OT: Matt Lauer canned at NBC for inappropriate workplace behavior

@"MaroonBells" said: A woman I worked with but didn't really know very well came into my office once and with a wink and a smile described a particular sexual act. I probably should've gone to HR.

Instead I married her. She's the mother of my kids.  

@"MaroonBells" said: A woman I worked with but didn't really know very well came into my office once and with a wink and a smile described a particular sexual act. I probably should've gone to HR.

Instead I married her. She's the mother of my kids.  

I know some older guys don't understand this. They want to blame the women, that's their first reaction. They also blame 'kids today' and other deflections of what is really going on. Some really stupid things come out of people's mouths with their opinions on this. Especially having a position of power and doing these things, its a toxic work environment on many levels. 

The older guys understand, they just don't care. It's a totally different thing when it's mutual and both are joking around. But when one person feels uncomfortable and powerless, it's an entirely different story. If one person grabs and forces another, that is unacceptable. Money and power is what kept the cycle going for so long. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: A woman I worked with but didn't really know very well came into my office once and with a wink and a smile described a particular sexual act. I probably should've gone to HR.

Instead I married her. She's the mother of my kids.  

With some women, the non-work talk like that is no big deal. Its just goofing around. But to others, its offensive. 

New Franken accuser tells CNN the senator cupped her breastAn Army veteran is the latest to accuse Minnesota Sen. Al Franken of unwanted touching, according a CNN report Thursday morning.
The national news network says that Stephanie Kemplin, 41, of Maineville, Ohio, alleges that Franken groped her in December 2003, while she was deployed in Kuwait, cupping her breast during a photo opportunity.
The CNN report includes a photo of Kemplin posing with Franken, which she said was taken moments after he groped her and she shifted position to get his hand off her breast.

@"Vikergirl" said: The older guys understand, they just don't care. It's a totally different thing when it's mutual and both are joking around. But when one person feels uncomfortable and powerless, it's an entirely different story. If one person grabs and forces another, that is unacceptable. Money and power is what kept the cycle going for so long. 

@"A1Janitor" said: It is irresponsible to discuss women who have used sex as a tool in these situations. 

Innocent until proven guilty ... but in these cases coming out there appears to be legitimate victims. 

I don't get men who treat women this way.  

Are there unwanted advancements and acts,  yes and they should be dealt with,  however how much of this is being reported at such and is really something else?  In the court of public opinion every name that gets dropped right now is going to be destroyed,  regardless of the validity of the claim.

This shit needs to stop,  but we also need to reserve judgement amid a waterfall of allegations.  Yes some are pretty cut and dry like Frankens accusers photographic evidence,  but some also might be something else,  like the NPR dude,  if that was an isolated incident it may very well be an unfortunate accident.

Honestly... I just avoid personal contact as much as possible.  It might make me seem stand-off-ish... or just "cold".  But I can promise you that no one will EVER be able to accuse me of any of this stuff.  And, in my line of work, even an accusation would be enough to end my career.

@"Clanzomaelan" said: Crazy. I live my life by a pretty simple set of rules...

1) Be a good human...

2) Don't do things that are destructive to others. Apply destructive to any and all scenarios.

Some of these dudes are pretty high on power. I've met a few in my industry, and have had some pretty challenging situations arise because of people in power forgetting Rules 1 & 2.

Because I'm a Star Wars dork... I've found some folks are Anakin than Luke, and more easily seduced to the Dark Side (ie: being an asshole).

Friends and I discussed this the other day, and we think it could be a watershed moment not only for women's rights, but will cause men's behavior to change in ways you wouldn't expect. I see a LOT fewer men trying to fit into this social construct we've had for centuries. And by that, I mean building a traditional nuclear family at a young age. The underlying common denominator that isn't getting discussed as that ALL these men (and I'd argue most men in general) wanna go around fucking their way through life, but also have a stable family environment. Having their cake and eating it too. 

I think this will force a lot more men to be more transparent in their desires, even in the face of potentially not being able to "settle down" the way they'd like. That'll come much further down the line, but I highly doubt men will "clean up" their behavior and live the straight and narrow: meet one woman, marry her, and treat her and only her as the sexual desire of his life. 

EDIT: I should again add that this in no way excuses any of the assault allegations. I'm talking the harassment stories we've heard of, from married men. Guys who - if they did this to your sister - you'd want to kill them, but they're probably not bad people overall. They're just trying to get some "side" and are doing a crass job of it because they've earned positions of power. Specifically, I read an article about Lauer and one source was quoted explaining his behavior as (paraphrasing), "He's Matt Lauer, so he can't go into the public and have an affair because he'd get caught, so he has to keep it in his own professional work web."

I think the real issue here (well in general) has less to do
with the sexual harassment itself and more to do with it being covered up for
so long to the point that you end up with a situation that could be considered “The
Swamp” that would need to be drained. 
While Trump has typically referred to Washington as the Swamp, I think
the media and Hollywood could very well be lumped into that category given how
much influence they have over people. 
What we are seeing here is just the first part of the draining of the
swamp.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/men-sexual-interest-consent-confuse-study-binghamton-rush-university-chicago-heterosexual-a8079636.html

Some Men Confuse Sexual Interest With Consent, Study FindsEven a woman’s verbal refusal was sometimes not enough

A new study has found that some men confuse sexual interest with consent and assume that previously having sex with a woman implies her consent ever after.
At a time when sexual harassment and assault is dominating the media, a team of researchers set out to determine the prevalence of sexual misconduct in universities as instances of this type of violence remain higher than any other crime amongst college students.
Published in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, the faculty at Binghamton University and Rush University in Chicago, sought to identify a host of situational and dispositional factors that may predict college men's likelihood to engage in sexual misconduct.

@"medaille" said: I think the real issue here (well in general) has less to do with the sexual harassment itself and more to do with it being covered up for so long to the point that you end up with a situation that could be considered “The Swamp” that would need to be drained.  While Trump has typically referred to Washington as the Swamp, I think the media and Hollywood could very well be lumped into that category given how much influence they have over people.  What we are seeing here is just the first part of the draining of the swamp.

@"greediron" said:

@"medaille" said: I think the real issue here (well in general) has less to do with the sexual harassment itself and more to do with it being covered up for so long to the point that you end up with a situation that could be considered “The Swamp” that would need to be drained.  While Trump has typically referred to Washington as the Swamp, I think the media and Hollywood could very well be lumped into that category given how much influence they have over people.  What we are seeing here is just the first part of the draining of the swamp.

Agreed.  Our culture is a swamp.  The amount of porn consumed can't not have an affect on how we treat each other.  Our society has no moral baseline anymore, so people think they can just do what feels right. 

@"medaille" said:

  I don’t believe that watching porn is going to make most guys start to grope women or try to abuse a position of power, just like playing video games doesn't make you want to kill people. 

@"medaille" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"medaille" said: I think the real issue here (well in general) has less to do with the sexual harassment itself and more to do with it being covered up for so long to the point that you end up with a situation that could be considered “The Swamp” that would need to be drained.  While Trump has typically referred to Washington as the Swamp, I think the media and Hollywood could very well be lumped into that category given how much influence they have over people.  What we are seeing here is just the first part of the draining of the swamp.

Agreed.  Our culture is a swamp.  The amount of porn consumed can't not have an affect on how we treat each other.  Our society has no moral baseline anymore, so people think they can just do what feels right. 

I don’t agree with the notion that our culture (defined as
all of us) is a swamp.  I think people are
generally confused with how to act with people intimately.  I think people are
mostly just awkward, because we, as a society, have completely ignored
socialization skills and make people figure it out on their own.  I don’t believe that watching porn is going
to make most guys start to grope women or try to abuse a position of power, just like playing video games doesn't make you want to kill people.  I don’t think that the sexual harassment/assault/etc.
that comes from lack of socialization is the same thing as someone who has a
position of power and is now trying to use that power to force other people to
do their bidding.

I think the swamp is a small group (relative to the size of
our population) that controlled a lot of key political and media positions and
could ensure that neither the law nor the media could affect them as they preyed
upon others.  But that game is over now.  What they used to be able to keep hidden is
no longer going to be able to be kept hidden.

Watch this smug bastard interview O'Reilly

@"pumpf" said: Honestly... I just avoid personal contact as much as possible.  It might make me seem stand-off-ish... or just "cold".  But I can promise you that no one will EVER be able to accuse me of any of this stuff.  And, in my line of work, even an accusation would be enough to end my career.

I think it'd be better to not employ females.  They can't blame you if you're not around them.  At the rate this is going I doubt there will be any males left in entertainment. 

@"greediron" said:

@"medaille" said:

  I don’t believe that watching porn is going to make most guys start to grope women or try to abuse a position of power, just like playing video games doesn't make you want to kill people. 

I completely disagree.  Porn is ultimately unsatisfying, and more to the point, objectifies people.   It dovetails quite well into the abuse culture we are seeing.  Just as video games normalize killing, porn normalizes objectifying people.

@"pumpf" said:

@"medaille" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"medaille" said: I think the real issue here (well in general) has less to do with the sexual harassment itself and more to do with it being covered up for so long to the point that you end up with a situation that could be considered “The Swamp” that would need to be drained.  While Trump has typically referred to Washington as the Swamp, I think the media and Hollywood could very well be lumped into that category given how much influence they have over people.  What we are seeing here is just the first part of the draining of the swamp.

Agreed.  Our culture is a swamp.  The amount of porn consumed can't not have an affect on how we treat each other.  Our society has no moral baseline anymore, so people think they can just do what feels right. 

I don’t agree with the notion that our culture (defined as
all of us) is a swamp.  I think people are
generally confused with how to act with people intimately.  I think people are
mostly just awkward, because we, as a society, have completely ignored
socialization skills and make people figure it out on their own.  I don’t believe that watching porn is going
to make most guys start to grope women or try to abuse a position of power, just like playing video games doesn't make you want to kill people.  I don’t think that the sexual harassment/assault/etc.
that comes from lack of socialization is the same thing as someone who has a
position of power and is now trying to use that power to force other people to
do their bidding.

I think the swamp is a small group (relative to the size of
our population) that controlled a lot of key political and media positions and
could ensure that neither the law nor the media could affect them as they preyed
upon others.  But that game is over now.  What they used to be able to keep hidden is
no longer going to be able to be kept hidden.

Although we agree that it might be a small minority of people comprising "the swamp", there are a number of laws (that govern all of us) that are the result of the moral relativism that Greed was talking about.  I'm not sure it started with gay marriage... but that certainly accelerated things.  Now you've got laws (not suggestions, mind you) that make it legal for boys to compete in girls' events... not to mention be in their locker-rooms- and the schools have to go along with it.  You have schools that- by choice or compulsion- are celebrating (promoting) all kinds of "lifestyles" that are not only  (generally speaking) rejected as wrong/immoral by the majority of the people in our country... but also completely incompatible with science and reason. And all of these things are predicated on the notion that you should do whatever makes you happy.  There are no (established and protected) boundaries any more.  Instead, those things that led to the common good are being mocked and torn down as out-dated and "immoral" (ironic, really, to call it that).  I'm not excusing what any of these folks have done; but it's hard to sit by and listen to certain folks "moralize" about things... when they have supported this downward slide all along.