Stick with Wentz or back to JJM?

medaille wrote:
The answer is clearly JJM.  The answer is not the backup QB, who’s on his 6th team in 6 years.  JJM has had 2 games.  [b]That’s not a reasonable amount of time to judge any QB, especially a first time starter in the NFL. [/b]

'Hold my beer...' [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1160014229199474689/qPKPdYH2_200x200.jpg[/img]

Wow...am I ever on the opposite side of this issue.
JJM has had 1 quarter out of 8 where he played good ball.
Wentz has had a couple of caretaker games that we won, and the team shit the bed (errors/penalties...Steelers) where we did not.
He is nowhere near as athletic as JJM...I get that.
But I gotta say that he gives us a better chance to win (and JJM a better chance to learn), than JJM.
I'm not as smart as KOC, we all know that.
But to the Beagles, I gotta say go with Wentz...no small reason that Wentz has a chip on his shoulder towards Philly the size of the Lombardi Trophy.

Ask me after the kid actually returns to practice.

Montana Tom wrote:
Wow...am I ever on the opposite side of this issue. JJM has had 1 quarter out of 8 where he played good ball. Wentz has had a couple of caretaker games that we won, and the team shit the bed (errors/penalties...Steelers) where we did not. He is nowhere near as athletic as JJM...I get that. But I gotta say that he gives us a better chance to win (and JJM a better chance to learn), than JJM. I'm not as smart as KOC, we all know that. But to the Beagles, I gotta say go with Wentz...no small reason that Wentz has a chip on his shoulder towards Philly the size of the Lombardi Trophy.

I don't think you have to worry because JJM looks like a guy who can't stay off the injury list.  Wentz will be back out there sooner or later.

Montana Tom wrote:
Wow...am I ever on the opposite side of this issue. JJM has had 1 quarter out of 8 where he played good ball. Wentz has had a couple of caretaker games that we won, and the team shit the bed (errors/penalties...Steelers) where we did not. He is nowhere near as athletic as JJM...I get that. But I gotta say that he gives us a better chance to win (and JJM a better chance to learn), than JJM. I'm not as smart as KOC, we all know that. But to the Beagles, I gotta say go with Wentz...no small reason that Wentz has a chip on his shoulder towards Philly the size of the Lombardi Trophy.

McCarthy needs reps. McCarthy is the future. JJ isn't going to learn much watching Wentz. This is called developing a young QB, every team goes through the ups and downs. He's played a whopping 2 games in his career, first one on the road on MNF...which he won. Not sure how anyone watching Wentz play thinks he's going to beat Philadelphia...not sure how this is any kind of 'revenge' game for Carson considering how well the Eagles have done since he departed there. Daniels has played 20 games in his NFL career. 21 for Caleb Williams. 18 games for Maye. 20 for Nix. How else is McCarthy supposed to improve? I just don't get some of Viking Nation here. I see on this board fans complaining about KOC not winning playoff games, only wins during the regular season, etc....you think we are getting closer or farther away from that goal by sitting JJM and playing Wentz? Don't we need to find out what we have in him either way? What we found out is this wasn't a Porsche that JJM was going to be gently placed into the driver's seat in regardless of some of the hyperbole that this was a Superbowl level team. Its not.

StickierBuns wrote:

McCarthy needs reps. McCarthy is the future. JJ isn't going to learn much watching Wentz. This is called developing a young QB, every team goes through the ups and downs. He's played a whopping 2 games in his career, first one on the road on MNF...which he won. Not sure how anyone watching Wentz play thinks he's going to beat Philadelphia...not sure how this is any kind of 'revenge' game for Carson considering how well the Eagles have done since he departed there.

Daniels has played 20 games in his NFL career. 21 for Caleb Williams. 18 games for Maye. 20 for Nix. How else is McCarthy supposed to improve? I just don't get some of Viking Nation here. I see on this board fans complaining about KOC not winning playoff games, only wins during the regular season, etc....you think we are getting closer or farther away from that goal by sitting JJM and playing Wentz? Don't we need to find out what we have in him either way? What we found out is this wasn't a Porsche that JJM was going to be gently placed into the driver's seat in regardless of some of the hyperbole that this was a Superbowl level team. Its not.

Mostly agree, but I would argue that we know absolutely NOTHING about this team. It's still a Porsche; it's just in the shop. We just don't know what we have because the team we've been watching the last few weeks is not our team. You can't take 7 or 8 starters off a 22-man roster and expect to compete. Yet we have. We somehow have a winning record. 

I want to see what this team does when it rises to the level of an average amount of injuries. In other words, 2 or 3, not 7 or 8. I think that team might surprise some people.

If he needs reps (and he does) -- should have played him in pre-season.

PurplePorsche wrote:
If he needs reps (and he does) -- should have played him in pre-season.

You going to put the #1's on the OL out there in pre-season?  

Or, play JJM behind the 2's and 3's?  

This pivot NFL teams have done the last few pre-seasons is certainly controversial and the ramifications not fully understood. 

I agree it would have been ideal if JJM got more reps, but he looked to be getting on the horse by Q4 vs Bears too. 

The Falcons game was just a shitshow for everyone. The Birdies took the Vikings behind the woodshed and did bad things to them.

purplefaithful wrote:

You going to put the #1's on the OL out there in pre-season?  

Or, play JJM behind the 2's and 3's?  

This pivot NFL teams have done the last few pre-seasons is certainly controversial and the ramifications not fully understood. 

I agree it would have been ideal if JJM got more reps, but he looked to be getting on the horse by Q4 vs Bears too. 

The Falcons game was just a shitshow for everyone. The Birdies took the Vikings behind the woodshed and did bad things to them.

Yes I would have,  they needed the reps as much as the QB with 3 new starters ( 4 if you count LT ).  We had this discussion in August and they certainly have shown that they could have used more live reps in the off-season.  Perhaps our injuries wouldnt have been as plentiful if they had gotten more real work in the offseason?

purplefaithful wrote:

You going to put the #1's on the OL out there in pre-season?  

Or, play JJM behind the 2's and 3's?  

This pivot NFL teams have done the last few pre-seasons is certainly controversial and the ramifications not fully understood. 

I agree it would have been ideal if JJM got more reps, but he looked to be getting on the horse by Q4 vs Bears too. 

The Falcons game was just a shitshow for everyone. The Birdies took the Vikings behind the woodshed and did bad things to them.

I think you start guys in preseason based on their individual needs.  I wouldn’t be starting guys like Darrisaw coming off an injury or JJ who’s a vet.  I would be starting JJM behind whatever line we had playing.  I don’t think the risk of injury is that much higher behind a second string OLine going against a second string Defense.  There’s probably always going to be some sort of balance on injury risk vs being ready, but I think preseason snaps is probably worth it for a rookie QB.  It may not be full on defensive schemes, but the players will be moving at full speed.

That said I agree on the not over-worrying about the two games we got outschemed and heavily injured on.

Lol, well here's an interesting take from Mr Little Birdie...
==============================================

Charley Walters: Vikings may not be sold on J.J. McCarthy’s future

Charley WaltersOctober 4, 2025 at 1:56 PM CDT

It has to be incredibly frustrating for Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf, who spent more money ($345 million) than any of the other 31 NFL teams for a 2-2 start this season. The Vikings have been devastated by injuries to high-paid players.

Meanwhile, quarterback J.J. McCarthy, also injured, had been underwhelming except for one quarter before his high right ankle sprain. The Vikings won’t say it publicly, but at this juncture it’s a decent bet they wish they had kept Sam Darnold, who has led the Seattle Seahawks to a 3-1 start. Or signed Daniel Jones, whose Indianapolis Colts are 3-1 with him under center.

The Vikings could have franchise-tagged Darnold, 28, for one year at $37 million while providing McCarthy, 22, another year to develop. Also, insiders say Aaron Rodgers, 41, who beat the Vikings in Ireland last Sunday, nearly begged the Vikings to sign him before signing with the Pittsburgh Steelers, who are 3-1.

— Entering this season, the Vikings’ plan was to build a veteran roster to support McCarthy, who is expected to return as starter against the Philadelphia Eagles in Minneapolis after next week’s bye. By then, the Vikings should have an idea whether they can go forward with McCarthy or need to reevaluate their quarterback future.

For McCarthy, the rest of this season will be an audition. If he shows promise, the Vikings will continue to build around him. If he plays poorly, the Vikings may have to rethink their decision to draft him No. 10 overall two years ago and, depending on their 2026 draft position, maybe even take another quarterback in the first round.

The way it looks now, the Vikings’ first-round draft pick next year will be in the Nos. 10-12 range. 

Another QB route for the Vikings would be to sign a veteran more skilled than Carson Wentz with the understanding that McCarthy will need to compete for the starting job in 2026. Theoretically, believe it or not, that guy could be Kirk Cousins, 37, the backup in Atlanta. The Falcons do not have their first- or fifth-round picks in next year’s draft. The trade deadline is Nov. 4.

— Another potential free agent QB having a good season (4-1) is Mac Jones, who just turned 27, with the San Francisco 49ers.

In 2023, with the No. 4 pick in the draft, the Colts took Anthony Richardson. After two years of injuries and inconsistency, the Colts decided they would go into this season (year three) not merely handing the job to Richardson, but with open competition with Jones for the starting job, which Jones has won.

— The Vikings are fortunate they don’t have to face new Green Bay edge rusher Micah Parsons until Nov. 23. Through four games, Parsons leads the NFL in pass-rushing grade, per Pro Football Focus.

MaroonBells wrote:
Mostly agree, but I would argue that we know absolutely NOTHING about this team. It's still a Porsche; it's just in the shop. We just don't know what we have because the team we've been watching the last few weeks is not our team. You can't take 7 or 8 starters off a 22-man roster and expect to compete. Yet we have. We somehow have a winning record.  I want to see what this team does when it rises to the level of an average amount of injuries. In other words, 2 or 3, not 7 or 8. I think that team might surprise some people.

This might help: Eagles’ guard Landon Dickerson could miss multiple games with the ankle injury he suffered in the team’s loss to Denver, per @Jeff_McLane I'll say this: can't say its a Porsche unless it drives like one. Might look pretty on the outside, but what's under the hood? Can't say its a Porsche as we stand today.

StickierBuns wrote:
lol. Quite the world of sports 'news' we live in, isn't it?

A friend of a friend has an online podcast for sports (baseball)....he said that if he tweets a positive about a team/player, he'll get 5-15 likes/hearts. If he posts something negative, he'll get 90+ interactive responses easily, if not more. Every time, no matter the player or team, negative or outright wrong sensationalism wins the engagement game. There's zero incentive for him to try and put decent content out there because its so easy to get engagement with negativity which monetizes everything for him. I'm slowly weaning myself off of many things online for content I used to enjoy as far as sports information goes.

Thats a first cousin to there is no reward for compromise in politics anymore...I swear this country is energized by negativity more than anything these days.

purplefaithful wrote:
I agree it would have been ideal if JJM got more reps, but he looked to be getting on the horse by Q4 vs Bears too.  The Falcons game was just a shitshow for everyone. The Birdies took the Vikings behind the woodshed and did bad things to them.

This ^ The funny thing is if JJM plays well, everyone will be clamoring back on the bandwagon. The Falcons game sucked in every phase of the game. I'm just clamoring for him to PLAY. Then we can have a much larger subset to pull opinions from. I don't care if some fans already don't like McCarthy, everyone has an opinion, but the dude needs to get a bunch more reps before we can actually get a feel for anything.

We’ll see how things go, but I hear more and more people saying things like “I’m just not doing social media anymore, it’s just not contributing anything of value to my life” or “I have no idea what’s going on, I don’t pay attention to the news, it’s all just doom and gloom and I don’t need that in my life.”

So while there is definitely truth that content producers are making stuff that gets clicks and what not, and a lot of it is unconscious reactions from their audience, I think it’s a short sighted strategy, as eventually the consumers just put you on a blacklist and ignore your content after they get burned out from reacting to your rage bait (*cough* WNBA’s marketing strategy *cough*).

lol. Quite the world of sports 'news' we live in, isn't it?

A friend of a friend has an online podcast for sports (baseball)....he said that if he tweets a positive about a team/player or runs a good, thorough story, he'll get 5-15 likes/hearts/reposts. If he posts something negative/obviously sensational, he'll get 90+ interactive responses easily, if not more. Every time, no matter the player or team, negative or outright wrong sensationalism wins the engagement game by a country mile. There's zero incentive for him to try and put decent content out there because its so easy to get engagement with negativity which monetizes everything for him. I'm slowly weaning myself off of many things online for content I used to enjoy as far as sports information goes. He says many start out in this trying to be unbiased or reasoned, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And the bots or false accounts make up the majority of X (Twitter).

purplefaithful wrote:

Thats a first cousin to there is no reward for compromise in politics anymore...I swear this country is energized by negativity more than anything these days.

Negativity breeds engagement. But it's more than negativity, it's conflict. It's "the fight." Your guy might be a moron, but if he hates the same people you hate, you'll vote for him. I read the other day that a study found that between 50% and 80% of social media engagement is fake. Bots or people hired to stir the pot...to repost and promote rage, hate, conflict, violence and disinformation. I think that has a lot to do with why we seem to be blindly and cheerfully marching toward authoritarianism.

Can J.J. McCarthy execute the Carson Wentz quick passing game for the Vikings?

The Vikings’ quarterback conundrum, if we can call it that (and if the team is thinking of it that way), is a complicated and interlocking puzzle.

Some of it boils down to simple questions of the health and age of 22-year-old J.J. McCarthy and 32-year-old Carson Wentz, but even those factors get complicated by other issues.

McCarthy has missed the last three games and didn’t participate in any team practices while healing from an ankle injury suffered in the Vikings’ Week 2 loss to the Falcons.

Head coach Kevin O’Connell said McCarthy would get a lot of individual work this week during the bye and is expected to ramp up in team practices next week. But his health is still a question mark.

But it is for Wentz, too. He left Sunday’s 21-17 win with a left shoulder injury before returning after halftime and eventually leading the game-winning touchdown. O’Connell gave a Wentz update Monday and said he was “pretty sore.” That’s his non-throwing shoulder, but the injury could bear watching.

Wentz succeeded Sunday largely by executing a quick release passing game. That approach was necessitated by the Vikings’ injuries on the offensive line, which left them with just one healthy starter by the end of the game, but it also matched Wentz’s strengths as a veteran who can quickly diagnose a defense. Krammer described multiple plays on the final drive where Wentz made the sorts of quick decisions that McCarthy hasn’t shown he can make yet.

The Vikings should have a healthier set of offensive linemen when they return from the bye, but just how healthy remains to be seen. The question then becomes: If the Vikings want to turn things back over to McCarthy against the Eagles, is he able to execute the type of game plan they were giving Wentz?

And even if McCarthy can execute a read-and-react quick throw offense to a reasonable degree out of necessity behind a weakened offensive line, is that really the best thing for his long-term development? Of his multiple assets as a QB, making accurate throws on intermediate routes — patterns that require the offensive line to block longer than they would on quicker plays — is at or near the top.

O’Connell will have to shake out all these puzzle pieces and figure out how they fit together in time to play the defending Super Bowl champions.

STRIB

It's unreasonable and unrealistic to decide anything about JJM after 2 games. I don't know about whether or not Kelly is coming back but I do think the team has to prepare for life without him. Also comparing Wentz and JJM is absolutely ridiculous. It is important to figure out what happens with JJM. He was drafted for a reason. Even if they miss the playoffs with JJM. So what at this point. They have to know either way what he is capable of and which way the team can go. Idgaf about Wentz. I don't care about Jones/Darnold/Cousins either. I really want JJM to succeed but we won't know if he doesn't play