Bradford's "unloader brace"

IMO Zimmer looked at the schedule and decided Monday was a "win at any cost" game. He thought about facing the Packers after losing to the Lions and Bears, his team embarassed on MNF, and likely losing to GB and then probably Baltimore, too. He would have been 2-5 on a 4-game losing streak and 0-3 in the division...and heading to London with a slumping team. Get surprised by the Browns (London games are unpredictable) and he might have been fired on the plane home.

So he identified Chicago as the "most winnable" game and told Sam he better get back on the field ASAP. Or maybe Sam was asking to play, maybe had been for the past two weeks despite being hampered, and Zimmer gave in. Unless you believe that Sam looked just fine in practice but spontaneously regressed at game time, it doesn't seem like Zimmer acted like a head coach thinking of the best LONG-TERM interests of the franchise.

and if he didn't play, what would the storyline here?  Zimmer was too scared, didn't care about monday night, only wants to beat the packers.

People will see whatever they are looking for.  Bradford was healthy enough to start, so he did.  He was rusty and sailed some passes and then got hurt again on a sack. 

But the Zimmer bashing gets rather old IMO.

We won in chicago, we have GB at home.  We are 3-2 with a chance to take the division lead.

@"Jor-El" said: IMO Zimmer looked at the schedule and decided Monday was a "win at any cost" game. He thought about facing the Packers after losing to the Lions and Bears, his team embarassed on MNF, and likely losing to GB and then probably Baltimore, too. He would have been 2-5 on a 4-game losing streak and 0-3 in the division...and heading to London with a slumping team. Get surprised by the Browns (London games are unpredictable) and he might have been fired on the plane home.

So he identified Chicago as the "most winnable" game and told Sam he better get back on the field ASAP. Or maybe Sam was asking to play, maybe had been for the past two weeks despite being hampered, and Zimmer gave in. Unless you believe that Sam looked just fine in practice but spontaneously regressed at game time, it doesn't seem like Zimmer acted like a head coach thinking of the best LONG-TERM interests of the franchise.

Geez that's a negative take.  Assuming losses to the Bears, Packers and Ravens, even losing to the Browns?  Zimmer getting fired on the way back from London?

Every single sentence in your post is just pure speculation.  I'm not understanding all of the criticism of Zimmer lately.  Like Bradford stated throughout the week, he felt much better, thought he could give it a go, so the team gave him a shot until it was obvious that he wasn't effective and pulled him out of the game.  I don't think it has to go any deeper than that.

Souhan and Yotter had an interesting comment in their Scout Podcast this week following the game that Zimmer is losing momentum rapidly with the fan base. Not sure how they can measure that but he seems to be making decisions that might indicate he has been put on notice that a repeat of last year will not be tolerated and that he and his staff are on a short leash. It would also support the Teddy situation that they plan to activate him rather than keep him on IR and toll his contract. If he is in a win now at all costs situation and his job depends on it, he isn't going to care about the long term interests of the franchise if he can survive another year. As many people have said, he won't get another Head Coaching job after this one. 

souhan taking a negative take?  Hard to believe.  And based purely on speculation.  Some in the media are probably still pissed that Zimmer didn't invite them to his home in Kentucky.  Losing momentum with fan base?  Most fans fluctuate based on wins and losses.  After NO win, we were going to the superbowl.  After Steelers loss, it was Zimmers fault that his QB got hurt and Spielman's fault for everything.  After Bucs win, all was right with the world, Keenum was suddenly a pro-bowler.  After Detroit loss, he was a bum and we needed Sam back STAT!  Sam plays and struggles, now Zim is a fool and selfish.

Sheesh.  I love the predictions about Zim's future with the Vikings and elsewhere.  As if anyone actually has a clue.

@"TBro" said: Souhan and Yotter had an interesting comment in their Scout Podcast this week following the game that Zimmer is losing momentum rapidly with the fan base. Not sure how they can measure that but he seems to be making decisions that might indicate he has been put on notice that a repeat of last year will not be tolerated and that he and his staff are on a short leash. It would also support the Teddy situation that they plan to activate him rather than keep him on IR and toll his contract. If he is in a win now at all costs situation and his job depends on it, he isn't going to care about the long term interests of the franchise if he can survive another year. As many people have said, he won't get another Head Coaching job after this one. 

So after a tough division win on the road, down 2 or 3 (Diggs) of the offense's biggest playmakers, and the Scout Podcast talks about Zimmer losing support among the fans?  Sounds about right for the MN sports media.

And again, this is all negatively slanted speculation.  We knee-jerk and fire Zimmer, and we become that much closer to the Browns IMO.  Like greediron mentioned above, we are 3-2 and playing for the division lead this weekend FFS.

@"greediron" said: and if he didn't play, what would the storyline here?  Zimmer was too scared, didn't care about monday night, only wants to beat the packers.

People will see whatever they are looking for.  Bradford was healthy enough to start, so he did.  He was rusty and sailed some passes and then got hurt again on a sack. 

But the Zimmer bashing gets rather old IMO.

We won in chicago, we have GB at home.  We are 3-2 with a chance to take the division lead.

Aren't you seeing whatever you are looking for? If you think Bradford was "healthy enough to start", I guess we will have to agree to disagree. He wasn't following through on his passes and that was from the opening snap not because Zimmer said he got injured on a tackle. He either couldn't or didn't feel comfortable putting weight on that left knee which screwed up his mechanics and forced the errant throws. The unloader knee brace he had to wear only reinforces that his knee was still a problem and that he was not "healthy enough". I do agree with your last sentence and hopefully Keenum can get it done on Sunday. 

At this point it's gotta be in SB's head that he's too fragile to ever feel comfortable out there.  I think the days of him being relaxed and in the groove, like week one, are over, he's got an irreparable  knee injury to the brain.  

@"TBro" said:

@"greediron" said: and if he didn't play, what would the storyline here?  Zimmer was too scared, didn't care about monday night, only wants to beat the packers.

People will see whatever they are looking for.  Bradford was healthy enough to start, so he did.  He was rusty and sailed some passes and then got hurt again on a sack. 

But the Zimmer bashing gets rather old IMO.

We won in chicago, we have GB at home.  We are 3-2 with a chance to take the division lead.

Aren't you seeing whatever you are looking for? If you think Bradford was "healthy enough to start", I guess we will have to agree to disagree. He wasn't following through on his passes and that was from the opening snap not because Zimmer said he got injured on a tackle. He either couldn't or didn't feel comfortable putting weight on that left knee which screwed up his mechanics and forced the errant throws. The unloader knee brace he had to wear only reinforces that his knee was still a problem and that he was not "healthy enough". I do agree with your last sentence and hopefully Keenum can get it done on Sunday. 

Coming off a loss to a very good Lions team, was Zimmer thinking part of the problem was lack of good QB play? Was he thinking if we had Sam even at 60%, he'd be better than Keenum? Coaches always say they put the guys out there that are going to give the team the best chance to win. A blind man could see that Sam was a shell of what he was week 1.

So what was it? The Bears are probably a worse team than Tampa Bay, who Case Torched. Why put a hurting Sam out there with a contraption on his knee? Makes no sense to me.

Lots of guys play with knee braces that do various things for them.

 some of you are looking way too much into this and trying to find a reason to hate on Zimmer. 

Jfc,  

Souhan is a troll. Does he ever write anything positive? I don't believe for a minute he is losing momentum with the fan base. Wtf! Sam was evaluated by the medical staff before the game. It was agreed that he would give it a go. Some people would say he was soft if he didn't play and he was being coddled. The only way they could find out for sure if Sam was ok was to have him play. Clearly he was not. He was limited in practice but if there was any indication before game time that he couldn't go, he wouldn't have played. I don't see Coach Zimmer as desparate either. He is not the guy that is going to put a player in jeopardy. I feel bad for Sam and wish him the best. I don't understand all the hate for Zimmer either. Sam is not the first player to play with a brace and he won't be the last. 

@"JimmyinSD" said: Lots of guys play with knee braces that do various things for them.

 some of you are looking way too much into this and trying to find a reason to hate on Zimmer. 

Jfc,  

Souhan heard a new word and conjured up some witches brew to figure out how he could run it into a negative story. 

News flash: coaches don't force players to play.

Zimmer quoted saying, "I just thought it was best for him that we got him out there. He didn't want to come out, he wanted to stay in there and fight."

Fold the argument into Zimmer should have known better all you want. If Bradford goes to the media and says "I could have played," people would be wondering what and the **** is wrong with Zimmer for making that kind of call, against a bad Bears team.

... Keenum played like crap against the Lions, remember? Nobody was pounding the table for him to keep playing. No one here questioned Bradford playing against Chicago ONCE. NOT once.

------

... what and the hell was Bradford's agent thinking? lol...

@"JimmyinSD" said: Lots of guys play with knee braces that do various things for them.

 some of you are looking way too much into this and trying to find a reason to hate on Zimmer. 

Jfc,  

And some of you are very quick to dismiss any criticism of a HC who just improved to 2-8 against Division Opponents.

Look, my dad is 72 and a lifelong Vikings fan. He called me after the first series and asked what the heck.Sam was doing in the Game if he was still so gimpy.

And you could see it. That was not visual evidence of a guy that had full practices. That looked like a guy hoping his knee was ready,not knowing it was.

Couple that with Stefania Bell on ESPN's Fantasy Show saying she heard Bradford was limited in practice all week long and it leads to legitimate questions. 

I know the 'knee-jerk' reaction (see what I did there) is to say what does ESPN know. But the folks on that show have a large audience of FFL viewers to advise and it's in their best interests to be as accurate as possible. Especially when advising to sit someone on your FFL.Team due to injury.

I know what I saw. Sam didn't trust that knee and absolutely did not look like a guy who got a lot of reps in practice to shake the rust off.

Which then begs a legitimate and logical question. Who O.K.'d him starting? Did Sam convince the Training Staff and Zimmer trusted their judgement? Which would be perfectly legit.

Did Zimmer force the issue? Did Sam look better but maybe tweaked something in warm-ups, didn't mention it and figured he'd play through it? 

I'm not here to argue anyone's toughness. It's legalized gladiator fighting. 

But shouting down posters with legitimate questions about who made the decision to start a gimpy, rusty QB that still has a lot of questions about his future with the team strikes me as being incredibly close-minded.

unloaders minimize bone / bone contact. But the NCAA also uses them to reduce soft tissue damage (lig. / tendons)

Either way, Bradford has to weigh "quality of life" decisions for life after football.

Bummer, was really hoping we found our guy.

@"Vikergirl" said: Souhan is a troll. Does he ever write anything positive? I don't believe for a minute he is losing momentum with the fan base. Wtf! Sam was evaluated by the medical staff before the game. It was agreed that he would give it a go. Some people would say he was soft if he didn't play and he was being coddled. The only way they could find out for sure if Sam was ok was to have him play. Clearly he was not. He was limited in practice but if there was any indication before game time that he couldn't go, he wouldn't have played. I don't see Coach Zimmer as desparate either. He is not the guy that is going to put a player in jeopardy. I feel bad for Sam and wish him the best. I don't understand all the hate for Zimmer either. Sam is not the first player to play with a brace and he won't be the last. 

Jor-El had some strong opinions or speculation, but "Zimmer Hate", "Zimmer Bashing", etc. that has been mentioned in this thread is a bit extreme, emotional, and defensive and I continue to see it in other threads as well. In my original post, I didn't mention Zimmer at all. For all we know, Ziggy, Mark, Spielman, etc. all could have been putting pressure on Zimmer and the Coaching Staff to get him out there. Bradford himself could have lied to Sugarman and the Coaches that he was free of pain and ready to go. Bradford is a competitive guy. I haven't and won't question his toughness after he got pounded repeatedly last year with our putrid offensive line so I don't understand why so many of you feel like you have to come running to Zimmer's defense. Can't we have a rational discussion without members of the Longship being accused of having a nefarious agenda? We have enough divisiveness in this country driven by the Main Stream Media, TPTB, etc. we don't need more of it here.   

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Lots of guys play with knee braces that do various things for them.

 some of you are looking way too much into this and trying to find a reason to hate on Zimmer. 

Jfc,  

And some of you are very quick to dismiss any criticism of a HC who just improved to 2-8 against Division Opponents.

Look, my dad is 72 and a lifelong Vikings fan. He called me after the first series and asked what the heck.Sam was doing in the Game if he was still so gimpy.

And you could see it. That was not visual evidence of a guy that had full practices. That looked like a guy hoping his knee was ready,not knowing it was.

Couple that with Stefania Bell on ESPN's Fantasy Show saying she heard Bradford was limited in practice all week long and it leads to legitimate questions. 

I know the 'knee-jerk' reaction (see what I did there) is to say what does ESPN know. But the folks on that show have a large audience of FFL viewers to advise and it's in their best interests to be as accurate as possible. Especially when advising to sit someone on your FFL.Team due to injury.

I know what I saw. Sam didn't trust that knee and absolutely did not look like a guy who got a lot of reps in practice to shake the rust off.

Which then begs a legitimate and logical question. Who O.K.'d him starting? Did Sam convince the Training Staff and Zimmer trusted their judgement? Which would be perfectly legit.

Did Zimmer force the issue? Did Sam look better but maybe tweaked something in warm-ups, didn't mention it and figured he'd play through it? 

I'm not here to argue anyone's toughness. It's legalized gladiator fighting. 

But shouting down posters with legitimate questions about who made the decision to start a gimpy, rusty QB that still has a lot of questions about his future with the team strikes me as being incredibly close-minded.

The national media has been all over this, saying that the Vikings have jeopardized Bradford's career by sending him out before he was ready, that the Vikings are irresponsible....yada, yada, yada....It's BS. I can guarantee that if we had lost that game with Keenum playing from start to finish then the media would proclaim the Vikings the stupidest bunch of SOBs in the NFL for sitting Bradford for a game that he was ready to play. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
To the media: Just give me the FACTS. I don't give a duck or a goose's dingle about your opinion.

@"NodakViking" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

And some of you are very quick to dismiss any criticism of a HC who just improved to 2-8 against Division Opponents.

Where did you come up with that?  9-11 overall in 3.3 years after a 1-5 rookie year that is 8-6 since then. 

Maybe it was a mutual decision by all parties to give it a go,  as it is Sam likely has a degenerative condition in his knee and will need to learn to play with that brace the rest of his years like Palmer or get microfracture surgery.  It think it's pretty clear from circumstantial evidence he has bone on bone which likely means he has damaged meniscus in that knee-the only way to "replace" it is microfracture surgery or knee replacement.  The other option is to use that  brace and deal with the problem until your career is over then get a replacement joint later in life.

His best bet if he wants to play 6-8 more years is go on IR(designated for return) and do what he can to fix the knee.