Hmmmm...

@"FSUVike" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"pumpf" said: Case is what he is: a back-up QB.  He can (with help) win games... but he will (probably) not be the main reason for the win.  In other words, he is a game-manager.  He had a great game (against a lousy defense)... and has been mediocre since then.  He is who he is.  I think he's a great back-up and should be signed to be our long-term back-up.  But he's not our future.  Teddy might be... Sloter might be.  If Teddy can get worked back in, I would like to see what he's got (rather than waiting 'til the off-season).  Same thing for Sloter (if it comes to that).

But why is it just "assumed" that Case is a backup QB?  I think he is easily better than some of the starters that are playing in this league.  His season stats of 64.2%, with 5 TDs and 1 INT, and a QB rating of 93.1 suggest to me that he should not automatically be placed in the backup QB role. 

Because we watch him miss open players in the progression, miss wide open throws and lack the arm strength to challenge teams deep.

There were a lot of PIs called yesterday. And he was throwing against backups and backups to backups. Neither of those will happen very often going forward.

I personally believe that some folks think League Average means mediocre all the time. In actuality it means a player looks better than average on some days and like a fringe player on others.

Case lost to a Lions team missing several starters that just got housed by the Saints. He beat a Bucs Defense that just got housed by the Cardinals.

Look, he's inarguably an above average backup. That doesn't make him a starter. Neither do wins against injury riddled teams.

The fact that Case hasn't caught on- despite being on some really QB-poor teams is ONE indication that he is destined to be a career back-up.  What I've seen from him (so far) is the other.  Of course, the only "fact" here... is that those are my opinions.  Frankly, I want to see what Sloter can do... because I think he might be better than anyone on our roster (with a little time).

How can Sloter possibly have more upside than Keenum? 

I get he is a sweet prospect. But he hasnt done anything in the NFL. Two weeks into this year, we were all joking about how meaningless the preseason actually is/was. 

I think its an attraction to the unknown; if guys prove they don't have "it," then we might as well try a guy with little to no career accolades at the position, little experience and a giant learning curve because... they havent proved they can't.

Why not just resign Hieneke? At what point, if ever really, did he prove he won't be a starter some day?

I wouldnt pull Keenum out until he starts letting guys on the team down... i would eye making the switch in game and prepare Keenum week in and out until that happens.

Case couldnt beat the Steelers on the road. The Steelers couldnt beat Chicago. Case beat Chicago. I don't know about comparing wins/losses between our opponents...

...Stafford tossed 3 INTs against the Saints. Is that some kinda of writting on the wall? Their pass defense has been garbage all year... Probably not.

I would roll with Keenum until he puts up a STINKER and we need a shot in the arm. Teddy gets time to shake some rust, Bradford gets more time to heal... go from there.

We are 4-2, we certainly aren't desperate. Its too easy to assume Bradford/Bridgewater WILL win games that Keenum does. The last thing we want to do is make a move that wasnt entirely nessessary and fall below .500...

Food for thought---If Teddy makes it back ---what makes you so sure he'll be at the level he was just prior to his injury(A guy doesn't play for a year + and some think he just steps in at that level.) 

@"BlackMagic7" said: How can Sloter possibly have more upside than Keenum? 

I get he is a sweet prospect. But he hasnt done anything in the NFL. Two weeks into this year, we were all joking about how meaningless the preseason actually is/was. 

I think its an attraction to the unknown; if guys prove they don't have "it," then we might as well try a guy with little to no career accolades at the position, little experience and a giant learning curve because... they havent proved they can't.

Why not just resign Hieneke? At what point, if ever really, did he prove he won't be a starter some day?

I wouldnt pull Keenum out until he starts letting guys on the team down... i would eye making the switch in game and prepare Keenum week in and out until that happens.

Case couldnt beat the Steelers on the road. The Steelers couldnt beat Chicago. Case beat Chicago. I don't know about comparing wins/losses between our opponents...

...Stafford tossed 3 INTs against the Saints. Is that some kinda of writting on the wall? Their pass defense has been garbage all year... Probably not.

I would roll with Keenum until he puts up a STINKER and we need a shot in the arm. Teddy gets time to shake some rust, Bradford gets more time to heal... go from there.

We are 4-2, we certainly aren't desperate. Its too easy to assume Bradford/Bridgewater WILL win games that Keenum does. The last thing we want to do is make a move that wasnt entirely nessessary and fall below .500...

I don't think Case beat Chicago,  the team won with him at QB yes,  but I wouldn't say it was because of his play.  About all I would say in that game was he didn't lose it for us.

I don't think Case is a bad QB,  just no where near consistent enough and is a little sloppy with the football.  He is extremely lucky to only have 1 pick so far this year,  and that kind of luck usually runs out fairly soon.

Sloter might turn out to be absolutely nothing. He might end up back on the practice squad, who knows? Yes, it was a bit flashy for a UDFA when they signed for a nice sum for the PS, but really, they have no real skin in the game for him. He has upside and they needed an arm in practice. But the odds are still against him. I'd love for him to be something more, but I wouldn't bank on it.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"BlackMagic7" said: How can Sloter possibly have more upside than Keenum? 

I get he is a sweet prospect. But he hasnt done anything in the NFL. Two weeks into this year, we were all joking about how meaningless the preseason actually is/was. 

I think its an attraction to the unknown; if guys prove they don't have "it," then we might as well try a guy with little to no career accolades at the position, little experience and a giant learning curve because... they havent proved they can't.

Why not just resign Hieneke? At what point, if ever really, did he prove he won't be a starter some day?

I wouldnt pull Keenum out until he starts letting guys on the team down... i would eye making the switch in game and prepare Keenum week in and out until that happens.

Case couldnt beat the Steelers on the road. The Steelers couldnt beat Chicago. Case beat Chicago. I don't know about comparing wins/losses between our opponents...

...Stafford tossed 3 INTs against the Saints. Is that some kinda of writting on the wall? Their pass defense has been garbage all year... Probably not.

I would roll with Keenum until he puts up a STINKER and we need a shot in the arm. Teddy gets time to shake some rust, Bradford gets more time to heal... go from there.

We are 4-2, we certainly aren't desperate. Its too easy to assume Bradford/Bridgewater WILL win games that Keenum does. The last thing we want to do is make a move that wasnt entirely nessessary and fall below .500...

I don't think Case beat Chicago,  the team won with him at QB yes,  but I wouldn't say it was because of his play.  About all I would say in that game was he didn't lose it for us.

I don't think Case is a bad QB,  just no where near consistent enough and is a little sloppy with the football.  He is extremely lucky to only have 1 pick so far this year,  and that kind of luck usually runs out fairly soon.

@"BlackMagic7" said: How can Sloter possibly have more upside than Keenum? 

I get he is a sweet prospect. But he hasnt done anything in the NFL. Two weeks into this year, we were all joking about how meaningless the preseason actually is/was. 

I think its an attraction to the unknown; if guys prove they don't have "it," then we might as well try a guy with little to no career accolades at the position, little experience and a giant learning curve because... they havent proved they can't.

Why not just resign Hieneke? At what point, if ever really, did he prove he won't be a starter some day?

I wouldnt pull Keenum out until he starts letting guys on the team down... i would eye making the switch in game and prepare Keenum week in and out until that happens.

Case couldnt beat the Steelers on the road. The Steelers couldnt beat Chicago. Case beat Chicago. I don't know about comparing wins/losses between our opponents...

...Stafford tossed 3 INTs against the Saints. Is that some kinda of writting on the wall? Their pass defense has been garbage all year... Probably not.

I would roll with Keenum until he puts up a STINKER and we need a shot in the arm. Teddy gets time to shake some rust, Bradford gets more time to heal... go from there.

We are 4-2, we certainly aren't desperate. Its too easy to assume Bradford/Bridgewater WILL win games that Keenum does. The last thing we want to do is make a move that wasnt entirely nessessary and fall below .500...

He has more "upside" because we already know what Case's ceiling is.  Now, "upside" is another word for "potential".  I don't think there is any doubt that Sloter has more "potential" than Case (because we already know who/what Case is).  BUT that doesn't mean that he actually WILL be better than Sloter.  That's why it's called "potential" (and the "upside" is that he has a stronger arm than Case).

@"JimmyinSD" said: I don't think Case beat Chicago,  the team won with him at QB yes,  but I wouldn't say it was because of his play.  About all I would say in that game was he didn't lose it for us.

I don't think Case is a bad QB,  just no where near consistent enough and is a little sloppy with the football.  He is extremely lucky to only have 1 pick so far this year,  and that kind of luck usually runs out fairly soon.

Man I don't know about that. Case came in and instantly it was a different ballgame. Had case been in the game from the get go I think that game is not nearly as ugly. 

I'm not a millionaire. But I got potential. I am going to go try and spend some of that potential this afternoon. maybe stop by the Mercedes dealer. I'll let you guys know how the new car drives. 

My view from afar...you have a winning horse, albeit a backup, in Keenum.  Call him what you want, but I'd rather have him than Trent Dilfer in his prime.  Now THAT was a game manager.
Bradford might be done...for his career.  I hate to hear or think of that.  It's just reality.
Bridgewater hasn't played in a game for over a year and a half.  He would have rust, without question.  Why would you switch horses if your current horse is winning?
I think we are in a superb position...literally three starting NFL quarterbacks whose destiny we control.  And Sloter has shown intriguing promise before the Donkos cut him.
The decision does not have to be made today, but in slightly less than three weeks (when the decision on Bridgewater being put on the roster needs to happen).  
If Keenum falters between now and then, that is one thing.  If we pick up two more Ws, that's another thing.
Why the rush to make a decision (or even a prognostication) when it doesn't have to be made yet?  Patience team...let it play out.  

My only question is about tolling Bridgewater and how it impacts him making the roster or getting that extra "prove it" year.

@"BlackMagic7" said: How can Sloter possibly have more upside than Keenum? 

I get he is a sweet prospect. But he hasnt done anything in the NFL. Two weeks into this year, we were all joking about how meaningless the preseason actually is/was. 

I think its an attraction to the unknown; if guys prove they don't have "it," then we might as well try a guy with little to no career accolades at the position, little experience and a giant learning curve because... they havent proved they can't.

Why not just resign Hieneke? At what point, if ever really, did he prove he won't be a starter some day?

I wouldnt pull Keenum out until he starts letting guys on the team down... i would eye making the switch in game and prepare Keenum week in and out until that happens.

Case couldnt beat the Steelers on the road. The Steelers couldnt beat Chicago. Case beat Chicago. I don't know about comparing wins/losses between our opponents...

...Stafford tossed 3 INTs against the Saints. Is that some kinda of writting on the wall? Their pass defense has been garbage all year... Probably not.

I would roll with Keenum until he puts up a STINKER and we need a shot in the arm. Teddy gets time to shake some rust, Bradford gets more time to heal... go from there.

We are 4-2, we certainly aren't desperate. Its too easy to assume Bradford/Bridgewater WILL win games that Keenum does. The last thing we want to do is make a move that wasnt entirely nessessary and fall below .500...

I don't think anyone would argue that Sloter would be a better option than Case right now. He needs time. But the upside is there: 6-4, 220, rocket arm, mobile, adjusts really well in the pocket, can throw accurately inside and outside the pocket. Throws with better accuracy and velocity rolling left than anyone I've seen since Kaepernick. Physically, he's a prototype. After getting a lot of sleeper buzz during draft season, he came to Denver and Lit it up in the preseason and got paid some serious money to come play for the Vikings. He's extremely raw, probably won't be ready for a year or two, but there's no denying the upside. 

Not a lot of upside with Keenum. He's a smallish guy and his arm strength is terrible. That said, I've always felt that arm strength is the most overrated quality in a QB. My problem with Keenum is his consistency. He can be deadly accurate one minute and then throw a ridiculously bad pass then next. That lack of consistency is probably why he hasn't become a full-time starter in the NFL. 

I'd probably let Case play through the bye to get Teddy some practice time, but it's Teddy's team after that. 

@"Mike Olson" said: I'm not a millionaire. But I got potential. I am going to go try and spend some of that potential this afternoon. maybe stop by the Mercedes dealer. I'll let you guys know how the new car drives. 

You can't buy a Mercedes with potential, but potential isn't completely worthless either. For example, if I were investing in people, I'd probably put more money on you than my brother in law, who has serious financial weaknesses. That, and he's an asshole. 

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I don't think Case beat Chicago,  the team won with him at QB yes,  but I wouldn't say it was because of his play.  About all I would say in that game was he didn't lose it for us.

I don't think Case is a bad QB,  just no where near consistent enough and is a little sloppy with the football.  He is extremely lucky to only have 1 pick so far this year,  and that kind of luck usually runs out fairly soon.

Man I don't know about that. Case came in and instantly it was a different ballgame. Had case been in the game from the get go I think that game is not nearly as ugly. 

@"SFVikingFan" said:

You could probably level the same criticisms at Teddy to be honest.  Teddy is probably more accurate, but I think Case has the stronger arm and I've seen him go deep a decent amount this year.  Plus Case has only played two more games in the NFL than Teddy, so it's possible that he has not yet hit his ceiling yet either.

I just think he's shown enough so far this year that he will probably be a starter somewhere next year.  Maybe just as a stopgap QB, but there are definitely some teams out there with much worse starting QBs right now than Case.

Not really.  IMO, if we have Teddy in the Detroit game, we win.  I love that we have Case right now, love his enthusiasm and moxy.  Much better than the older than the Hills we had last year.

But IMO, part of this stat sez something about the O-line, maybe just as much as it does about Keenum.  Just cuz we face a blitz this year doesn't mean the blitz gets through. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

Not a lot of upside with Keenum. He's a smallish guy and his arm strength is terrible. That said, I've always felt that arm strength is the most overrated quality in a QB. I'd probably let Case play through the bye to get Teddy some practice time, but it's Teddy's team after that. 

Derek Carr 2017: 5 games, 5 starts. 924 passing yards. 8 TDs. 4 INTs. 9 sacks. 2-3 record.

Case Keenum 2017: 5 games, 4 starts. 1,134 yards. 5 TDs. 1 INT. 4 sacks. 3-2 record.

----

Teddy 2015: 5 games, 5 starts. 1,023 yards. 3 TDs, 4 INTs. 15 sacks. 3-2 record.

Not sure what that means, but it's accurate...

@"BlackMagic7" said: Derek Carr 2017: 5 games, 5 starts. 924 passing yards. 8 TDs. 4 INTs. 9 sacks. 2-3 record.

Case Keenum 2017: 5 games, 4 starts. 1,134 yards. 5 TDs. 1 INT. 4 sacks. 3-2 record.

----

Teddy 2015: 5 games, 5 starts. 1,023 yards. 3 TDs, 4 INTs. 15 sacks. 3-2 record.

Not sure what that means, but it's accurate...

It means Case beat a toothless Bucs Defense and 3rd String Packer DBs and lost to a Lions Defense at home missing its entire LB Corps. Oh, and against two QBs with what, zero regular season snaps?

All while playing behind a far better O-Line with much better WRs and for an OC that isn't calling 7 step drops every other play like Teddy dealt with. 

C O N T E X T

@"FSUVike" said:

@"BlackMagic7" said: Derek Carr 2017: 5 games, 5 starts. 924 passing yards. 8 TDs. 4 INTs. 9 sacks. 2-3 record.

Case Keenum 2017: 5 games, 4 starts. 1,134 yards. 5 TDs. 1 INT. 4 sacks. 3-2 record.

----

Teddy 2015: 5 games, 5 starts. 1,023 yards. 3 TDs, 4 INTs. 15 sacks. 3-2 record.

Not sure what that means, but it's accurate...

It means Case beat a toothless Bucs Defense and 3rd String Packer DBs and lost to a Lions Defense at home missing its entire LB Corps. Oh, and against two QBs with what, zero regular season snaps?

All while playing behind a far better O-Line with much better WRs and for an OC that isn't calling 7 step drops every other play like Teddy dealt with. 

C O N T E X T

@"Mike Olson" said: I'm not a millionaire. But I got potential. I am going to go try and spend some of that potential this afternoon. maybe stop by the Mercedes dealer. I'll let you guys know how the new car drives. 

So... if you had the chance to buy Apple stock back in 1980... you would have let that opportunity go because you already had stock in MCI Worldcom?