Stick with Wentz or back to JJM?
It'll be a talker for the next few weeks, like it or not...
I'm in the camp of JJM and dont see this as a real issue to decide.
I say lets see what we got in JJ and hopefully he is 100% post bye...
==========================
LONDON – The Vikings enter the bye week with three fascinating quarterbacks and a fascinating quandary. At least, that’s what it looks like from the outside.
But there is a reason the Vikings’ decisionmaking in this instance is easy to predict and inherently logical, even if their likely decision won’t necessarily be immediately popular with their fan base.
First, let’s take a realistic look at their current three quarterbacks.
Carson Wentz
He orchestrated a remarkable game-winning drive on Sunday in London. He is 2-1 as a starter, and his loss occurred in a game that was lost as much because of poor offensive line play and an inability to stop the Steelers’ previously mediocre offense as it was because of Wentz’s play.
Give him high grades for being a quality backup, a tough human and an admirable competitor.
J.J. McCarthy
He’s played eight NFL quarters. He has played well in one of them. He remains an awkward match for a veteran roster trying to win big this season. He is also a top-10 draft pick with obvious talent and a championship pedigree.
Max Brosmer
Is he this year’s version of Gino Torretta? Remember Gino Torretta? The Vikings spent a seventh-round draft pick on him in 1993. He won two national titles at Miami and is a member of the college football Hall of Fame, and he looked like the Vikings’ best quarterback during the 1993 preseason. He would throw a total of five passes, completing one, in NFL regular-season games.
Give Brosmer this: He looks like an NFL quarterback when he’s standing on the sideline. He’s a big, strong guy with arm talent who has demonstrated composure when given a chance to play.
If fans were running the Vikings, they might be tempted to stick with Wentz, who is probably better equipped to play behind a mangled offensive line at this point in his career than either of the youngsters.
And there will be many who admired Brosmer’s play for the Gophers and in this preseason, and will want him to get a shot.
This is where a reminder is in order.
If all the Vikings wanted at their quarterback position was efficient passing (which Brosmer might provide), they would have kept Kirk Cousins. If all the Vikings wanted at their quarterback position was a veteran who could run their offense, they would have kept Sam Darnold.
They cut Cousins and Darnold loose because their goal is to win a Super Bowl, and they believe the best way to achieve that goal is to develop a talented youngster who will be around and affordable for years.
That’s McCarthy.
McCarthy has a high ankle sprain. He may not be fully ready to play coming out of the bye, and it would be foolish to play him until he is healthy and playing behind a relatively healthy offensive line.
But he is the Vikings’ quarterback.
You don’t draft someone with a top-10 pick, then give up on him because he looked overmatched in one game. He’s the Vikings most athletic quarterback, and he has already shown the ability to rally a team to victory on the road under difficult circumstances.
McCarthy should return when he’s ready, regardless of how Wentz plays or Brosmer looks when we get a glimpse of him.
Consider this: McCarthy played 40 games at Michigan and won a national title while playing for Jim Harbaugh, one of the world’s best quarterback coaches.
Then he spent a year studying Kevin O’Connell’s offense from the sideline while injured.
If he looked unready to take on the massive responsibilities of an NFL starting quarterback at the beginning of his second season, how could Brosmer, who played one year of major college football, at Minnesota, be ready?
Probably the best way to look at this “competition” is this: None of these three are going to win a Super Bowl this year.
So this year should be about developing McCarthy, while hoping he can also win games. Wentz has played admirably and Brosmer is intriguing, but McCarthy is the future, and nothing that has happened this season has changed that.
STRIB
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
if JJM is back at practice, which he was reported to have been this last week, then he should be presumed to be healthy enough to go in 2 weeks. right now IMO the assumption is he will be starting against the iggles.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
Wentz if you want to win a few extra games maybe make the playoffs and ultimately go no where and make players happier.
JJ if you want to figure out if he is the future or not.
Answer JJ (don't like it) take your lumps and see what you have. If experiment fails start over next year
We gotta give the team back to JJ. Not just to find out what we have, but because I believe he has a higher upside than Wentz. Wentz is good enough to win us 8 games. We just don't really know yet what McCarthy is capable of. We have to remember, he did what he did (and didn't do) with a sieve at left tackle. When he got time, he flashed. I want to see if he can start stitching some of those flashes together with a healthy offensive line in front of him.
MaroonBells wrote:
We gotta give the team back to JJ. Not just to find out what we have, but because I believe he has a higher upside than Wentz. Wentz is good enough to win us 8 games. We just don't really know yet what McCarthy is capable of. We have to remember, he did what he did (and didn't do) with a sieve at left tackle. When he got time, he flashed. I want to see if he can start stitching some of those flashes together with a healthy offensive line in front of him.
^^^
I'll have to settle for healthier this year...I dont know what we can realistically expect from Kelly anymore?
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
When I posted this question back after week 2, many thought I was nuts. No way JJ gets benched! But the premise was and still is this question, is he ready to lead the team on the field? The injury was legit, but it did give the coaches a chance to see the offense under Wentz.
I am in the camp of taking our lumps with JJ as well. I think he is the future, and if not, we need to find out. The bigger question is whether KOC has learned to adjust his offense to include the quick game? I think he has confidence in the run game now, but will he allow his QB to get on track with an early start to the quick passes? I think that is more of what JJ needs than to hold the clipboard.
purplefaithful wrote:
^^^
I'll have to settle for healthier this year...I dont know what we can realistically expect from Kelly anymore?
I think the decision to go on IR and miss 4 games means he's taking a good, long break, but fully intending to return. I think if he were going to retire, he would've retired last week.
I was reading about concussions the other day and, supposedly, your brain is significantly more vulnerable to concussion shortly after another one. IOW, it's not just a random thing. So I think he just wants to rest his brain a bit and see what happens.
The answer is clearly JJM. The answer is not the backup QB, who’s on his 6th team in 6 years. JJM has had 2 games. That’s not a reasonable amount of time to judge any QB, especially a first time starter in the NFL. I have a hard time taking this question seriously, because if the Vikings actually followed the strategy of devoting a ton of resources to getting a rookie QB and then shitcanning them after their first 2 games, I need to GTFO of being a fan of the team.
greediron wrote:
When I posted this question back after week 2, many thought I was nuts. No way JJ gets benched! But the premise was and still is this question, is he ready to lead the team on the field? The injury was legit, but it did give the coaches a chance to see the offense under Wentz.I am in the camp of taking our lumps with JJ as well. I think he is the future, and if not, we need to find out. The bigger question is whether KOC has learned to adjust his offense to include the quick game? I think he has confidence in the run game now, but will he allow his QB to get on track with an early start to the quick passes? I think that is more of what JJ needs than to hold the clipboard.
Almost no rookie QB is ready to lead an NFL offense. There is no way to simulate a real game for them. They can’t get hit in practice. Their receivers can’t get in hit in practice. They only get to really practice against their own defense. The schemes they face in a real game, and the speed of the players on defense is so far beyond what they’ve encountered before. There is just no way to prepare them for what they will see. Even a guy like Jordan Love, who had 3 seasons to prepare, needed several games to start looking like a starter. IMO, you really need to dedicate some amount of games to the cause of developing your QB and just expect a chunk of those to be losses and hope the learning curve is quick.
We definitely need to keep the quick game!
medaille wrote:
Almost no rookie QB is ready to lead an NFL offense. There is no way to simulate a real game for them. They can’t get hit in practice. Their receivers can’t get in hit in practice. They only get to really practice against their own defense. The schemes they face in a real game, and the speed of the players on defense is so far beyond what they’ve encountered before. There is just no way to prepare them for what they will see. Even a guy like Jordan Love, who had 3 seasons to prepare, needed several games to start looking like a starter. IMO, you really need to dedicate some amount of games to the cause of developing your QB and just expect a chunk of those to be losses and hope the learning curve is quick.
We definitely need to keep the quick game!
Agreed, but IMO what it did was expose the playcalling as the issue instead of pinning it on a young QB. The injury may work in JJ's favor if KOC has properly adjusted his playcalling.
greediron wrote:
When I posted this question back after week 2, many thought I was nuts. No way JJ gets benched! But the premise was and still is this question, is he ready to lead the team on the field? The injury was legit, but it did give the coaches a chance to see the offense under Wentz.I am in the camp of taking our lumps with JJ as well. I think he is the future, and if not, we need to find out. The bigger question is whether KOC has learned to adjust his offense to include the quick game? I think he has confidence in the run game now, but will he allow his QB to get on track with an early start to the quick passes? I think that is more of what JJ needs than to hold the clipboard.
Agree. Necessity is the mother of invention, right? Vikings were 4 OL down, which I don't think I've EVER seen, and so KOC was forced to install a quick game against one of the best pass rushes in the NFL. It worked. But I agree that maybe this should be a part of our regular offense moving forward. Take some of the stress off your offensive linemen, let the QB gain some confidence with some high-percentage stuff early, and then expand as you go. I always thought that was a part of every offensive strategy, but it sure hasn't been with KOC.
MaroonBells wrote:
Agree. Necessity is the mother of invention, right? Vikings were 4 OL down, which I don't think I've EVER seen, and so KOC was forced to install a quick game against one of the best pass rushes in the NFL. It worked. But I agree that maybe this should be a part of our regular offense moving forward. Take some of the stress off your offensive linemen, let the QB gain some confidence with some high-percentage stuff early, and then expand as you go. I always thought that was a part of every offensive strategy, but it sure hasn't been with KOC.
it used to be we are going to wear them out by taking what they give us, then in the later part of the game we will dictate the style when their dogs are tired. get JJM back and get him on the move, designed roll outs to help slow the interior pass rush, our screen game hasnt looked the best lately but that needs to improve, once again to slow the pass rush, and our OL needs to get nasty in finishing their blocks in the run game, treat those DL andn LBS like their name is Garrett Bradbury!
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
My initial thought with the next game being against the Eagles is that I would not want that to be his first game back and also like the idea of seeing Wentz go against his former team, however after the Eagles we have the Chargers and Harbaugh who is going to have his defense ready for JJ, then Detroit and Baltimore, so there is going to be no best idea game for him to come back. Not sure there could be a more challenging schedule for a first year QB. I have definitely been all in on JJ and agree we need to see what we have, but I think Wentz has done a good job and would continue to improve, so would not be overly disappointed if we stayed that route for now.
Not sure its even a talker. It should and will be JJ
Canthony wrote:
Not sure its even a talker. It will be JJ
The starter will definitely be JJ as soon as he has fully recovered. Team needs JJ to experience many live NFL games and prove his mettle. Will he be the future? Time will tell. IMO, Wentz likely wins more regular season games this year than JJ but he (Wentz) is not the expected future QB of this team. Thus, we ride with JJ, hopefully it's a good ride!
For me its 100% McCarthy for obvious reasons mentioned ad nauseam. This isn't a Superbowl team. Wentz has performed adequately and he's been a very good QB2, I'm happy the guy is enjoying this gig so much being a former Viking's fan. But as soon as JJM is healthy enough for KOC's taste, lets saddle up and give him the essential reps. Wentz has only so much in the tank, he's an old 32 years old. Minnesota is his 5th team in as many years. Nobody is investing in Carson Wentz stock as a starter and neither should Minnesota. Its only fodder for the engagement Twitter fanboys.
purplefaithful wrote:
It'll be a talker for the next few weeks, like it or not...I'm in the camp of JJM and dont see this as a real issue to decide.
I say lets see what we got in JJ and hopefully he is 100% post bye...
==========================
LONDON – The Vikings enter the bye week with three fascinating quarterbacks and a fascinating quandary. At least, that’s what it looks like from the outside.But there is a reason the Vikings’ decisionmaking in this instance is easy to predict and inherently logical, even if their likely decision won’t necessarily be immediately popular with their fan base.
First, let’s take a realistic look at their current three quarterbacks.
Carson Wentz
He orchestrated a remarkable game-winning drive on Sunday in London. He is 2-1 as a starter, and his loss occurred in a game that was lost as much because of poor offensive line play and an inability to stop the Steelers’ previously mediocre offense as it was because of Wentz’s play.
Give him high grades for being a quality backup, a tough human and an admirable competitor.J.J. McCarthy
He’s played eight NFL quarters. He has played well in one of them. He remains an awkward match for a veteran roster trying to win big this season. He is also a top-10 draft pick with obvious talent and a championship pedigree.Max Brosmer
Is he this year’s version of Gino Torretta? Remember Gino Torretta? The Vikings spent a seventh-round draft pick on him in 1993. He won two national titles at Miami and is a member of the college football Hall of Fame, and he looked like the Vikings’ best quarterback during the 1993 preseason. He would throw a total of five passes, completing one, in NFL regular-season games.Give Brosmer this: He looks like an NFL quarterback when he’s standing on the sideline. He’s a big, strong guy with arm talent who has demonstrated composure when given a chance to play.
If fans were running the Vikings, they might be tempted to stick with Wentz, who is probably better equipped to play behind a mangled offensive line at this point in his career than either of the youngsters.
And there will be many who admired Brosmer’s play for the Gophers and in this preseason, and will want him to get a shot.
This is where a reminder is in order.
If all the Vikings wanted at their quarterback position was efficient passing (which Brosmer might provide), they would have kept Kirk Cousins. If all the Vikings wanted at their quarterback position was a veteran who could run their offense, they would have kept Sam Darnold.
They cut Cousins and Darnold loose because their goal is to win a Super Bowl, and they believe the best way to achieve that goal is to develop a talented youngster who will be around and affordable for years.
That’s McCarthy.
McCarthy has a high ankle sprain. He may not be fully ready to play coming out of the bye, and it would be foolish to play him until he is healthy and playing behind a relatively healthy offensive line.
But he is the Vikings’ quarterback.
You don’t draft someone with a top-10 pick, then give up on him because he looked overmatched in one game. He’s the Vikings most athletic quarterback, and he has already shown the ability to rally a team to victory on the road under difficult circumstances.
McCarthy should return when he’s ready, regardless of how Wentz plays or Brosmer looks when we get a glimpse of him.
Consider this: McCarthy played 40 games at Michigan and won a national title while playing for Jim Harbaugh, one of the world’s best quarterback coaches.
Then he spent a year studying Kevin O’Connell’s offense from the sideline while injured.
If he looked unready to take on the massive responsibilities of an NFL starting quarterback at the beginning of his second season, how could Brosmer, who played one year of major college football, at Minnesota, be ready?
Probably the best way to look at this “competition” is this: None of these three are going to win a Super Bowl this year.
So this year should be about developing McCarthy, while hoping he can also win games. Wentz has played admirably and Brosmer is intriguing, but McCarthy is the future, and nothing that has happened this season has changed that.
STRIB
I know you said "win" but there have been less talented QBs playing in Superbowls than the ones we have now.
MaroonBells wrote:Yep, you see it with boxers and MMA fighters. Chuck Liddell, Rhonda Rousey, etc. who had great careers in that sport just couldn't stay in bouts longer than a few minutes at the end of their careers because any punch of force to the head gave them a concussion. Knocked them out. Not even that hard of hits. Liddell was a striker and he got knocked out SO many times the last 6-7 bouts he was in, sad really. I'd be shocked if Ryan Kelly didn't retire after this year.
I was reading about concussions the other day and, supposedly, your brain is significantly more vulnerable to concussion shortly after another one. IOW, it's not just a random thing. So I think he just wants to rest his brain a bit and see what happens.
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