Can we put natural grass in the new stadium?

I misread the title as could we put natural gas in the stadium and my first thought was sure, just sell more chili at the concession stands.

@"Tom Moore" said: The field did not cause his injury.  Teddy's knee got hurt in a non contact drill.  It was not turf.  He literally was standing still and tossing a ball

the turf is not causing the issue.  The unnatural size of players is putting too much stress in joints and ligaments.  Meanwhile, Teddy's was a freak accident.  Eric Sugarman said his injury could have happened to any of us in our showers.  Scary

Then the league needs to put a cap on size. . Only people who are 6 feet and under 200 pounds should play in the N.F.L.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"NodakViking" said: I think the issue would be drainage and the associated humidity of the moisture necessary to keep it alive-I think the light issue is easy enough to overcome.

So if Teddy's injury was truly him just standing there tossing the ball it would explain how he has made a pretty quick and set back free(knock on wood) recovery.  I would think the potential for other more extensive damage would be lessened because the force being applied wasn't unusually extreme.

Drainage and humidity would be pretty simplegit actually.  A subsurface collection system like the one in target field and some commercial air exchangers,  problem solved.

@"NodakViking" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"NodakViking" said: I think the issue would be drainage and the associated humidity of the moisture necessary to keep it alive-I think the light issue is easy enough to overcome.

So if Teddy's injury was truly him just standing there tossing the ball it would explain how he has made a pretty quick and set back free(knock on wood) recovery.  I would think the potential for other more extensive damage would be lessened because the force being applied wasn't unusually extreme.

Drainage and humidity would be pretty simplegit actually.  A subsurface collection system like the one in target field and some commercial air exchangers,  problem solved.

I think the problem is the fields is below grade and they would have to pipe the excess to pumps to pump it up and out and none of that infrastructure is in place.  I brought it up when they released the design and was disappointed when it wasn't at least planned for.  I'm sure it would have added to the huge budget but how perfect would it be to walk in there in January(if they ever paly in January again) and have the smell of fresh cut grass and the warm sunshine shining in(if the sun ever comes out there).  Hell they could probably just sell tickets to experience that on the off days.

The Packers play on natural grass and led the league in injuries like 5 seasons ago...  I don't think the artificial turf had anything to do with Dalvin's knee injury.

Not trying to be a jerk, but this seems like fan conspiracy theory type stuff...  It seems much more plausible that it's a result from over training and/or players having too much muscle for their bodies to handle in a physical sport.

@"Wetlander" said: The Packers play on natural grass and led the league in injuries like 5 seasons ago...  I don't think the artificial turf had anything to do with Dalvin's knee injury.

Not trying to be a jerk, but this seems like fan conspiracy theory type stuff...  It seems much more plausible that it's a result from over training and/or players having too much muscle for their bodies to handle in a physical sport.

Well I can tell you from walking on that field several times that my terrible knees would love walking on that stuff a hell of a lot more than walking on a natural field.

It’s a little disingenuous to suggest that Bridgewaters knee
went down while merely standing there. 
He was in the middle of dropping back when he went down.  Not exactly a huge athletic burden, but not the
same as standing stationary in the shower.

I do agree that athletes body compositions are trending
towards gaining muscle faster than the ligaments and tendons can strengthen to
handle the extra load, but I don’t think that excuses the turf as a
factor.  This is something that should be
able to be shown by statistics and studies. 
There appears to be conflicting study results, one on the NFL which
shows increased risk of knee and ankle injuries on turn, and others showing no
difference but in high school and colleges. 
I also think people are thinking about turf wrong.  I don’t think that because Mike’s knees feel cushy
exerting forces in a vertical direction, we can assume that players who are exerting
lateral and rotational forces on their ankles and knees while cutting and planting
their legs in the turf are experiencing the same level of cushiness.  Most football and soccer players prefer grass
and mention that their cleats stick more in the field turf and slip more in
grass, which lowers the forces on the joints. 
Similarly, I don’t think it’s accurate to assume that when grass fields turn
to crap, that they increase injuries.  I
think it’s the opposite that happens.  I
think players slip and fall down a more, but that’s not what’s causing these
catastrophic non-contact injuries.  I’d
be curious to see what happens if they could would replace a portion of the
rubber pellets with something that’s a little less grippy.  Could they better simulate real grass if half
the pellets were plastic beads rather than just rubber?

Similarly, the studies need to do a better job of
differentiating contact and non-contact injuries.  I don’t think contact injuries are really
applicable to what we’re talking about.  Contact
injuries in my mind are likely caused primarily by the contact and less by the
turf.  Whereas non-contact injuries are
purely an interaction between the players and the turf.

One thing I think about that most people don’t seem to
mention is pre-existing injuries.  If I
was an NFL GM, I would be very liberal with getting these guys X-Rays and MRIs
to try and detect partial tears or any other structural damage.  Maybe the teams are, but I don’t hear too much
about guys getting these tests unless something catastrophic happens.  I think Tom’s point that the overly developed
musculature being the driving factor in these injuries is only exacerbated when
the ligament is weakened from a previous injury.  That probably isn’t an issue with Cook, but
it could be with Bridgewater.

Right medaille, it's the additional friction provided by the artificial turf that can be so dangerous.  If the player's shoe doesn't give out and slide, then all of that additional lateral force is being transferred to the athletes' ankles, knees, etc.  If the force is great enough and the shoe doesn't slip, the weakest ligaments are usually the next to give.

Agree with Medaille completely. More studies are needed, but playing on grass should lead to less lower extremity injuries. A player can get bigger, stronger, and faster, but their ligaments don't change much.
Make them play in sand and the injuries would likely go down, though we know that won't happen.
The speed of players today is probably a factor as well. I don't seem to remember the number of non contact ligament tears we see today, happening in the old days.

@"jargomcfargo" said: Agree with Medaille completely. More studies are needed, but playing on grass should lead to less lower extremity injuries. A player can get bigger, stronger, and faster, but their ligaments don't change much. Make them play in sand and the injuries would likely go down, though we know that won't happen. The speed of players today is probably a factor as well. I don't seem to remember the number of non contact ligament tears we see today, happening in the old days.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Agree with Medaille completely. More studies are needed, but playing on grass should lead to less lower extremity injuries. A player can get bigger, stronger, and faster, but their ligaments don't change much. Make them play in sand and the injuries would likely go down, though we know that won't happen. The speed of players today is probably a factor as well. I don't seem to remember the number of non contact ligament tears we see today, happening in the old days.

Even down at the lower levels.  I think some of the blame should go to point that kids are getting pushed into strength programs way to early these days.  I knew a personal trainer/body builder and he never let his kids work the weights much until they were nearly through puberty and had reached near full grown.   Lucky for those kids they reached their max early and they turned into pretty big kids,  but he swore up and down that growing is enough strain on ligaments and joints without the added workload of a strength program.  His boys worked put,  but never with max weights.  More resistance and conditioning types of lifts.

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Agree with Medaille completely. More studies are needed, but playing on grass should lead to less lower extremity injuries. A player can get bigger, stronger, and faster, but their ligaments don't change much. Make them play in sand and the injuries would likely go down, though we know that won't happen. The speed of players today is probably a factor as well. I don't seem to remember the number of non contact ligament tears we see today, happening in the old days.

Even down at the lower levels.  I think some of the blame should go to point that kids are getting pushed into strength programs way to early these days.  I knew a personal trainer/body builder and he never let his kids work the weights much until they were nearly through puberty and had reached near full grown.   Lucky for those kids they reached their max early and they turned into pretty big kids,  but he swore up and down that growing is enough strain on ligaments and joints without the added workload of a strength program.  His boys worked put,  but never with max weights.  More resistance and conditioning types of lifts.

The American Academy of Pediatrics state that prepubescent children derive beneficial effects from weight/resistance training involving cardiovascular fitness, body composition, bone mineral density, cholesterol profiles, and mental health. Before puberty they increase strength through nerve recruitment instead of muscle hypertrophy which occurs under the hormonal influence of puberty. There is even some evidence of increased ligament and tendon strength after 3-6 months, in some studies. They recommend strict supervision by certified trainers and medical screening to eliminate risks. They also say young children should not be doing maximal lifts or heavy training. Personally, I doubt any significant difference would occur if the child waited until puberty to begin. But it's a personal choice I guess. More specific to this thread, there are studies that indicate anabolic steroid use can cause some collagen changes that make ligaments and tendons weaker. That is one more thing to consider.