Aaron Donald or Anthony Barr?

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Vikeking2" said: both guys are gonna earn top 3-5 money at their position for the rest of their career. both are legit star players. 

not sure its even a useful argument unless as usual our fans want to down play how good our own players are and heap praise on any other teams great players. very masochistic of fans. but par for the course

its a fair question considering where both of them are at in their careers and where they were selected.

you say they are comparable... I say not really.  at his current level Barr will retire similarly as Chad Greenway,  he will be known league wide,  he will be adored by Vikings Fans and will be a long time face of this generation of Vikings Defense,  Ring of Honor guy,  but thats where it will end for him in our 4-3 defense IMO.  He doesnt make enough splash plays for him to really get the national recognition. 

Donald could very easily be HOF when his days are done.   but would they both have had the same career trajectories if the teams were reversed?

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Vikeking2" said: both guys are gonna earn top 3-5 money at their position for the rest of their career. both are legit star players. 

not sure its even a useful argument unless as usual our fans want to down play how good our own players are and heap praise on any other teams great players. very masochistic of fans. but par for the course

its a fair question considering where both of them are at in their careers and where they were selected.

you say they are comparable... I say not really.  at his current level Barr will retire similarly as Chad Greenway,  he will be known league wide,  he will be adored by Vikings Fans and will be a long time face of this generation of Vikings Defense,  Ring of Honor guy,  but thats where it will end for him in our 4-3 defense IMO.  He doesnt make enough splash plays for him to really get the national recognition. 

Donald could very easily be HOF when his days are done.   but would they both have had the same career trajectories if the teams were reversed?

That doesn't mean he isn't as good.  Loved Jared Allen, but he wouldn't make it in Zimmer's defense.  Donald might, but I doubt he would have all the splash plays.  Barr is a freak and could take over a game if the defense was designed around him.  But often he makes the unselfish play, taking on a blocker so someone else can have a free run at the QB.  Brian Robison has done the same for years under Zimmer.  Taking on a double team so someone else can get the sack.  It is a team game. 

@"Jor-El" said: I'll play the hindsight game: good grief, yes, we should have taken Aaron Donald - us and all 12 of the teams that passed him in 2014. The presence of Floyd - coming off a modest rookie season - should not have deterred picking him. We run a 4-3, where defensive linemen, not LBs, are the key to our success. DLs also get hurt often, and they often don't work out, regardless of how high they were drafted - which this franchise should know damn well!! IMO the biggest error in drafting and planning player personnel is ASSUMING that some player will "take care of" a certain position and then cross that position off as a need. Vikings have done it often - some good offensive linemen have been passed because someone (like Mike Harris, Phil Loadholt, Matt Kalil...) was assumed to fill the position that an available player would take. Just stupid - if a great player is available, get him, regardless of having some other name penciled in to that spot.

Speaking of Floyd, picking him was very questionable, both in hindsight and at the time. Regardless of whatever he says now say, IMO Spielman was hoping to draft Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins in 2013, but when Floyd slid (a reason to be cautious), he picked him, still got Rhodes, but missed Hopkins and pulled the trade back into round 1 to get Patterson. Still drives me nuts...

I think his hope was Rhodes and Patterson, doesn't matter now but at least we got Rhodes out of those 6 picks.

Hmmm which one is more likely to injure Rodgers :)

Would the Vikings defense be as good if we had Benardrick McKinney playing Barr's role?

I was so hot/cold on Donald pre-draft. I liked what he was as a pass rusher but just couldn't get on-board with the rest of his game. He's clearly rounded himself out and is easily one of the best pass rushers in the game. 

Would I regret taking him now, yes and no. At the time Floyd was a former 1st round pick who showed his high ceiling. Another interior pass rusher was needed, but at what expense? Barr fit the mold of how Zimmer wanted to build this defense. He's quietly been having possibly the best year of his career this season without much recognition and continues to grow.  

Barr won't stuff a stat sheet like Donald will but he does have a vital role in the Vikings defense today and it would be very very different without him. 

Barr is the player who makes the defense. He's a rare athlete who can rush the passer, break up plays in the flats when starting in the A-gap, good in coverage, and at 6'5 with long arms he's able to disrupt passing lanes in the middle of the defense. I agree that his stats aren't what you'd expect them to be and he's been banged up a lot, but he creates disruption and opportunities for other players to capitalize on. He should be a top priority for the Vikings to re-sign.

Donald is a great player and has put up much better stats than Barr, but it would be a much different defense with him instead of Barr. Quick interior pressure would be huge, especially against guys like Rodgers, but we probably wouldn't see the same amount of double and now triple A-gap looks or the overload blitzes that we used heavily last year. A lot would depend if they could find another versatile LB, maybe not one that fills the same role as Barr, but at least one who has similar range and coverage ability, since taking away flats and mid routes over the middle are a big part of our success on D.

So I think where I stand is that Donald is a better, but Barr has a rare combination of traits that Zimmer has used effectively. It is interesting to think about what the D might look like with someone like Benardrick McKinney, Myles Jack, or Khalil Mack in that role. We also found the perfect compliment to Barr in Kendricks, who doesn't seem to get nearly the credit he deserves.

@"Tyr" said: Would the Vikings defense be as good if we had Benardrick McKinney playing Barr's role?

I wanted Donald and would still prefer him.  Love my big uglies. 

Barr is playing well again this year... but what about next year?  He seems to take plays, games or even seasons off and until he doesn't he will not be a ROH guy for me.   He's a good player that makes great plays at times and this year is one of those times.  Last year?  Not so much...  How bad was his play last year, how much has he improved his effort this year?  He is one solo tackle away from matching his total from last year... and we are half way thru this season.  He stepped up his game big time this season and I'm glad.  

@"Bezerker88" said: I wanted Donald and would still prefer him.  Love my big uglies. 

Barr is playing well again this year... but what about next year?  He seems to take plays, games or even seasons off and until he doesn't he will not be a ROH guy for me.   He's a good player that makes great plays at times and this year is one of those times.  Last year?  Not so much...  How bad was his play last year, how much has he improved his effort this year?  He is one solo tackle away from matching his total from last year... and we are half way thru this season.  He stepped up his game big time this season and I'm glad.  

With a due over, knowing how everything has played out, the answer should be Donald, and it really shouldnt be much of a discussion. 

But at the time the selection was made and with the info available, Barr was the better choice.   Floyd had had a solid rookie season playing behind a borderline HoF player. there was every reason to believe he would trend upward and be a top 5-7 type UT for the next 6-8 years. He never was going to be John Randle, Keith Millard, Alan Page or Kevin Williams, but he wouldnt have shamed their legacy. 

OTOH, our line backer corps was the weakest position group on the team (which is saying something) and we didnt have anywhere close to the personnel necessary to either compete with any scheme, let alone run Zimmer’s. The DL already projected to be the strongest part ofnthe defense. They wouldn’t have captured that much marginal improvement by drafting Donald and having him play over Floyd. but there was a lot of improvement to he had by drafting Barr and playing him over whever stiff was out there the previous year.  

and that was the argument I made in 2014 and its still the right argument now. i dont watch college football much so I had no great bias towards either of these players. 

whats funny about this is when Barr was selected most people had no idea who he was and those that claimed to know were pretty vocal about him being a reach.  I dont recall even hearing his name pre draft for us and only a few spoke positively about the selection right afterwards.

@"JimmyinSD" said: whats funny about this is when Barr was selected most people had no idea who he was and those that claimed to know were pretty vocal about him being a reach.  I dont recall even hearing his name pre draft for us and only a few spoke positively about the selection right afterwards.

@"JimmyinSD" said: whats funny about this is when Barr was selected most people had no idea who he was and those that claimed to know were pretty vocal about him being a reach.  I dont recall even hearing his name pre draft for us and only a few spoke positively about the selection right afterwards.

@"JimmyinSD" said: whats funny about this is when Barr was selected most people had no idea who he was and those that claimed to know were pretty vocal about him being a reach.  I dont recall even hearing his name pre draft for us and only a few spoke positively about the selection right afterwards.