OT: Volvo Phasing-Out Internal Combustion Engine

Well we are more advanced and we aren't. We certainly weren't powering consumer grade lawn mowers on a large scale in the 80's on batteries, or chainsaws and even a battery drill was good for about an hour. So we have, but we are limited and there are a number of factors working against advancing. You mentioned things like computers and cell phones advancing at a far greater speed and I'd say that without the batteries advancing many of those things wouldn't either. Especially items like cell phones and laptops etc. In fact mobile devices (including transportation) are the very things that push the boundaries of battery tech to where we are today. Grid storage grade batteries are already pretty much there as far as what is needed. It is compact batteries that are the quandry. With grid level storage, size and weight aren't an issue and we have tech to handle storage needs in those areas. Can it advance? Of course. 

Battery tech has massive infrastructure working against it. It is not cheap for a company to get into it. There are massive energy companies that will work against it until they themselves can harness the monetary benefit of it. And by and large the effects of the combustion engine appear to just float away. Like the toilet just washes our poop away..... but we all know that isn't true. It isn't with combustible engines and it isn't true with batteries either.

Here is a good article. The discussion that ensues in the comments is even better. Highly recommend it. 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602245/why-we-still-dont-have-better-batteries/#comments

As is frequently the case we can look back to the Farmer for a good answer. Farmers always found a way for their energy needs and the funny thing is that a lot of times their energy needs were solved by.... Multi faceted renewable energy sources. Even after the advent of the combustible engine. They used water power where possible, wind power where possible, fire when needed, heck even early pioneers where harnessing the power of the sun. And yes of course the engine at times. This was all because of necessity. We just need to be honest what is a necessity.

This is where I might get preachy and it might be construed as political or at least has the ability to go there if someone takes it that way. I just think that as a species we sort of have gotten to a point of excess.

Do I need to drive my truck in to work every single day? Not really, but I do. For most city dwelling folks it isn't a necessity. There are public transportation options that we could all use. And if they were enhanced all the better. Now allof a sudden rather than thousands of vehicles in a city powered by gas and batteries we have 100 or some fraction of the typical number of vehicles on the road. But some days I might need to drive myself if I have a need to be somewhere that relies on my own timeline. That's when having a vehicle that is more efficient makes sense. I mean I could make the case that the absolute timeline for workdays is part of the problem as well. Or the fact that we have tech that makes it possible for many office workers to not even have to be at the office to do their work is one of those multi faceted approaches that could lessen our need on personal transportation as well. In fact car sharing is something that is very attractive to many people that live closer to their place of work. Which brings us to....

We have to look at the way that we live our lives as well. Urban sprawl in America has gotten pretty crazy. And I'm one that lives in a once outer suburb. It's just how we live. But really it doesn't make much sense from a species point of view. In my mind the only people that should really be living that far out are the farmers and others that NEED to be because that is where they work. But we move farther out and push the farmers farther out and in turn we push nature further out and we keep pushing those boundaries. It's not a smart way to live. Even a goldfish will not outgrow it's own bowl. We used ot have resorts and places to get away. Now everyone has to have their own cabin on a lake and maybe even a second home to go with it. And we have to get there. And pull our boat. And our bike rack. And maybe bring a second car because the dog won't fit with all the kids and the other stuff.... plus we might have to run into town. Don't get me wrong.... I love all that shit too!

There is some evidence that Millennials and the next gen (whatever they are called) are moving away from needing to acquire "things" and "Stuff" but we will see as they get older and have more money in their pockets. Maybe they are the goldfish and we are naturally starting to curb what is "bad" for our existence. We are a smart species but we are sort of dumb too. We think the goldfish is dumb but it inherently is smart enough to modify it's own behavior to suit its needs. 
So again it's about using what we need rather than what we desire all the time. We are a pleasure driven species. We just need to balance that out. 
In other words don't shit where you eat. 

@"Mike Olson" said: Well we are more advanced and we aren't. We certainly weren't powering consumer grade lawn mowers on a large scale in the 80's on batteries, or chainsaws and even a battery drill was good for about an hour. So we have, but we are limited and there are a number of factors working against advancing. You mentioned things like computers and cell phones advancing at a far greater speed and I'd say that without the batteries advancing many of those things wouldn't either. Especially items like cell phones and laptops etc. In fact mobile devices (including transportation) are the very things that push the boundaries of battery tech to where we are today. Grid storage grade batteries are already pretty much there as far as what is needed. It is compact batteries that are the quandry. With grid level storage, size and weight aren't an issue and we have tech to handle storage needs in those areas. Can it advance? Of course. 

Battery tech has massive infrastructure working against it. It is not cheap for a company to get into it. There are massive energy companies that will work against it until they themselves can harness the monetary benefit of it. And by and large the effects of the combustion engine appear to just float away. Like the toilet just washes our poop away..... but we all know that isn't true. It isn't with combustible engines and it isn't true with batteries either.

Here is a good article. The discussion that ensues in the comments is even better. Highly recommend it. 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602245/why-we-still-dont-have-better-batteries/#comments

As is frequently the case we can look back to the Farmer for a good answer. Farmers always found a way for their energy needs and the funny thing is that a lot of times their energy needs were solved by.... Multi faceted renewable energy sources. Even after the advent of the combustible engine. They used water power where possible, wind power where possible, fire when needed, heck even early pioneers where harnessing the power of the sun. And yes of course the engine at times. This was all because of necessity. We just need to be honest what is a necessity.

This is where I might get preachy and it might be construed as political or at least has the ability to go there if someone takes it that way. I just think that as a species we sort of have gotten to a point of excess.

Do I need to drive my truck in to work every single day? Not really, but I do. For most city dwelling folks it isn't a necessity. There are public transportation options that we could all use. And if they were enhanced all the better. Now allof a sudden rather than thousands of vehicles in a city powered by gas and batteries we have 100 or some fraction of the typical number of vehicles on the road. But some days I might need to drive myself if I have a need to be somewhere that relies on my own timeline. That's when having a vehicle that is more efficient makes sense. I mean I could make the case that the absolute timeline for workdays is part of the problem as well. Or the fact that we have tech that makes it possible for many office workers to not even have to be at the office to do their work is one of those multi faceted approaches that could lessen our need on personal transportation as well. In fact car sharing is something that is very attractive to many people that live closer to their place of work. Which brings us to....

We have to look at the way that we live our lives as well. Urban sprawl in America has gotten pretty crazy. And I'm one that lives in a once outer suburb. It's just how we live. But really it doesn't make much sense from a species point of view. In my mind the only people that should really be living that far out are the farmers and others that NEED to be because that is where they work. But we move farther out and push the farmers farther out and in turn we push nature further out and we keep pushing those boundaries. It's not a smart way to live. Even a goldfish will not outgrow it's own bowl. We used ot have resorts and places to get away. Now everyone has to have their own cabin on a lake and maybe even a second home to go with it. And we have to get there. And pull our boat. And our bike rack. And maybe bring a second car because the dog won't fit with all the kids and the other stuff.... plus we might have to run into town. Don't get me wrong.... I love all that shit too!

There is some evidence that Millennials and the next gen (whatever they are called) are moving away from needing to acquire "things" and "Stuff" but we will see as they get older and have more money in their pockets. Maybe they are the goldfish and we are naturally starting to curb what is "bad" for our existence. We are a smart species but we are sort of dumb too. We think the goldfish is dumb but it inherently is smart enough to modify it's own behavior to suit its needs. 
So again it's about using what we need rather than what we desire all the time. We are a pleasure driven species. We just need to balance that out. 
In other words don't shit where you eat. 

battery powered tools. pfffff. tell that to the 3 dewalt batteries that failed on me this year. ive got 6-8 of them sitting in a box. dang things quit working after about 4 yrs. i want more then that out of my car. 

@"AGRforever" said: battery powered tools. pfffff. tell that to the 3 dewalt batteries that failed on me this year. ive got 6-8 of them sitting in a box. dang things quit working after about 4 yrs. i want more then that out of my car. 

@"AGRforever" said: battery powered tools. pfffff. tell that to the 3 dewalt batteries that failed on me this year. ive got 6-8 of them sitting in a box. dang things quit working after about 4 yrs. i want more then that out of my car. 

Then you have the cars whose engines fail prematurely. Of course you also have battery powered submarines that our nation completely relies on and has for decades. 

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"AGRforever" said: battery powered tools. pfffff. tell that to the 3 dewalt batteries that failed on me this year. ive got 6-8 of them sitting in a box. dang things quit working after about 4 yrs. i want more then that out of my car. 

Anecdotal evidence isn't really worth much. I mean the problem very well could reside on the end of the handle after all. Show up to a job site and you aren't going to find too many corded drills these days. 

Then you have the cars whose engines fail prematurely. Of course you also have battery powered submarines that our nation completely relies on and has for decades. 

I don't know...Give a nice throaty V-8 or WORP DRIVE!  None of this in between crap. =)

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"AGRforever" said: battery powered tools. pfffff. tell that to the 3 dewalt batteries that failed on me this year. ive got 6-8 of them sitting in a box. dang things quit working after about 4 yrs. i want more then that out of my car. 

Anecdotal evidence isn't really worth much. I mean the problem very well could reside on the end of the handle after all. Show up to a job site and you aren't going to find too many corded drills these days. 

Then you have the cars whose engines fail prematurely. Of course you also have battery powered submarines that our nation completely relies on and has for decades. 

speaking of batteries... $96 freaking dollars for a dinky little battery for my 4 wheeler.   :o  and I had to fill it with acid and charge it before I could install it.  i didnt pay that much for a battery for my tractor and its about 6 times bigger and it was ready to go.   I cant imagine how expensive battery changes are in these electric cars.

@"JimmyinSD" said: speaking of batteries... $96 freaking dollars for a dinky little battery for my 4 wheeler.   :o  and I had to fill it with acid and charge it before I could install it.  i didnt pay that much for a battery for my tractor and its about 6 times bigger and it was ready to go.   I cant imagine how expensive battery changes are in these electric cars.

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: speaking of batteries... $96 freaking dollars for a dinky little battery for my 4 wheeler.   :o  and I had to fill it with acid and charge it before I could install it.  i didnt pay that much for a battery for my tractor and its about 6 times bigger and it was ready to go.   I cant imagine how expensive battery changes are in these electric cars.

you ain't got a fleet farm over there? Or is yours farm and fleet?