Day 2 Practice ~ July 30 ~ Whatever ya got!

StickierBuns wrote:

I think KOC is slightly irritated that the whole media and fan world hasn't genuflected at the alter of K1. He's got no one but himself to blame after getting on his soapbox and saying how organizations let down young QBs.....then hypocritically does so. It takes some fortitude to hang in there, but maybe sweet realization kicked in when it happened to him that there needs to be 'standards in the QB room'. Which is a dig on JJ.
Whatever, just have to hope for the best.

You may be on to something with that take. I know if you watch clips, it is JJ that is more hyped with his teammates. It is JJ that teammates are more interactive with. Regardless of what you read, what is shown proves much more. One part of the competition doesn't seem close.

Jefferson: "We know he can ball (Kyler) but we need him to be that leader that is needed in a locker room"

JustInTime wrote:

To me, if JJ performs last year, shows enough upside and stays on the field, we’re not having this conversation.

Agreed. But its also important to recognize that it wasn't optimal with the line injuries, his own injuries and maybe some less than ideal play calling. Zero run game to support a young QB. And accuracy right now is his issue, he needs reps. Lets not forget that getting Murray came because of zero trade comp and the league vet minimum to sign/one year contract.....wouldn't have happened otherwise. I'm sure we'd still be in a QB1 competition, but not sure who the other candidate would be. I just think there's a bigger picture to consider IMO.

supafreak84 wrote:

But, ultimately...was the better move to continue developing McCarthy and not retard his growth and progression by creating a quarterback controversy, err competition, or signing a veteran who's skillset doesn't fit this offense as we've come to know it under a head coach who has continually shown his unwillingness to bend his system? I get wanting to "upgrade the room" but the better move in the short and long term was to continue developing the younger player in McCarthy, and sticking with the plan of building the roster around a quarterback on a rookie contract. Instead, after an up and down "rookie" season that was derailed by several mitigating factors, the head coach, who did a piss poor job in the development of that quarterback, pivots to a veteran who doesn't fit the system. It's a clear desperation move by the head coach who's feeling the pressure of not winning in the playoffs. Will it work out? I have my doubts and don't like anything about how OConnell has conducted business with this group of quarterbacks.

Agreed.

I also agree that Kyler will win the competition even if he doesn't win the competition. The team brought him in and probably feels obligated to see what he can do on Sundays. They're pot-committed.

IF (BIG IF) JJM really does look like the better player in the lead-up to the season? That will be exciting and I'm all for it. I think most will be. But only the Minnesota Vikings franchise could be twisted into such a pretzel that they decide to start the older QB on a shorter contract than the homegrown starter under team control for a few more years with more upside. Fun little bed we've made for ourselves here.

JustInTime wrote:

To me, if JJ performs last year, shows enough upside and stays on the field, we’re not having this conversation.

Yup!

I also believe things were "more challenging" behind the scenes than what we've been told.

Its in the past now, on to day 3...

JustInTime wrote:

To me, if JJ performs last year, shows enough upside and stays on the field, we’re not having this conversation.

"Performs" and "Shows enough upside" - 6-4 record with some big wins against division rivals. He had the come-from-behind win against the Bears in his first game in over 600+ days, on the road, set records, etc. He iced the game against the Lions in Detroit on a perfect back shoulder throw to Nailor. Put the team up with 52 seconds left against the Bears and should have sealed another win. Clobbered Washington. Beat up Dallas on the road under the lights again.

I'm not sure what people want out of a "rookie" who just came off of an incredibly debilitating injury in which he missed his entire first season working with the team, birth of his first child early in the season, 25+ offensive line rotations, and inconsistencies with receivers.

Injuries are part of the game and he has never had a serious injury in his career and he had some bad fortune so far in the league, but that's the NFL. History proves he should be fine.

IceRatz16 wrote:

"Performs" and "Shows enough upside" - 6-4 record with some big wins against division rivals. He had the come-from-behind win against the Bears in his first game in over 600+ days, on the road, set records, etc. He iced the game against the Lions in Detroit on a perfect back shoulder throw to Nailor. Put the team up with 52 seconds left against the Bears and should have sealed another win. Clobbered Washington. Beat up Dallas on the road under the lights again.

I'm not sure what people want out of a "rookie" who just came off of an incredibly debilitating injury in which he missed his entire first season working with the team, birth of his first child early in the season, 25+ offensive line rotations, and inconsistencies with receivers.

Injuries are part of the game and he has never had a serious injury in his career and he had some bad fortune so far in the league, but that's the NFL. History proves he should be fine.

Well said

IceRatz16 wrote:

"Performs" and "Shows enough upside" - 6-4 record with some big wins against division rivals. He had the come-from-behind win against the Bears in his first game in over 600+ days, on the road, set records, etc. He iced the game against the Lions in Detroit on a perfect back shoulder throw to Nailor. Put the team up with 52 seconds left against the Bears and should have sealed another win. Clobbered Washington. Beat up Dallas on the road under the lights again.

I'm not sure what people want out of a "rookie" who just came off of an incredibly debilitating injury in which he missed his entire first season working with the team, birth of his first child early in the season, 25+ offensive line rotations, and inconsistencies with receivers.

Injuries are part of the game and he has never had a serious injury in his career and he had some bad fortune so far in the league, but that's the NFL. History proves he should be fine.

BOOM

IceRatz16 wrote:

"Performs" and "Shows enough upside" - 6-4 record with some big wins against division rivals. He had the come-from-behind win against the Bears in his first game in over 600+ days, on the road, set records, etc. He iced the game against the Lions in Detroit on a perfect back shoulder throw to Nailor. Put the team up with 52 seconds left against the Bears and should have sealed another win. Clobbered Washington. Beat up Dallas on the road under the lights again.

I'm not sure what people want out of a "rookie" who just came off of an incredibly debilitating injury in which he missed his entire first season working with the team, birth of his first child early in the season, 25+ offensive line rotations, and inconsistencies with receivers.

Injuries are part of the game and he has never had a serious injury in his career and he had some bad fortune so far in the league, but that's the NFL. History proves he should be fine.

None of this matters when the issue is consistency. McCarthy followed up the Chicago game with a terrible game against Atlanta...and a passer rating of 37. He followed the Cowboy game with a bad game against the Giants.

Zach Wilson, Mariota, Trubiski, Fields, Harrington, Bortles, Ponder, Young, Leinart….all of them have had really good moments too. All failed because they couldn't do it consistently. That's every young QB's millstone and it's JJ's too.

MaroonBells wrote:

All failed because they couldn't do it consistently. That's every young QB's millstone and it's JJ's too.

Man, we've seen that so much over the years - not just Viking Qb's either.

I really hope McCarthy doesn't fall into this camp.

Fanbase here deserves a franchise qb to rally around.

So, a meniscus tear is now a debilitating injury.

Oh boy.

I said what I said. If JJ showed the upside so many think he has, Murray is elsewhere and this is a moot conversation.

Period.

MaroonBells wrote:

None of this matters when the issue is consistency. McCarthy followed up the Chicago game with a terrible game against Atlanta...and a passer rating of 37. He followed the Cowboy game with a bad game against the Giants.
Zach Wilson, Mariota, Trubiski, Fields, Harrington, Bortles, Ponder, Young, Leinart….all of them have had really good moments too. All failed because they couldn't do it consistently. That's every young QB's millstone and it's JJ's too.

I don't disagree that consistency is the ultimate goal. Every franchise quarterback has to become consistent.

Where we disagree is when it's reasonable to expect it.

You listed a bunch of quarterbacks who ultimately failed. That's hindsight. At 10 starts, nobody knew with certainty how their careers would end. Some improved. Some didn't.

My point is much simpler: 10 starts isn't enough to know.

McCarthy wasn't entering the league under normal circumstances either. He lost essentially his entire rookie season to injury, then made his first NFL starts after more than 600 days without meaningful football. That's a developmental setback very few quarterbacks have had to overcome.

Yes, he followed good games with bad games. That's called being a rookie quarterback. Josh Allen did it. Peyton Manning did it. Troy Aikman did it. Plenty of successful quarterbacks were wildly inconsistent early before the game slowed down.

If we're still having this same conversation after 30 or 40 starts, I'll be much more concerned. But after 10? I think declaring that inconsistency is who he is rather than where he is is jumping the gun.

JustInTime wrote:

So, a meniscus tear is now a debilitating injury.
Oh boy.
I said what I said. If JJ showed the upside so many think he has, Murray is elsewhere and this is a moot conversation.
Period.

You're focusing on the name of the injury, not what it cost him.

Call it a meniscus tear. Call it whatever you want. The reality is he lost an entire year of development, practice reps, preseason games, and live NFL experience. Then his first meaningful football in over 600 days came after rehab and all the rust that comes with it.

That's the context I don't think some of you are giving enough weight.

As for "if he showed enough upside, Murray is elsewhere"...I don't think it's nearly that black and white. Plenty of young quarterbacks have looked rough early and were still given Year 2 to show what a normal offseason and another year of development looked like.

McCarthy never got that opportunity. That's been my point from the day Murray was signed.

pattersaur wrote:

. They're pot-committed.

Disagree. He is on a tiny contract. AZ is footing his bill not us. We're not pot committed to him at all. 1 year contract. May the best man win.

JustInTime wrote:

So, a meniscus tear is now a debilitating injury.
Oh boy.
I said what I said. If JJ showed the upside so many think he has, Murray is elsewhere and this is a moot conversation.
Period.

Agreed JJ could’ve flashed more and locked the spot down. Also if Murray shows more in Arizona maybe they don’t pay him $35mil to leave.

Neither guy is entering this competition on a “winning streak”.

IceRatz16 wrote:

"Performs" and "Shows enough upside" - 6-4 record with some big wins against division rivals. He had the come-from-behind win against the Bears in his first game in over 600+ days, on the road, set records, etc. He iced the game against the Lions in Detroit on a perfect back shoulder throw to Nailor. Put the team up with 52 seconds left against the Bears and should have sealed another win. Clobbered Washington. Beat up Dallas on the road under the lights again.

I'm not sure what people want out of a "rookie" who just came off of an incredibly debilitating injury in which he missed his entire first season working with the team, birth of his first child early in the season, 25+ offensive line rotations, and inconsistencies with receivers.

Injuries are part of the game and he has never had a serious injury in his career and he had some bad fortune so far in the league, but that's the NFL. History proves he should be fine.

Well.... I'd be hoping for more than the below stats. His QBR was terrible and his yards per game sucked. 11TD's to 12 Int's.

And I think he was statistically the 2nd worst QB ever since 2000. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/touchdown/2025/11/24/j-j-mccarthy-is-statistically-the-second-worst-qb-since-2000-quarter-century/87457048007/

So yeah... Not pumped on him at all. He has a lot to prove and I have ZERO desire to hand the keys back over to him again.

IceRatz16 wrote:

I don't disagree that consistency is the ultimate goal. Every franchise quarterback has to become consistent.
Where we disagree is when it's reasonable to expect it.
You listed a bunch of quarterbacks who ultimately failed. That's hindsight. At 10 starts, nobody knew with certainty how their careers would end. Some improved. Some didn't.
My point is much simpler: 10 starts isn't enough to know.
McCarthy wasn't entering the league under normal circumstances either. He lost essentially his entire rookie season to injury, then made his first NFL starts after more than 600 days without meaningful football. That's a developmental setback very few quarterbacks have had to overcome.
Yes, he followed good games with bad games. That's called being a rookie quarterback. Josh Allen did it. Peyton Manning did it. Troy Aikman did it. Plenty of successful quarterbacks were wildly inconsistent early before the game slowed down.
If we're still having this same conversation after 30 or 40 starts, I'll be much more concerned. But after 10? I think declaring that inconsistency is who he is rather than where he is is jumping the gun.

It’s the only thing I’ve ever really said and the point that I stand on the hardest: 10 starts is not nearly enough to understand anything about him.

pattersaur wrote:

Agreed JJ could’ve flashed more and locked the spot down. Also if Murray shows more in Arizona maybe they don’t pay him $35mil to leave.

Neither guy is entering this competition on a “winning streak”.

Great point. And if Murray isn't available for vet minimum and wants to play under KOC, we aren't having this conversation either.

MaroonBells wrote:

Zach Wilson, Mariota, Trubiski, Fields, Harrington, Bortles, Ponder, Young, Leinart….all of them have had really good moments too. All failed because they couldn't do it consistently. That's every young QB's millstone and it's JJ's too.

Yet Murray has a career .437 winning percentage.

Not to mention a phenomenal comeback record when the game is on the line and its his game to lose

When trailing or tied in the 4th quarter—defined as having a "one-possession opportunity" (within 8 points) to tie or take the lead—Kyler Murray has an estimated record of 11-30-1 in 4th quarter comeback situations when he can win the game. [1, 2]

SurfnRide wrote:

Well.... I'd be hoping for more than the below stats. His QBR was terrible and his yards per game sucked. 11TD's to 12 Int's.
And I think he was statistically the 2nd worst QB ever since 2000. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/touchdown/2025/11/24/j-j-mccarthy-is-statistically-the-second-worst-qb-since-2000-quarter-century/87457048007/
So yeah... Not pumped on him at all. He has a lot to prove and I have ZERO desire to hand the keys back over to him again.

Honest question: Are stats the ultimate measuring stick for quarterback play?

They matter, but championships are won by teams, and quarterbacks who consistently find ways to win are usually valued more than guys who simply put up fantasy numbers.

McCarthy's numbers need to improve. Nobody disputes that. My issue is people acting like 10 games, after missing essentially two years of meaningful football, is enough to conclude he'll never get there.

If stats alone determined championships, why do some of the greatest statistical quarterbacks ever have fewer rings than guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Nick Foles?

Numbers matter. So do leadership, situational football, decision-making, and winning.

Canthony wrote:

Yet Murray has a career .437 winning percentage.
Not to mention a phenomenal comeback record when the game is on the line and its his game to lose
When trailing or tied in the 4th quarter—defined as having a "one-possession opportunity" (within 8 points) to tie or take the lead—Kyler Murray has an estimated record of 11-30-1 in 4th quarter comeback situations when he can win the game. [1, 2]

😂

Listen my fellow fans.....we have to find a way to unite on this no matter the QB. We all want wins, that's the ultimate goal. If the wins come, we've got nothing to complain about nor do we need to do anything but send the flowers to QB1 and be giddy.

If the wins don't come, well.......