Derek Carr is not that impressive anymore.

carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

what happened?  He has just an average OL
in front of him. This is what detractors were worried about coming out of FSU, needs a great pocket to be a great QB

One game "for" the Vikes and he f***in blew it...

Philly has a good DL and Oakland and that highly paid OL has underperformed all year. They blow chunks. 

He's a good, but not elite QB and needs to have help to succeed. They had that last year, but the OL took a step back, key skill players like Cooper and Crabtree struggling, switching the OC from Musgrave to Downing, and the defense's struggles he's got too many factors working against him. Not sure if anything has changed with him in terms of mechanics or decision making, though his struggles tonight were exacerbated by swirling winds, which will making both QBs look even worse tonight.

Interestingly, Carr's stats are very similar to Keenum's:

Carr 319/516 (61.5%), 3,383 YDS, 22 TD, 14 INT, 19 SACK, and 86.0 QBR*
Keenum 304/452 (67.3), 3,358 YDS, 21 TD, 7 INT, 20 SACK, and 98.1 QBR

The big differences Carr having lower accuracy and throwing twice the amount of picks, but otherwise they are surprisingly similar. Carr is doing this with an OL, skill players, and D that are all struggling. Keenum is putting his numbers up in a much more favorable situation. That's not meant as a knock on Keenum, but I was just surprised how similar their numbers were despite them dealing with very different situations.

*That is Carr's QBR through 14 games, it would now be lower after a bad performance against the Eagles. The rest of his stats are up to date.

The NFL is so unpredictable year to year. It surprises me every season.

I'm guessing that transverse process is still bothering him...he missed throws last night that he normally makes with ease...

@"BarrNone55" said: I'm guessing that transverse process is still bothering him...he missed throws last night that he normally makes with ease...

To be fair, his biggest knock coming out of college was his mechanics went out the window when he was preaaured. That looked to be on full display yesterday. But... There were still some throws that just made no sense because of how ugly they were. Throws where the pocket wasn't bad enough to cause an errant pass. I was thinking injury, too.

hes hearing footsteps,  he isnt setting up when the time is there and his throws are showing it.   

@"eckman" said: carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

It's not that Carr and Keenum are "bad" QBs. They're not. They're just among the majority of QBs in the NFL whose performance rises and falls based on situation. And I would say Keenum more so than Carr. 

@"Tyr" said: He's a good, but not elite QB and needs to have help to succeed. They had that last year, but the OL took a step back, key skill players like Cooper and Crabtree struggling, switching the OC from Musgrave to Downing, and the defense's struggles he's got too many factors working against him. Not sure if anything has changed with him in terms of mechanics or decision making, though his struggles tonight were exacerbated by swirling winds, which will making both QBs look even worse tonight.

Interestingly, Carr's stats are very similar to Keenum's:

Carr 319/516 (61.5%), 3,383 YDS, 22 TD, 14 INT, 19 SACK, and 86.0 QBR*
Keenum 304/452 (67.3), 3,358 YDS, 21 TD, 7 INT, 20 SACK, and 98.1 QBR

The big differences Carr having lower accuracy and throwing twice the amount of picks, but otherwise they are surprisingly similar. Carr is doing this with an OL, skill players, and D that are all struggling. Keenum is putting his numbers up in a much more favorable situation. That's not meant as a knock on Keenum, but I was just surprised how similar their numbers were despite them dealing with very different situations.

*That is Carr's QBR through 14 games, it would now be lower after a bad performance against the Eagles. The rest of his stats are up to date.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"eckman" said: carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

I'd be careful about that. There was a thread this summer about how awesome Derek Carr was. My only response was "yeah, he is 'now'." What will he be like next year? The year after? What happens when his protection wanes? Or he loses one of those receivers? Because he's not yet the kind of QB who can transcend supporting cast. And neither is Case Keenum. We have to be really careful about what we do this offseason.

It's not that Carr and Keenum are "bad" QBs. They're not. They're just among the majority of QBs in the NFL whose performance rises and falls based on situation. And I would say Keenum more so than Carr. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"eckman" said: carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

I'd be careful about that. There was a thread this summer about how awesome Derek Carr was. My only response was "yeah, he is 'now'." What will he be like next year? The year after? What happens when his protection wanes? Or he loses one of those receivers? Because he's not yet the kind of QB who can transcend supporting cast. And neither is Case Keenum. We have to be really careful about what we do this offseason.

It's not that Carr and Keenum are "bad" QBs. They're not. They're just among the majority of QBs in the NFL whose performance rises and falls based on situation. And I would say Keenum more so than Carr. 

He's still dealing with that back injury, so lets not poop in the Derek Carr cornflakes just yet. His offensive line is truly offensive. But look at a guy like Matt Ryan last year to this year: night and day. Carr could be en Fuego in 2018 just as easily. The NFL is so unpredictable. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"eckman" said: carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

I'd be careful about that. There was a thread this summer about how awesome Derek Carr was. My only response was "yeah, he is 'now'." What will he be like next year? The year after? What happens when his protection wanes? Or he loses one of those receivers? Because he's not yet the kind of QB who can transcend supporting cast. And neither is Case Keenum. We have to be really careful about what we do this offseason.

It's not that Carr and Keenum are "bad" QBs. They're not. They're just among the majority of QBs in the NFL whose performance rises and falls based on situation. And I would say Keenum more so than Carr. 

He's still dealing with that back injury, so lets not poop in the Derek Carr cornflakes just yet. His offensive line is truly offensive. But look at a guy like Matt Ryan last year to this year: night and day. Carr could be en Fuego in 2018 just as easily. The NFL is so unpredictable. 

Yes, I agree. That was my point. I think Carr has the pedigree to become a QB who can transcend supporting cast. Probably won't happen for a few years, but he has that kind of talent. And, for the record, I believed pre-injury Teddy Bridgewater did too. Believing that Keenum can get to that point is a little bigger stretch. 

I think the best case scenario for Keenum as a Viking is for the Vikings to realize who he is, and give him as much stability and continuity as possible. Keep the offense the same, keep replenishing that line, get Dalvin back, and Case can have a long, Alex Smith type career. But y'know with a ring or two.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"eckman" said: carr flat out suck this year. i would take keenum over him in a hearbeat.

I'd be careful about that. There was a thread this summer about how awesome Derek Carr was. My only response was "yeah, he is 'now'." What will he be like next year? The year after? What happens when his protection wanes? Or he loses one of those receivers? Because he's not yet the kind of QB who can transcend supporting cast. And neither is Case Keenum. We have to be really careful about what we do this offseason.

It's not that Carr and Keenum are "bad" QBs. They're not. They're just among the majority of QBs in the NFL whose performance rises and falls based on situation. And I would say Keenum more so than Carr. 

He's still dealing with that back injury, so lets not poop in the Derek Carr cornflakes just yet. His offensive line is truly offensive because they switched to a zone block technique this season. But look at a guy like Matt Ryan last year to this year: night and day. Carr could be en Fuego in 2018 just as easily. The NFL is so unpredictable. 

We've already heard how Spielman is an idiot for not signing Osemele to a huge deal and not drafting Carr. 

@"claykenny" said: We've already heard how Spielman is an idiot for not signing Osemele to a huge deal and not drafting Carr. 

Well if we are gonna toss numbers around, & dog on Spielman, my main man T Heinicke made his NFL debut yesterday and didn't miss a throw, 100.0
10 yard avg
no INT's
even a couple yards on the ground
Did have 1 sack, 
that quickly ended the drive &
Aforementioned  debut
 :p 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"claykenny" said: We've already heard how Spielman is an idiot for not signing Osemele to a huge deal and not drafting Carr. 

The one that still sticks under my craw a bit is La'el Collins...

@"minny65" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"claykenny" said: We've already heard how Spielman is an idiot for not signing Osemele to a huge deal and not drafting Carr. 

The one that still sticks under my craw a bit is La'el Collins...

No one drafted Collins - UDFA - who then got to chose which team he would play and he chose the Cowboys.  That sticks under your craw due to Speilman how?