THE OFFENSIVE LINE

pass protection was great. on 1 sack he sat back there all day on a 3 man rush, had all the time to move out of the way but decided to get sacked instead. that was disgusting

If I am an OLineman I would be pissed. Sacks make them look bad when they didn't deserve it.

I'm not absolving KOC or K1 for poor play, but PFN now grades the Vikings OL in Tier F (thats not good):

vs Detroit, Mason averaged 2.5 ypc, Jones 4.2 ypc (but only 5 carries)

Not only did the backs do poorly (and the OL sucks at running the ball), KOC only had them carry about 13 times yesterday.

=========================================================

F Tier: Philadelphia Eagles, Minnesota Vikings, Carolina Panthers, Miami Dolphins, Los Angeles Chargers, Houston Texans

Philadelphia and Minnesota were the two new additions to the bottom tier.

The Eagles’ fall is particularly jarring because dominant offensive line play has been one of the franchise’s defining traits for years. Chadwick summed up the current situation simply: “It just feels like bad vibes all around.”

Lane Johnson’s midseason retirement accelerated the transition. Philadelphia had already traded Cam Jurgens to Baltimore, while Landon Dickerson’s injury has further thinned an interior that once ranked among the league’s best.

Jordan Mailata remains an elite left tackle, but the Eagles are now leaning on Willie Lampkin, Drew Kendall, Tyler Steen, and rookie Markel Bell around him. Infante liked Bell’s developmental upside coming out of college but didn’t expect Philadelphia to need him in such a prominent role this quickly.

For an organization that has historically stayed ahead of offensive line turnover, the sudden number of holes stood out to both analysts.

Minnesota’s record has masked some similar problems. Christian Darrisaw remains a quality tackle when healthy, and Brian O’Neill has spent years as a reliable starter, but the line has struggled to produce consistent play as a whole.

Chadwick specifically cited problems in both pass protection and run blocking and viewed the interior as an area Minnesota still needs to address. The Vikings have been able to win around the line because of their defense, but that didn’t convince either analyst to keep the unit out of F.

• Lack of Push and Inconsistency: PFN's metric evaluates units relative to their peers, and Minnesota's low grade reflects persistent protection and run-blocking issues that were highly visible in the 19-15 loss to the Lions.

• The Highs and Lows: Per PFN's cumulative player grading, tackle Brian O'Neill has been the line's brightest spot with a 78.6 impact grade. Conversely, the interior depth has been highly penalized by the metric; backup Michael Jurgens sits at the bottom of the unit with a 51.9 impact grade, illustrating the team's ongoing struggles to replace injured starter Donovan Jackson.

In pass protection yesterday, the Vikings' offensive line gave up constant, structural pressure that derailed the passing game in the 15-19 loss to the Lions.

Pass Protection Breakdown

• The Sacks: The line allowed 3 sacks on Kyler Murray, which resulted in a loss of 25 yards and repeatedly killed the team's drive momentum.

• Defensive Scheme Breakdown: According to film breakdowns, the interior of the line struggled immensely picking up stunts and twists. The Lions repeatedly engaged Blake Brandel with an interior lineman, allowing the defensive end to loop around on a crossover stunt to get a completely free path up the middle.

• Impact on the Game Plan: Because the line could not hold a clean pocket for standard dropbacks, head coach Kevin O’Connell was forced to alter the offense. They relied heavily on getting Murray out on the perimeter and moving outside the pocket to escape the immediate interior rush.

• The Resulting Inefficiency: With Murray constantly forced off his spots, the downfield passing game disappeared. Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison were frequently blanketed or missed due to forced, off-platform throws, leaving Murray to finish with a modest 17-of-29 passing line.

What I find so interesting is I don't remember fans talking much about A) the offensive line nor B) the lack of a running game last year. The amount of injuries last season, and it started early, was prolific. All anyone seemed to talk about was the 'historically bad' QB play of one JJ McCarthy. Now I see deep dives into all other aspects of the team, including our amazing D that was gassed by playing SO many minutes the first 3 quarters.

I see more double downs on fan narratives than I see any admissions that maybe signing Kyler Murray wasn't such a great idea. 🤔🤷‍♂️

StickierBuns wrote:

What I find so interesting is I don't remember fans talking much about A) the offensive line nor B) the lack of a running game last year. The amount of injuries last season, and it started early, was prolific. All anyone seemed to talk about was the 'historically bad' QB play of one JJ McCarthy. Now I see deep dives into all other aspects of the team, including our amazing D that was gassed by playing SO many minutes the first 3 quarters.
I see more double downs on fan narratives than I see any admissions that maybe signing Kyler Murray wasn't such a great idea. 🤔🤷‍♂️

"I'm not absolving KOC or K1 for poor play, but PFN now grades the Vikings OL in Tier F (thats not good)"

the social media op presented a case that pass pro and ol play was ok and not a factor. In reality it wasnt such a rosy picture (at all).

purplefaithful wrote:

"I'm not absolving KOC or K1 for poor play, but PFN now grades the Vikings OL in Tier F (thats not good)"
the social media op presented a case that pass pro and ol play was ok and not a factor. In reality it wasnt such a rosy picture (at all).

Yep, and I agree with you that the O-line hasn't been stellar, probably inconsistent is the better term....but yesterday they were pretty good.

StickierBuns wrote:

Yep, and I agree with you that the O-line hasn't been stellar, probably inconsistent is the better term....but yesterday they were pretty good.

Again, not making excuses for K1 (or KOC) but the OL performance yesterday is not nearly as good as some social media posts are arguing.

We've all been so focused on Taylor b4 the trade deadline and maybe the drum beats need to be as strong for trying to improve the IOL?

We'll just agree to disagree on that performance yesterday. Not when they can't run the ball and the iol struggled:

• Yesterday's Total: 12 total pressures (including 3 sacks and multiple quarterback hits).

• The Season Average: Going into yesterday, the Vikings' line was averaging 9.4 pressures allowed per game.

• The Deviation: The 12 pressures allowed represent a 27.6% increase over their seasonal baseline.

The spike in pressures was largely driven by the drop-off on the interior. Facing a Lions front seven that frequently utilized stunts and loops, the replacement guards struggled to pass off assignments, keeping the pocket collapsing inward and forcing Kyler Murray out of structure far more often than normal.

purplefaithful wrote:

Again, not making excuses for K1 (or KOC) but the OL performance yesterday is not nearly as good as some think.
We'll just agree to disagree on that performance yesterday. Not when they can't run the ball and the iol struggled:
Yesterday's Total: 12 total pressures (including 3 sacks and multiple quarterback hits).
The Season Average: Going into yesterday, the Vikings' line was averaging 9.4 pressures allowed per game.
The Deviation: The 12 pressures allowed represent a 27.6% increase over their seasonal baseline.
The spike in pressures was largely driven by the drop-off on the interior. Facing a Lions front seven that frequently utilized stunts and loops, the replacement guards struggled to pass off assignments, keeping the pocket collapsing inward and forcing Kyler Murray out of structure far more often than normal.

And again, I really do hear you.....but my point is where were the ChatGPT dives last year? Different narrative.

StickierBuns wrote:

And again, I really do hear you.....but my point is where were the ChatGPT dives last year? Different narrative.

No, after time vocal fans just wanted to roast McCarthy and some of it was deserved. Fans are gonna fan...I haVe some in my season tix party that arent happy unless they have something to piss and moan about. It gets old tbh.

purplefaithful wrote:

Again, not making excuses for K1 (or KOC) but the OL performance yesterday is not nearly as good as some think.
We'll just agree to disagree on that performance yesterday. Not when they can't run the ball and the iol struggled:
Yesterday's Total: 12 total pressures (including 3 sacks and multiple quarterback hits).
The Season Average: Going into yesterday, the Vikings' line was averaging 9.4 pressures allowed per game.
The Deviation: The 12 pressures allowed represent a 27.6% increase over their seasonal baseline.
The spike in pressures was largely driven by the drop-off on the interior. Facing a Lions front seven that frequently utilized stunts and loops, the replacement guards struggled to pass off assignments, keeping the pocket collapsing inward and forcing Kyler Murray out of structure far more often than normal.

you cant absolve the QB for his role in the performance of the OL, holding the ball in one spot for to long and then taking a sack goes into that metric that goes against the OL, but it doesnt acknowledge that minnie mouse steps into sacks or just plain has shit pocket awareness and holds the ball to long. There is room to improve, but lets not even think about taking the focus away from the the primary problem and that is the QB and the coach that wont make the hard move.

JimmyinSD wrote:

There is room to improve, but lets not even think about taking the focus away from the the primary problem and that is the QB and the coach that wont make the hard move.

Bingo.

JimmyinSD wrote:

you cant absolve the QB for his role in the performance of the OL, holding the ball in one spot for to long and then taking a sack goes into that metric that goes against the OL, but it doesnt acknowledge that minnie mouse steps into sacks or just plain has shit pocket awareness and holds the ball to long. There is room to improve, but lets not even think about taking the focus away from the the primary problem and that is the QB and the coach that wont make the hard move.

The hard move to what?

Wentz? Its pretty much season over at that point. This is the time we should have been arguing with each other to play nine yet.

I hope it doesnt devolve that badly after a promising 6/0 start.

purplefaithful wrote:

The hard move to what?
Wentz? Its pretty much season over at that point.
I hope it doesnt devolve that badly after a promising 6/0 start.

I'm curious why you think this so strongly? You don't think he can even be close to average?

Here's the thing...you can't block up run plays all day long when the defense has no respect for your passing game. Even with Jefferson, Addison and the gang, Murray provides 0 threat. He might get lucky and hit 2 a game, but the rest of the time, the defense is playing downhill on the run game. Even play action stepping forward does not scare anyone. We just played the 31st ranked defense who lost 4 starters during the game, including arguably 2 of their very best in Branch and Campbell and STILL couldn't move the ball.

Murray stinks. Arizona knew it and frankly half the people even on this board knew it. This offense is not going to improve with any significance as long as he is under center, and that includes the run game.

pattersaur wrote:

I'm curious why you think this so strongly? You don't think he can even be close to average?

No I don't anymore. And with this IOL? I fear greatly for him too. He doesn’t move much better than me anymore.

I think his superpower (at this point in his career) is coming off the bench ala GB game vs starting week in/week out.

Just my take...

Reality is we may not have a choice but to switch it up at some point. I hope the season doesnt devolve that much after a promising start.

pattersaur wrote:

Was pretty goodView embedded content

They passed the eye test. Murray had multiple pockets with time to look at 3 reads. The ball just wasn’t coming out.

I am frustrated with the passing game, mostly looking at K1 as the issue, but it’s likely still a combo of KOC AND K1 not having the right flavor together . How long can one stand to watch the ineffectiveness? We are 6-1, ffs, my patience SHOULD be better, but here I am pissed

End of the day this was a close loss on the road to the best team in the NFC north. We have a damn good team this year, but the issue keeping us from being great remains unsolved.

purplefaithful wrote:

No I don't anymore. And with this IOL? I fear greatly for him too. He doesn’t move much better than me anymore.
I think his superpower (at this point in his career) is coming off the bench ala GB game vs starting week in/week out.
Just my take...
Reality is we may not have a choice but to switch it up at some point. I hope the season doesnt devolve that much after a promising start.

I tend to agree PF. Wentz was last really good in 2021. I think he can manage games for us and we can get to the playoffs with him. but I don’t see us beating elite teams with him at all.

All in all, I still think Murray has upside in this O, it’s just taking time to get there and I’m impatient as hell about it.

purplefaithful wrote:

The hard move to what?
Wentz? Its pretty much season over at that point. This is the time we should have been arguing with each other to play nine yet.
I hope it doesnt devolve that badly after a promising 6/0 start.

Wentz has looked better this year in his limited time ( and limited prep work) than Murray has with every advantage he has been given. Wentz or even Brosmer will get the ball out, which is first and foremost what you want your QB to do and that is deal the ball. Wentz will take a few more sacks most likely, but he can push the ball down field better and doesnt need to moon ball anything over 35 yards so it will be a better ball for the receivers. Murray is throwing way to many hospital balls, maybe that is another reason Jets is getting tired of this shit. Wentz's play against the Packers was better than anything and everything we have seen from Murray since then.

All we heard all offseason was how much better things were going to be, well they arent, they are worse, so continuing with Murray is the worst choice that could be made right now if we want to not waste this season, and hope to keep our receivers content and engaged.

I was not happy with the trade of JJM, but that is not worth wasting our time on, that is offseason material at this point. we need to talk about salvaging this season, IMO... start Wentz now, work the phones hard for another veteran to bring in as long as you dont have to break the bank or risk our future to do it. most likely available... Dan Jones, Kirk Cousins or maybe Geno Smith ( who is having a decent year stat wise despite being on a shit team.)

Bullazin wrote:

I tend to agree PF. Wentz was last really good in 2021. I think he can manage games for us and we can get to the playoffs with him. but I don’t see us beating elite teams with him at all.
All in all, I still think Murray has upside in this O, it’s just taking time to get there and I’m impatient as hell about it.

I am disappointed and frustrated too...And then add on the JJM frustration and it hasn't been enjoyable (outside of the D).

Murray may very well not be the guy. If it doesn’t get better they'll have no choice but to make a move to Carson.

Whether that happens in November or not????