Vikings’ opponents are attacking Trae Waynes – how is he holding up?
The Minnesota Vikings have a full-grown defense.
Built on first-round picks, patient development and savvy free agent signings, they have matured during Mike Zimmer’s time into one of the best in the NFL for three years running.
Opponents have very few options against a defense that sent players from every position group to the Pro Bowl. Running hasn’t been an option this year as the Vikings have given up just 3.2 yards per carry, good for third in the NFL.
Throwing at Xavier Rhodes isn’t much of an option as he’s grown into a top shutdown corner, giving up just 18 receptions for 184 yards this season. Safety Harrison Smith is the No. 1 ranked player at his position by Pro Football Focus and Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks are among the league’s best linebacker duos now that Barr is back to 2015 form.
And all of the Vikings’ success on defense runs through their ability to rush the passer with the front four.
That leaves Trae Waynes, a former first-round pick who has been slowly prepped for a starting corner job since being selected 11th overall in 2015. During his rookie year, he was only on the field for 18.1% of total defensive snaps. That number went up to 55.9% and this season he’s been on the field for 404 of 451 defensive plays (89.6%).
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/10/vikings-opponents-attacking-trae-waynes-holding/
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
How has he done as the target of opposing passing games? In the first two weeks, he certainly struggled, giving up 9-for-10 passing on throws his way to Brees, then he gave up a bomb and a long pass interference against the Steelers.
Since Week 3, opposing teams have had little success working the ball in Waynes’ direction. They’ve registered a 68.3 passer rating. He’s also done a strong job tackling, giving up only 41 yards after catch.
It probably isn’t a coincidence that the quarterbacks the Vikings have faced since Week 3 have been Winston, Mitch Trubisky, Brett Hundley and Joe Flacco – a far cry from Brees and Roethlisberger.
Last season, Waynes had his two poorest games against Aaron Rodgers.
Overall he’s given up a 91.3 rating and ranks 73rd of 112 corners who have played enough snaps to qualify for Pro Football Focus ratings. We will have a better sense of where Waynes’ transition to a full-timer stands after the bye week. This week, the Vikings face the NFL’s worst quarterback DeShone Kizer, who has just three touchdowns and 11 interceptions. But after the bye, they match up with Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton in succession.
His play during that stretch could be the determining factor of whether the Vikings pick up his fifth-year option next offseason.
It could also determine whether the Vikings are a really good defense or the league’s best defense. If Waynes continues his trend since Week 3, there will be nowhere for opposing offenses to attack consistently.
He's an average CB with elite physical ability. He'll put his nose in there in the run game. But Waynes will never live up to that great potential. We could have it worse in that spot.
I get upset when I think about how we selected Waynes in front of Peters from KC. It's kinda like Darren Nelson being taken in front of Marcus Allen in 1982.
@"1Wildman" said: I get upset when I think about how we selected Waynes in front of Peters from KC. It's kinda like Darren Nelson being taken in front of Marcus Allen in 1982.
do you really watch Peters play or just look at stats? He has a great nose for the ball, but he also gambles on many plays and leave his teammates exposed as well. that type of play would not be seen in a Zimmer defense. I think the biggest challenge for guys coming into Zims D is to learn how much leash they have and still play within the constraints of his system and coverages.
@"1Wildman" said: I get upset when I think about how we selected Waynes in front of Peters from KC. It's kinda like Darren Nelson being taken in front of Marcus Allen in 1982.
Peters wouldn't work out in Zim's system. He is very undisciplined and takes big gambles that sometimes pay off but sometimes they don't and he gets burned. Zim wants consistency.
@"StickyBun" said: He's an average CB with elite physical ability. He'll put his nose in there in the run game. But Waynes will never live up to that great potential. We could have it worse in that spot.pretty dogmatic statement. Two years ago the same could have been said about Rhodes. Didn't turn his head and look for the ball. Too handsy, wasn't living up to the potential. Now look where he is.
Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.
Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
@"greediron" said:@"StickyBun" said: He's an average CB with elite physical ability. He'll put his nose in there in the run game. But Waynes will never live up to that great potential. We could have it worse in that spot. pretty dogmatic statement. Two years ago the same could have been said about Rhodes. Didn't turn his head and look for the ball. Too handsy, wasn't living up to the potential. Now look where he is.
Of course its dogmatic...but its opinion. But just because one guy (Rhodes) evolved means what exactly? That its possible? Sure. Probable? No. Anything is possible. That doesn't mean we can't have strong opinions on the current and historical state of Trae Waynes as a Viking. I'm not a Waynes hater, but not every player is going to pan out to what they could be. In fact, the odds are better that he won't considering where he is right now.
I think the better money is on Trae progressing rather than saying he has hit his ceiling because well.... We have a coach that is known for bringing along defensive backs.
given the coaching and his abilities, I would say the odds are good that he will be a lock down CB.
@"greediron" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
Rhodes man is rarely targeted, and we have the #4 defense. But damnit check out the shade of green on that other guys lawn.
@"purplefaithful" said:@"greediron" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
i would put it at closer to 98/2. Most fans probably don't know who Waynes is because he is talked about so little. Peters makes splash plays, Waynes plays a role on a great defense.
@"purplefaithful" said:@"greediron" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
Not accurate. I don't have the DirectTV and have to watch most games at bars in KC. Let me tell you, about a third of the time when I hear the crowd groan it's because Peters just gambled on a pick and got burned.He's also far from the shutdown Corner casual observers would like to believe and will absolutely committed selfish Personal Fouls no matter the game situation.
@"FSUVike" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"greediron" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
Not accurate. I don't have the DirectTV and have to watch most games at bars in KC. Let me tell you, about a third of the time when I hear the crowd groan it's because Peters just gambled on a pick and got burned.He's also far from the shutdown Corner casual observers would like to believe and will absolutely committed selfish Personal Fouls no matter the game situation.
Cecil Fielder would be a better comparison than Marcus Allen.
@"FSUVike" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"greediron" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
Not accurate. I don't have the DirectTV and have to watch most games at bars in KC. Let me tell you, about a third of the time when I hear the crowd groan it's because Peters just gambled on a pick and got burned.He's also far from the shutdown Corner casual observers would like to believe and will absolutely committed selfish Personal Fouls no matter the game situation.
@"FSUVike" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
Anyone defending passing on Peter's for Wayne's is drinking a lot of kool aid.Zimmer could have worked with Peters, molded him just fine. Smells like passing on Marcus Allen for Darrin Nelson cause Darrin was more "all purpose back" vs "pure runner"
If marcus allen was either a fumble or TD type of back. This isn't even close to that. Why do you assume Zimmer would have been able to mold him if other coaches haven't been able to? Perhaps Trae had the personality and talent that Zimmer was looking for.
Not a stretch to think Zimm could have molded a pro-bowl corner.We're not going to hit a home run on everyone and lord knows I'm not perfect. But when you have a chance to take the #1 corner in a draft, you'd better make it the right choice. They did not and passed on a pro-bowler for an average, pedestrian corner who can run fast.
Dont think too many Chiefs fans would swap Waynes for Peters right now. We'll see if Waynes gets his 5th year from the Vikings or not. I'd put it at 50/50 right now.
Not accurate. I don't have the DirectTV and have to watch most games at bars in KC. Let me tell you, about a third of the time when I hear the crowd groan it's because Peters just gambled on a pick and got burned.He's also far from the shutdown Corner casual observers would like to believe and will absolutely committed selfish Personal Fouls no matter the game situation.
I saw Peter's get burned and another PI vs the Raiders last week. He didn't look very good to me. I think it is a case of the grass is always greener like mike indicated. I don't think Peter's and Waynes are that far apart and wouldn't be surprised if Waynes ends up having a better career.
@"StickyBun" said:@"greediron" said:@"StickyBun" said: He's an average CB with elite physical ability. He'll put his nose in there in the run game. But Waynes will never live up to that great potential. We could have it worse in that spot. pretty dogmatic statement. Two years ago the same could have been said about Rhodes. Didn't turn his head and look for the ball. Too handsy, wasn't living up to the potential. Now look where he is.
Of course its dogmatic...but its opinion. But just because one guy (Rhodes) evolved means what exactly? That its possible? Sure. Probable? No. Anything is possible. That doesn't mean we can't have strong opinions on the current and historical state of Trae Waynes as a Viking. I'm not a Waynes hater, but not every player is going to pan out to what they could be. In fact, the odds are better that he won't considering where he is right now.
Consistent from Sticky - he makes up his mind on a player within a year or 2 - doesn't think they can get better, I guess. Already think Waynes has reached his peak with his first year starting in a Top 5 Defense. Just like think Treadwell is a bust in his second season.I have seen numerous players, both vets and young, get better with better coaching like from Zimmer and staff - guys like Captain, Sandejo, Rhodes, Barr is tackling better this season, and the list goes on but posters can have an opinion of course but I tend towards the whole year 3 threshold to gauge before I throw a player away. This is Waynes 3rd year but first year starting. He struggled some the first two games but has settled-in very nicely and he is one of the Top 3 defenses and of course he is going to get picked on more then Rhodes - Rhodes is Top 3 CB's in the NFL right now - so Waynes is going to be tested early and often. I'll wait until the end of this year, year 3, to gauge Waynes in terms of progress but guys can get better at their jobs with more time.
That said, Year 4 (next year) we will really have to gauge what Waynes if worth, in our system, to determine 5th year option. The 5th year option and being a pick in the teens would value him at the Top 10 to 20 CB's in the NFL. That is where push comes to shove - cornerback pun intended.
Peters is a lot like Dre Bly. Gambling is great when you look at those interceptions and make judgements about a corner's ability. But he gets burned freelancing... a lot.
Waynes might not put it together and become an elite corner, but he's improving in coverage, he's physical in the run game, and he does what the scheme requires. And if they pick up his option, I assume Zimmer likes him and believes in him... and that means more than anyone's opinion here.
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