in the season.

Our D is phenomenal, but not perfect.  If they would have had to drive the length of the field, our D would have had more chances to stop them.

@"greediron" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: The lack of pass rush has a lot to do with Brees and Kamara/Ingram. Brees gets the ball out as quick as anyone. Even when he doesn't he has a really good feel for the pocket and makes very subtle movements to buy himself enough time to get the ball out. To really give him problems you need to get pressure up the middle and force him to a single side of the field. Kamara has also been his best friend since you can tell D-line don't want to over pursue and get burned. In the first half MN did a very good job of keeping Brees in the pocket and forcing him to throw through traffic. Even when there wasn't a pass rush the D-lineman were getting their hands up in the passing lanes (think Everson deflection). 

Midway through the 2nd quarter and throughout the 2nd half the Saints started moving Brees and running a lot more misdirection. The one weakness of the Vikings defense is that they can get a little too aggressive at times and allow big gains out the back door. New Orleans play called towards that. They also exposed Mac on Ted Ginn a number of times. It isn't that Mac can't cover Ginn in man-to-man coverage, he just was giving him way to much cushion. 

I wouldn't worry about the defense much moving forward since they still pounded the Saints on 3rd down and likely learned to not exert all of their energy early in the game. That is a common problem when you play pumped up at home though. 

And that is why NO traded Graham for Unger.  Brees needs his lanes to throw as he can't throw over top like bigger QBs.  They were getting killed in the middle and paid a big price to fix that issue.  Funny how Seattle has struggled since trading Unger.

And the misdirection, I can't remember the play exactly, but there was one that really sticks out that our D bit on.  And there was also the missed half back option that would have been a dagger.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Not against Philly. Zimmer admitted he made some mistakes in this game and you can bet he'll get that cleaned up. And a re-charged Vikings defense against Nick Foles should be (may not be, but SHOULD be) a laugher. 

But I'm way more concerned about the Patriots than I was before. 

Phillys offense isn't a joke.  They have play makers.  Hopefully Rhodes is up for the task on Jefferies.  But their run game is stout and their OL is decent.  There's a reason they're the last one standing. 

Yeah, and that reason is on IR.

No game in the NFL is easy on the road, but Philly doesn't belong here with Foles as their QB. I will be very surprised if we lose this game. I like how we match up. Zim will likely sell out to stop Ajayi forcing Foles to beat them. And he'll have to play out of his mind to do that. And with Rhodes limiting Jeffery, I like our chances. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: The lack of pass rush has a lot to do with Brees and Kamara/Ingram. Brees gets the ball out as quick as anyone. Even when he doesn't he has a really good feel for the pocket and makes very subtle movements to buy himself enough time to get the ball out. To really give him problems you need to get pressure up the middle and force him to a single side of the field. Kamara has also been his best friend since you can tell D-line don't want to over pursue and get burned. In the first half MN did a very good job of keeping Brees in the pocket and forcing him to throw through traffic. Even when there wasn't a pass rush the D-lineman were getting their hands up in the passing lanes (think Everson deflection). 

Midway through the 2nd quarter and throughout the 2nd half the Saints started moving Brees and running a lot more misdirection. The one weakness of the Vikings defense is that they can get a little too aggressive at times and allow big gains out the back door. New Orleans play called towards that. They also exposed Mac on Ted Ginn a number of times. It isn't that Mac can't cover Ginn in man-to-man coverage, he just was giving him way to much cushion. 

I wouldn't worry about the defense much moving forward since they still pounded the Saints on 3rd down and likely learned to not exert all of their energy early in the game. That is a common problem when you play pumped up at home though. 

And that is why NO traded Graham for Unger.  Brees needs his lanes to throw as he can't throw over top like bigger QBs.  They were getting killed in the middle and paid a big price to fix that issue.  Funny how Seattle has struggled since trading Unger.

And the misdirection, I can't remember the play exactly, but there was one that really sticks out that our D bit on.  And there was also the missed half back option that would have been a dagger.

The screen to Hill in the 2nd quarter? 

I have zero concerns about the Eagles offense.  I think our defense should keep them under
control if our offense and special teams can minimize mistakes and score a
reasonable number of points.

I am concerned about what would happen if we had to play the
Patriots offense.

I think we went conservative on offense and defense.  I haven’t rewatched the game, but that’s how
it felt.  Maybe it would have been fine
if Keenum and the punt unit didn’t gift them two short fields.  What’s the other option?  Brees is just so good that Zimmer had no
counter?  
I'm hoping for a Jacksonville - Minnesota SB for multiple reasons.

My girlfriend, but after a couple glasses of moscato she's no longer concerned about the D. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Not against Philly. Zimmer admitted he made some mistakes in this game and you can bet he'll get that cleaned up. And a re-charged Vikings defense against Nick Foles should be (may not be, but SHOULD be) a laugher. 

But I'm way more concerned about the Patriots than I was before. 

Phillys offense isn't a joke.  They have play makers.  Hopefully Rhodes is up for the task on Jefferies.  But their run game is stout and their OL is decent.  There's a reason they're the last one standing. 

Yeah, and that reason is on IR.

No game in the NFL is easy on the road, but Philly doesn't belong here with Foles as their QB. I will be very surprised if we lose this game. I like how we match up. Zim will likely sell out to stop Ajayi forcing Foles to beat them. And he'll have to play out of his mind to do that. And with Rhodes limiting Jeffery, I like our chances. 

As weird as it sounds, being knocked out doesn't necessarily indicate the severity of a concussion. Hard to say if he'll recover enough to be ready on Sunday. I'd like to have him out there to help with the run defense, but Harris has been very solid when he's played. Any word on Shamar Stephen or do we need to hope that Jaleel Johnson is finally ready to play some minutes?

@"greediron" said:

@"Tom Moore" said: No.  This is Drew Brees.  The defense bent because the offense let up off the gas pedal and got way too conservative. The defense still allowed only 2 of 9 third down conversions.

The defense is elite, but teams will get their yards in a league where the rules very much favor offense and scoring.  

When you worry about the Viking D, is the days they are not disciplined in stopping the run  - 1st Detroit Game, Carolina.  when that happens, there is trouble

Yes, the D got tired at the end and still came through with a big stop to hold them to a FG and give the offense a chance.

Sacks are nice, but Zimmer knows what he is doing.  We didn't blitz much, but the one I remember got home with Harrison and BRob.  Griff got one strip sack as well.  But I think our LBs were much more focused on the RBs in the pass game.  The had to be covered and the means EK and Barr were rather busy. 

I think Philly will be a different story.  I expect us to come after Foles.  Especially if Sendejo is back.  I wouldn't count on that tho, he was knocked out, is that correct?

Isn't Jaleel Johnson a 3-tech?  Shamar Stephen is the back-up NT.

Since Lindval mostly comes off the field on non-running downs, losing the back-up NT isn't a huge loss.  They'll ask JJohnson to maybe take a few NT snaps, but it won't be too many.

Right?

No Brees. No Kamara. The Eagles' WRs are not as dangerous as the Saints' WRs. The Eagles need to run to have success. The Vikings are very good at taking away the run. When you do that to N.O., you have to deal with Brees. When you do that to Philly, you get Foles. I'm not saying Foles has no chance, but I like our defense against the Eagles' offense.
I don't expect the D or Zimmer to have back-to-back bad games. We should be fine.